TX - 'Lori Ruff', Longview, WhtFem UP9863, *General Discussion and Theories* #1

[HerStory]

How about I piggy-back this one? LOL

1) Thomas Quinn's life sounds interesting, in relation to *some* potential relevance to FLEK.

Sherwood.... I actually have been asked to write a book. I also gave my first workshop on it at a college seven hours away last fall. I was so proud.

 

[Tulessa]

To me, it actually seems like she has a lot of natural wave/curls. I am Native American and have very wavy thick hair. Back in the 80s, I remember getting perms to straighten my hair. The 90s gave us commercial straighteners that still left some waves, then the 2000s gave us chis and ceramics. I can almost see how FLEK's hair goes through those same transitions.

Natural wave/curls?

Cherokee here! We spend our entire lives trying to straighten our hair, while others buy perms! :floorlaugh:

 

[SideKick]

Cherokee here! We spend our entire lives trying to straighten our hair, while others buy perms! :floorlaugh:

Tulessa, you are too cute!
SK

 

[Laughing]

You don't have to be Cherokee! We're Irish, my sister straightened while I tried to curl.

Practically lived in electric rollers to wear a Farah Fawcett.

The '80's, sigh.

 

[sloane7777]

You don't have to be Cherokee! We're Irish, my sister straightened while I tried to curl.

Practically lived in electric rollers to wear a Farah Fawcett.

The '80's, sigh.

ha! im both and I have an almost an afro! :floorlaugh:

 

[docbh]

LEK is sort of the case that brought me to Websleuths and without anything new in awhile I thought I'd post a few thoughts. I've tried to keep up with all the threads, but I may have missed something, so apologies for any unintentional rehashing. There will be some intentional rehashing.

I spent the 90's in Dallas and Austin and can't get over the sensation that LEK looks familiar to me, unsure why that is, I get that feeling sometimes without a good reason, maybe she just has a familiar face, but the picture of her in the sweater looks very familiar to me for some reason. Useless, I know. Maybe that's another reason I'm drawn to this case.

It seems entirely possible that anyone who knew her before she swapped identities could be dead, or not want that association to be known. I know someone mentioned her love of Cuban food might tie her to Miami/FL... I don't know how much Florida sleuthing has been done, but looking at a map of Cuban populations in the US, seems a high % in Southern California as well.

Mostly, I wonder about the DNA... I wonder what sort of baseline sequencing they do and maybe some experienced people around here can help. I'm sure they're doing STRs (short tandem repeats) and the like to do direct comparisons in matching people with unknowns. I wonder in LEK because they mention this cardiac disease related gene. I wonder if it is possible to contact a company like 23andme, and if they've ever helped in these "unidentified" cases. 23andme does a whole genome single nucleotide polymorphism (SNP) array of over 500k distinct SNPs. They then have a "relative finder" service that will compare your profile to other customers. I've found verifiable 3rd cousins by doing this, it could possibly provide some surnames or other hints as to her true identity. It will also give you maternal haplogroup (probably known from STRs) and some data on ethnic heritage which might be useful. As more and more people have their genomes sequenced, there is some evidence that "surname inference" may be very easily achieved from whole genome sequencing data.

Also certain communities that are big into geneology have been extensively sequenced, particularly in Utah. Given some of the theories related to different groups she might have come from, in this case it might be particularly useful. I'd be interested in any Marfan's related screening as well.

Also, related to implant serial numbers, I know someone asked if they would've been checked at autopsy. I doubt it. I don't have any forensic autopsy experience, but I have attended some medical autopsies and in general, the extremities are given a surface examination but not dissected without a very specific reason. Now when implants are removed, any surgical hardware, it is often sent to histology for a gross identification and logging of serial numbers, but not at autopsy. Only hardware I remember identifying in an autopsy were pacemakers.

Just a few random thoughts. A very haunting mystery, this case is... so much information yet we still don't know the story.

 

[sloane7777]

LEK is sort of the case that brought me to Websleuths and without anything new in awhile I thought I'd post a few thoughts. I've tried to keep up with all the threads, but I may have missed something, so apologies for any unintentional rehashing. There will be some intentional rehashing.

I spent the 90's in Dallas and Austin and can't get over the sensation that LEK looks familiar to me, unsure why that is, I get that feeling sometimes without a good reason, maybe she just has a familiar face, but the picture of her in the sweater looks very familiar to me for some reason. Useless, I know. Maybe that's another reason I'm drawn to this case.

It seems entirely possible that anyone who knew her before she swapped identities could be dead, or not want that association to be known. I know someone mentioned her love of Cuban food might tie her to Miami/FL... I don't know how much Florida sleuthing has been done, but looking at a map of Cuban populations in the US, seems a high % in Southern California as well.

Mostly, I wonder about the DNA... I wonder what sort of baseline sequencing they do and maybe some experienced people around here can help. I'm sure they're doing STRs (short tandem repeats) and the like to do direct comparisons in matching people with unknowns. I wonder in LEK because they mention this cardiac disease related gene. I wonder if it is possible to contact a company like 23andme, and if they've ever helped in these "unidentified" cases. 23andme does a whole genome single nucleotide polymorphism (SNP) array of over 500k distinct SNPs. They then have a "relative finder" service that will compare your profile to other customers. I've found verifiable 3rd cousins by doing this, it could possibly provide some surnames or other hints as to her true identity. It will also give you maternal haplogroup (probably known from STRs) and some data on ethnic heritage which might be useful. As more and more people have their genomes sequenced, there is some evidence that "surname inference" may be very easily achieved from whole genome sequencing data.

Also certain communities that are big into geneology have been extensively sequenced, particularly in Utah. Given some of the theories related to different groups she might have come from, in this case it might be particularly useful. I'd be interested in any Marfan's related screening as well.

Also, related to implant serial numbers, I know someone asked if they would've been checked at autopsy. I doubt it. I don't have any forensic autopsy experience, but I have attended some medical autopsies and in general, the extremities are given a surface examination but not dissected without a very specific reason. Now when implants are removed, any surgical hardware, it is often sent to histology for a gross identification and logging of serial numbers, but not at autopsy. Only hardware I remember identifying in an autopsy were pacemakers.

Just a few random thoughts. A very haunting mystery, this case is... so much information yet we still don't know the story.

FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND THERE WAS NO AUTOPSY???? AND SHE WAS CREMATED RIGHT? I AM GONNA GO LOOK THAT UP AGAIN:facepalm:

 

[docbh]

FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND THERE WAS NO AUTOPSY???? AND SHE WAS CREMATED RIGHT? I AM GONNA GO LOOK THAT UP AGAIN:facepalm:

You are correct. I went back and rechecked ClaireNC's excellent info summary and there was no autopsy. I just remember someone asked about the possibility that serial numbers were pulled at autopsy... sorry, answered a question about something not directly relevant. Also, yes, believe she was cremated.

In Texas, in general, the medical examiner has to review suicides and decide if they want to perform a forensic autopsy or not, sounds like as this was a seemingly straight forward GSW to the head they decided to pass.

 

[Owutatangledweb]

I know there are so many theories floating around in the threads regarding LEK; so, just to add another one, I've been reading about suspected gypsy kidnappings! Boy, are they an interesting bunch!

 

[neesaki]

You are correct. I went back and rechecked ClaireNC's excellent info summary and there was no autopsy. I just remember someone asked about the possibility that serial numbers were pulled at autopsy... sorry, answered a question about something not directly relevant. Also, yes, believe she was cremated.

In Texas, in general, the medical examiner has to review suicides and decide if they want to perform a forensic autopsy or not, sounds like as this was a seemingly straight forward GSW to the head they decided to pass.

I find it troubling that they didn't do an autopsy, and am surprised that it's not standard protocol under these circumstances. What if she had a brain tumor or some rare disorder or terminal illness that she was trying to hide. And if not standard protocol, why would LE or the family have not insisted on it? I guess I don't deal with incompetence very well, which is what this is, imo. Just find it to be very frustrating.

 

[Sherwood Park]

I find it troubling that they didn't do an autopsy, and am surprised that it's not standard protocol under these circumstances. What if she had a brain tumor or some rare disorder or terminal illness that she was trying to hide. And if not standard protocol, why would LE or the family have not insisted on it? I guess I don't deal with incompetence very well, which is what this is, imo. Just find it to be very frustrating.

There was no need for an autopsy. There was nothing suspicious to LE or the family. A forensic autopsy is for finding out the cause and manner of death. In this case they already know the cause. Brain tumor, disease or illness in this case was not a cause of death and therefore no reason to do an autopsy.

A family cannot demand a forensic autopsy without a reason for doing so. Families are more than welcome to pay for a regular autopsy with their own funds if they are not satisfied with the stated cause or manner of death.

Autopsies cost money and in certain cases can take a few months for results.

 

[Sherwood Park]

I know there are so many theories floating around in the threads regarding LEK; so, just to add another one, I've been reading about suspected gypsy kidnappings! Boy, are they an interesting bunch!

Where are these kidnappings? There are Romani people all over the world. Do you specifically mean the U.S. ?

Who is doing the kidnapping, who is the kidnapped?

It would be quite a stretch for her to be Romani. If she was, I think she would be discovered fairly quickly. So far there have been zero connections linking FLEK to the Romani culture.

The closest "group" that searches keep unofficially connecting her to are LDS.

 

[docbh]

There was no need for an autopsy. There was nothing suspicious to LE or the family. A forensic autopsy is for finding out the cause and manner of death. In this case they already know the cause. Brain tumor, disease or illness in this case was not a cause of death and therefore no reason to do an autopsy.

A family cannot demand a forensic autopsy without a reason for doing so. Families are more than welcome to pay for a regular autopsy with their own funds if they are not satisfied with the stated cause or manner of death.

Autopsies cost money and in certain cases can take a few months for results.

Spot on for all of these points. ME would only be interested if there was some question as to homicide vs. suicide or the like. Given the manner and mechanism and all the suicide notes and her mental state, really no doubt in this case.

 

[Sherwood Park]

LEK is sort of the case that brought me to Websleuths and without anything new in awhile I thought I'd post a few thoughts. I've tried to keep up with all the threads, but I may have missed something, so apologies for any unintentional rehashing. There will be some intentional rehashing.

I spent the 90's in Dallas and Austin and can't get over the sensation that LEK looks familiar to me, unsure why that is, I get that feeling sometimes without a good reason, maybe she just has a familiar face, but the picture of her in the sweater looks very familiar to me for some reason. Useless, I know. Maybe that's another reason I'm drawn to this case.

It seems entirely possible that anyone who knew her before she swapped identities could be dead, or not want that association to be known. I know someone mentioned her love of Cuban food might tie her to Miami/FL... I don't know how much Florida sleuthing has been done, but looking at a map of Cuban populations in the US, seems a high % in Southern California as well.

Mostly, I wonder about the DNA... I wonder what sort of baseline sequencing they do and maybe some experienced people around here can help. I'm sure they're doing STRs (short tandem repeats) and the like to do direct comparisons in matching people with unknowns. I wonder in LEK because they mention this cardiac disease related gene. I wonder if it is possible to contact a company like 23andme, and if they've ever helped in these "unidentified" cases. 23andme does a whole genome single nucleotide polymorphism (SNP) array of over 500k distinct SNPs. They then have a "relative finder" service that will compare your profile to other customers. I've found verifiable 3rd cousins by doing this, it could possibly provide some surnames or other hints as to her true identity. It will also give you maternal haplogroup (probably known from STRs) and some data on ethnic heritage which might be useful. As more and more people have their genomes sequenced, there is some evidence that "surname inference" may be very easily achieved from whole genome sequencing data.

Also certain communities that are big into geneology have been extensively sequenced, particularly in Utah. Given some of the theories related to different groups she might have come from, in this case it might be particularly useful. I'd be interested in any Marfan's related screening as well.

Also, related to implant serial numbers, I know someone asked if they would've been checked at autopsy. I doubt it. I don't have any forensic autopsy experience, but I have attended some medical autopsies and in general, the extremities are given a surface examination but not dissected without a very specific reason. Now when implants are removed, any surgical hardware, it is often sent to histology for a gross identification and logging of serial numbers, but not at autopsy. Only hardware I remember identifying in an autopsy were pacemakers.

Just a few random thoughts. A very haunting mystery, this case is... so much information yet we still don't know the story.

They've already looked for whatever they were interested in finding from her DNA. They've already logged her DNA with one of those genealogy programs, once someone submits a matching DNA they'll all be notified.

They've already said that LEK's breast implants didn't have serial numbers (not as common back then) and her implants were inserted after her identity change. (Unfortunately)

I still support the detectives best theory, that at this point it'll take someone recognizing her picture and coming forward with information. I personally think there is someone out there that recognizes her. Why they won't come forward, who knows.

If this mystery isn't solved by the time LEK's daughter is an adult, I would bet my last dollar that she will end up doing a more aggressive search for her mother's true identity.

 

[docbh]

They've already looked for whatever they were interested in finding from her DNA. They've already logged her DNA with one of those genealogy programs, once someone submits a matching DNA they'll all be notified.

Right, but the most common techniques for doing identifications involve sequencing short tandem repeats (STR) and that's great for identifying identical matches or first degree relatives, mitochondrial DNA can give maternal haplotype. That's all fine, but it is somewhat low resolution. 23andme uses an area to identify 500k single nucleotide polymorphisms and screens for a variety of health related genes as well as feeds into a large user database search called "relative finder" ... You can identify distant relations this way, and it might provide some clues to surname. If you were really lucky you might find a sibling she didn't know she had...

I guess I'm urging that a higher resolution sequencing technique might give Velling a break but not sure how far outside the box this is...

They've already said that LEK's breast implants didn't have serial numbers (not as common back then) and her implants were inserted after her identity change. (Unfortunately)

I still support the detectives best theory, that at this point it'll take someone recognizing her picture and coming forward with information. I personally think there is someone out there that recognizes her. Why they won't come forward, who knows.

If this mystery isn't solved by the time LEK's daughter is an adult, I would bet my last dollar that she will end up doing a more aggressive search for her mother's true identity.

I figure anyone who knew her before either doesn't want to talk or has passed on... I am partial to the LDS theories because of the sort of common Marfanoid habitus and the likelihood that anyone associated with her past might not care to talk to authorities.

 

[danilee]

When referring to LDS, are you meaning FLDS? The fundamentalists? That makes the most sense, since those people don't watch television, and are sheltered from the outside world.

 

[sloane7777]

When referring to LDS, are you meaning FLDS? The fundamentalists? That makes the most sense, since those people don't watch television, and are sheltered from the outside world.

Heres the thing, I do these random Survey Thursday things at work for fun(our office is a blast) and I work with very intelligent people there are a couple of CPA's several attorneys, etc. everyone has a degree if not a PHD here out of peeps I included some missing , un Id, and unsolved, in a few of these surveys, in the last my survey was a quick synopsis (sp) of this case and my survey was had anyone heard of this ????? I am in Dallas most of us have been here for at least yrs if not longer NO ONE!!!!! not even the news buffs have heard of this case!!!!!! I myself have never seen this except here! So in the scheme of things people just dont know unless it gets "press" and its not going to, so I dont think even if she wasnt FLDS many peeps know about this, decreasing her chances of being identified!:banghead:makes me nuts!

 

[sloane7777]

I find it troubling that they didn't do an autopsy, and am surprised that it's not standard protocol under these circumstances. What if she had a brain tumor or some rare disorder or terminal illness that she was trying to hide. And if not standard protocol, why would LE or the family have not insisted on it? I guess I don't deal with incompetence very well, which is what this is, imo. Just find it to be very frustrating.

Exactly! I find it extremely troubling as well, esp since she was in the midst (or end of a divorce with custody issues, you would think that would be procedure!!!!! I would say rule of thumb if any court action is filed on an individual and there is enough conflict for the court to have to step in and resolve and one of the parties dies AUTOPSY!!!! geeze, can anyone say "DUH" Im not saying that the R's had anything to do with it, but if anything came out later and testing needed to be done, she's ashes now, no opportunity

 

[docbh]

When referring to LDS, are you meaning FLDS? The fundamentalists? That makes the most sense, since those people don't watch television, and are sheltered from the outside world.

Yes, sorry for the confusion. Apparently there was a group tied to an Ervil Lebaron who was part of an FLDS group based in Mexico that carried out some killings, in particular in 1988. Some of the members of the group (and other FLDS groups) have been said to have a similar Marfanoid appearance to LEK, that is, tall, long fingers, etc. Also many of his former followers remain in hiding for fear of retribution. It is a really interesting possibility.

Wikipedia entry: Ervil LeBaron - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[docbh]

Im not saying that the R's had anything to do with it, but if anything came out later and testing needed to be done, she's ashes now, no opportunity

You have to look at it from the perspective of the ME, and common things being common. You have someone with what looks to be a self-inflicted gunshot wound to the head inside a vehicle - not particularly easy to "stage". The individual has known mental health issues and has been in an apparent state of decline. You have not one but two lengthy suicide notes written in her own hand to her exhusband and daughter. No doubt they took into consideration the position of the weapon in the vehicle and they might have tested her hand for gunshot residue. It is pretty straight forward. This is classic "When you hear hoof-beats, look for horses and not zebras." If she was previously happy, healthy, successful, no note, shot in bed or someplace more accessible, or overdosed, something with more of a potential for staging... you might have something. Given her apparent trajectory, the outcome is sadly not particularly surprising or uncommon.

The cremation while frustrating isn't too surprising either, given the manner of death. Also I haven't seen any indication if it is what Lori expressed she wanted. In some ways, it allows her to hide even in death - more so than a cemetery.