TX - 'Lori Ruff', Longview, WhtFem UP9863, *General Discussion and Theories* #2

[evafiore]

Not directing this at anyone specifically, but more FWIW:


I'm 6'0 and 137 pounds, fluctuating between 125 and 145 in the last 15 years. When I grew 1 inch between ages 20 and 21, I was told that this was EXTREMELY unusual. I am well informed of Marfan's syndrome, and FLEK does not display anything of that other than being tall. Although it's possible that there was some sort of bureaucratic error between FLEK's original identity and her physical details at death, unless the face is a spitting image, I think it's ridiculous to say that MAYBE she grew 4-8 inches in a few years, in her late teens or early twenties. Some knowledge of illustration tells me that most of the proposed identities based on certain facial or physical characteristics on this thread are WAY OFF, unless she had a face transplant.

I'm leaning toward this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unreported_missing
http://www.outpostforhope.org/faq/4...ssing-missing-persons-are-there-in-the-us.pdf

A lot more likely than growing 4+inches and/or bureaucratic error, plus a face job, IMHO.

 

[StarrChance]

Why are people calling her FLEK?

If you go to the first page of this thread, post #2 explains the different uses. From memory a poster used "false" or "fake" which seemed to stick!

 

[StarrChance]

Has Jackie Kay Boyer ever been discussed as a possibility here? There isn't much known about her disappearance. I see some similarities: shape of mouth and front teeth, slightly upturned nose, dimple on right cheek.View attachment 79115

The eye shape is quite similar, the dentals are available so would be a easy rule out?

http://doenetwork.org/cases/3016dfca.html

 

[Magnum P.E.]

Why are people calling her FLEK?

Early on, long before the Seattle Times article, we thought that Lori Erica Kennedy was a stolen identity rather than an invention. There were several Lori Erica Kennedys around. I got tired of repeatedly typing the full name, and proposed the acronym FLEK for Fake Lori Erica Kennedy. It stuck, and BTW saved a lot of people a lot of typing.

If only Huffington Post would put FLEK's 1988 picture on the front page, maybe in place of the usual daily insignificant story on the Kardashians, someone could recognize her. Until then, it is, "she escaped from a cult/abusive relationship/whatever" by growing 6 inches after the age that women do not grow, and by completely changing her face and DNA.

 

[toronto_allie]

Not directing this at anyone specifically, but more FWIW:


I'm 6'0 and 137 pounds, fluctuating between 125 and 145 in the last 15 years. When I grew 1 inch between ages 20 and 21, I was told that this was EXTREMELY unusual. I am well informed of Marfan's syndrome, and FLEK does not display anything of that other than being tall. Although it's possible that there was some sort of bureaucratic error between FLEK's original identity and her physical details at death, unless the face is a spitting image, I think it's ridiculous to say that MAYBE she grew 4-8 inches in a few years, in her late teens or early twenties. Some knowledge of illustration tells me that most of the proposed identities based on certain facial or physical characteristics on this thread are WAY OFF, unless she had a face transplant.

I'm leaning toward this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unreported_missing
http://www.outpostforhope.org/faq/4...ssing-missing-persons-are-there-in-the-us.pdf

A lot more likely than growing 4+inches and/or bureaucratic error, plus a face job, IMHO.

Thanks for this - I am much, much shorter than 6' so I didn't really know what weight would be in the ballpark for Lori. Whether it's a clerical error or she fibbed the numbers, I think the description on the id is a huge red herring - I don't mean to discredit any part of the sleuthing people are doing but to me it seems inconsequential.

I too think most of the identities people bring up regarding Lori are really, really off. There are a few that seem close but it's still obvious they aren't her. I agree that HuffPost or some other site should run a front page story because it's like finding a needle in a haystack. I strongly believe there was no missing person report so what are we going to do, search every yearbook from every city or even state mentioned in the case? That will probably just bring us back to a bunch of photos of women who look similar to her but aren't actually her.

I posted in the Becky Sue Turner thread about it, but I think the closest resemblance we've found is Mr. Turner, Becky's dad.

 

[Sherwood Park]

Thanks for this - I am much, much shorter than 6' so I didn't really know what weight would be in the ballpark for Lori. Whether it's a clerical error or she fibbed the numbers, I think the description on the id is a huge red herring - I don't mean to discredit any part of the sleuthing people are doing but to me it seems inconsequential.

I too think most of the identities people bring up regarding Lori are really, really off. There are a few that seem close but it's still obvious they aren't her. I agree that HuffPost or some other site should run a front page story because it's like finding a needle in a haystack. I strongly believe there was no missing person report so what are we going to do, search every yearbook from every city or even state mentioned in the case? That will probably just bring us back to a bunch of photos of women who look similar to her but aren't actually her.

I posted in the Becky Sue Turner thread about it, but I think the closest resemblance we've found is Mr. Turner, Becky's dad.

I'm still wondering if there is a way to ask Mr. Turner if he would be willing to take a DNA test so they can compare it to FLEK's. Could investigators approach him and say, "Hi, we think FLEK could possibly be your daughter or some close relative. Do you mind if we take your DNA and test it against hers?"

 

[DJmultiplecats]

I agree with Evafiore, none of the proposed matches could possibly be FLEK. She doesn't look like she has Marfans to me either. There are lots of tall women in the world.

Reaching out to BST's father might be helpful. I personally don't think they're related, but he might have theories about the case.

 

[DJmultiplecats]

Has Jackie Kay Boyer ever been discussed as a possibility here? There isn't much known about her disappearance. I see some similarities: shape of mouth and front teeth, slightly upturned nose, dimple on right cheek.Attachment 79115

Sassy, check out the latest discussion on the yearbook thread. I don't think Jackie looks like FLEK, but she does look like a girl they're discussing there!

 

[Chuz Life]

I know that it just drives some sleuthers crazy, to see continued comparisons being made between LEKR and MPs who have already been "excluded." However, I hope we can all appreciate the fact that it's part of the process. We all have gut feelings and some of them are very strong. Speaking only for myself, there is no amount of ridicule or displays of indignation from others that will sway me from considering a possible match. As I shared here several weeks ago, MP Denise Sheehy's sister has recently traveled to Texas to try to help with a possible match to a UID. I do not know if that UID was LEKR. The results of that effort have not been released yet. Hopefully, the results will not take much longer and we will have some answers in (at least one of) their cases.

Until such a time when I feel Denise Sheehy has been excluded by both Dental records and DNA, I will consider the match to be plausible. . . simply because of the physical resemblances between Denise's images and LEKR's and also the resemblances between those images and those of Denise Sheehy's surviving sister (Lorraine).

 

[toronto_allie]

I'm still wondering if there is a way to ask Mr. Turner if he would be willing to take a DNA test so they can compare it to FLEK's. Could investigators approach him and say, "Hi, we think FLEK could possibly be your daughter or some close relative. Do you mind if we take your DNA and test it against hers?"

I personally don't think that would be taken well by the family, regardless of what the situation might be, but if anything it would at least rule the "related to the Turners" possiblility out. Best case scenario of a Turner test is that the DNA matches somehow and Velling has a much narrower field of focus.

Okay. How tall do you believe she was in 1988?

That tells me that you agree that LEK could have still been growing well after she reached the age that Denise Sheehy went missing. 16.

I'm sorry - I didn't see this earlier Chuz Life. Personally I think that yes, she could have been growing after age 16 but not after age 18/19 which is closer to the time Lori got her Idaho ID. I'm not sure why her growing after age 16 is in question as she wasn't 16 when she got the Idaho ID.

I think it's a moot point to speculate on her actual height in 1988 because of the variants that could be happening... clerical error (I think the 5'6" and 5'9" swap could be a likely explanation) or her fibbing on the details are two very possible reasons the 5'6" information doesn't fit in nicely. Like I said before - red herring. At least in my opinion. We keep going round and round when I think most people are in agreement that there are plenty of reasons why her height may have been fudged on the ID.

Is there someone at NAMUS you could call to see what tests were done? I've never submitted a match or anything so I'm not sure what the protocol is.

 

[dvo]

I shared this comparison in the yearbook searches and wrote a bit more explanation on my thinking there, but I hope it's okay if I share it in this much-more-active thread as well, just in the hopes of getting more feedback. The first photo is KS in 1980, the second in 1981 in a Redding, CA high school yearbook. Thank you in advance for taking a look/adding your thoughts!

 

[Chuz Life]

This has been a great exchange, Toronto because you obviously put a lot of thought into things before you post. I appreciate the chance to respond to your concerns and questions.

I'm sorry - I didn't see this earlier Chuz Life. Personally I think that yes, she (LEK) could have been growing after age 16 but not after age 18/19 which is closer to the time Lori got her Idaho ID.

Okay, this tells me that you believe that FLEKR was reporting her age accurately at the time she got her Idaho ID. I, and a lot of other people (including investigators and her FLEKR's family) believe that she was "much older" than what she claimed.

"She was muchhttp://www.oregonherald.com/bnews/story.htm?id=637 older than that," he said. "I think she was born sometime between 1960 and 1968."

I'm not sure why her growing after age 16 is in question as she wasn't 16 when she got the Idaho ID.

I see. I introduced that point because sixteen was the age that MP Denise Sheehy was when she went missing in 1970. When I first submitted Denise as a possible match to FLEK, some were quick to point out the obvious difference between their (reported) heights.

So, we have an MP (Denise Sheehy) reported missing at the age of 16 in 1970 - with the reported height of 62 - 63 inches. *She was "much older" than FLEKR claimed to be.

And we have our UID (FLEKR) who applies for and Idaho ID in 1988, claiming to be 19 years old and 66 inches tall. On FLEKR's 1990 Passport Application, FLEKR claimed the height of 5'11" (71 inches.) *I'm inclined to believe the height reported on that application is closer to the truth because of the consequences of reporting it wrong on that application.

The challenge (for me) is to see if there is any way possible that they can be one and the same person and to do that, I have to have a realistic idea of how much MP (Denise Sheehy) may have grown between the age of 16, when she went missing in 1970 and the year 1988 - when FLEKR assumed her false ID.

There is about 7 inches difference in height to be accounted for and the question of how much a young girl might continue to grow (even with a growth disorder) between the ages of 16 (Denise's age in 1970) and 34; the "much older" age that Denise would have been in 1988.

I think it's a moot point to speculate on her actual height in 1988 because of the variants that could be happening... clerical error (I think the 5'6" and 5'9" swap could be a likely explanation) or her fibbing on the details are two very possible reasons the 5'6" information doesn't fit in nicely.

Hopefully, you can follow my reasoning above and see why I don't feel it's a moot point when you are trying to include or to exclude a possible match.

Is there someone at NAMUS you could call to see what tests were done? I've never submitted a match or anything so I'm not sure what the protocol is.

I suppose it is possible. However, I did not receive a very friendly nor cooperative response the last time I tried.

 

[Linda9681]

I shared this comparison in the yearbook searches and wrote a bit more explanation on my thinking there, but I hope it's okay if I share it in this much-more-active thread as well, just in the hopes of getting more feedback. The first photo is KS in 1980, the second in 1981 in a Redding, CA high school yearbook. Thank you in advance for taking a look/adding your thoughts!

View attachment 79298

Who is this?


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[Linda9681]

A thought in the "reported DL height"... When I was investigating border crime and we had a lady who had about 20 drivers IDs made, she would fix her hair different, wear different makeup, report her hair/eye color differently and different height. She also had different variations of her name. The DL person who was our contact said they were NOT allowed to question when someone did this. She then handed out her DLs and IDs to illegals to come across the border as a " visitor" then they vanished.( assumed other IDs). The DL staff are instructed to just do the job, not be investigators. So FLEK could have put anything on ANY DL and nobody would question. Personally I think she did it purposefully.


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[Linda9681]

Anyone on here know SHORTHAND? I was reading something the other day my grandmother wrote when she was alive. Mixed in with regular writing was some squiggles. I asked my aunt and she said it was shorthand.. Can someone look at the notes page and see if there is a possibility there is some shorthand mixed in? I have a huge paper due tonight and don't have the brain capacity right now

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[dvo]

Who is this?


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A girl named Kellie I found in yearbook searches in Northern California, from Shasta High School in Redding. She would be about 14 and in her second year of highschool in 1981 when the middle picture was taken. I just find that picture so striking, the neck and hair and identical facial expression to LEK's Idaho ID, but it was a totally random search and now that I've gotten over the initial shock of seeing that same facial expression I'm thinking it probably isn't her. I'm determined to keep scanning Northern California yearbooks, however, based off of spring/summer1988's comments. I know they've seen a lot of skepticism here but it seems like the only thing to go on, in narrowing down yearbooks to search...

 

[StarrChance]

A girl named Kellie I found in yearbook searches in Northern California, from Shasta High School in Redding. She would be about 14 and in her second year of highschool in 1981 when the middle picture was taken. I just find that picture so striking, the neck and hair and identical facial expression to LEK's Idaho ID, but it was a totally random search and now that I've gotten over the initial shock of seeing that same facial expression I'm thinking it probably isn't her. I'm determined to keep scanning Northern California yearbooks, however, based off of spring/summer1988's comments. I know they've seen a lot of skepticism here but it seems like the only thing to go on, in narrowing down yearbooks to search...

If spring/summer was telling us the truth it would have helped to have a first name if nothing else :banghead:

 

[dvo]

Has Jackie Kay Boyer ever been discussed as a possibility here? There isn't much known about her disappearance. I see some similarities: shape of mouth and front teeth, slightly upturned nose, dimple on right cheek.View attachment 79115

The 3 left photos are a Jackie Boyer at Lake Highlands High School in Texas in the early 80's, and they look really close to the missing Jackie Kay Boyer's photo... could be a coincidence.

There are also easily searchable marriage records for a Jackie *K* Boyer born in 1968 (the missing Californian was born May 7 1968) to REF in Texas in 1988 and then RHF in 1995.

I'm completely new at this and not sure what merit these items have, or why Jackie Kay Boyer would still be listed as missing if in fact she'd just decided to take a bus to live with relatives in Texas (for instance) and happily carried on her life there. But for me this makes her much less likely to be FLEK. For some, perhaps the Texas connection will make it more likely, however? Interesting anyway!

 

[concernedmother]

This is pretty out there but she went to alot of trouble to change her identity. Maybe this real person had help faking her death and a big insurance policy paid out? Before she became Becky. It was probably risky going by Becky's identity forever so she made the change to Lori.

 

[j123]

I don't think there has been any evidence that LEK ever actually went by Becky. I think that was just the identity she happened to utilize to carry out her plan to legally become Lori Erika Kennedy. There were only three months between LEK acquiring the BST birth certificate and when her name was "legally" changed. I am willing to bet she never had any real intention of being Becky Sue Turner.