Found Deceased TX - PFC Vanessa Guillen, 20, Fort Hood military base, items left behind, 22 Apr 2020 *arrests* #3

[jondaba]

Now that we have learned that VG was murdered by psychopath AR, what are we faulting Ft. Hood for?
Absent some special knowledge that a person is in imminent danger and a special duty to protect that person, the government is not liable to people killed by random criminals.
Take for example Jennifer Dulos- the State of Connecticut is not responsible or liable for her murder.
Does the Army owe damages to AR's mom and dad? What if AR would have killed himself on the base? What about John Lennon, who was murdered in New York City by a psychopath. Was the State of New York or the NYPD responsible?
What would Vanessa's Law say? What can a congressional investigation learn?
The Army suspected AR - but there was no body. Immediately, when the body was found, they went to arrest him. Even if Congress decides they should have arrested him sooner, what does that have to do with sexual harassment?
Certainly. it is noble and desirable to recognize and commemorate Vanessa, who was cruelly cut down in the flower of her youth. But she was murdered by a random psychopath, not the US Army.

Vanessa, may her soul rest in peace, was murdered by AR on April 22. What did the Army itself do wrong after the murder?

 

[m00c0w]

MOO. The details of ARs escape are being whitewashed. Looking to find the original source.

MOO AR was at the MP building being interviewed about his relationship with CA.

That is being confused with his being "confined to quarters" which he was, but he was in MP supervision when he absconded.
He already knew the walls were closing in.

Again, you’re essentially accusing a federal agent of perjury... I’m not sure why we would believe some random source over the sworn testimony of a federal law enforcement agent.

Just about every major civilian box store I go to has cameras. Cameras everywhere, absolutely everywhere. I did security. I watched those cameras, not just saw them in stores or heard managers talk about them. Civilian employees also have employer phones who keep location data on them. So do vehicles. Post office, commerical, etc. It's EVERYWHERE! But not in the military? My that is strange.

JMO
At least have cameras on the entrance and exit doors of the Armory seems like it would have been in place. To see who is coming and going if a gun ends up missing.

Again, as I’ve explained elsewhere, the system in place to control AA&E access is secure enough that cameras aren’t really a necessity. For one, the weapons are all highly controlled and serialized. Even if you did manage to steal one, you’d have to figure out something to do with it. And in order to steal it, you’d have to obtain access to the arms room itself (“room” is a misnomer; think of a safety deposit box vault at a bank), disable the intrusion detection system (but your code is unique and records are stored), gain access to the key box that is usually located in a different vault, actually open that locked key box, determine which keys you actually need to unlock the weapons racks, and then successfully unlock the weapons rack in the original vault to remove one or more firearms from it. It is a highly accountable and attributable system.

Usually the person with access to the arms room does not have access to the rack keys. They have to sign them out from another person who does have control over them. They must also have a combination to the vault door, as well as a code for the IDS. There is a by-name roster of only a handful of people (usually countable on one hand) that have unaccompanied access. Inventories are conducted regularly by serial number. As soon as something goes missing, it gets very easy to track down who had access in the timespan between inventories. This method costs the Army basically nothing and is reasonably secure and accountable.

Cameras, on the other hand, to implement as have been described in this thread would likely cost millions of dollars for implementation on Ft Hood alone, and would likely not be super useful when it comes down to it. And then you get into questions like, how will data be stored? How redundant? Who do you trust with access to that data? Who is responsible for repairing the camera system if it breaks? How much will that contract cost, army-wide? Generally, the net benefit isn’t there.

Cameras are definitely in use in/around more secure facilities, but it doesn’t make a ton of sense to mandate wider usage of cameras when we can barely keep basics like air conditioning running in our buildings. There isn’t much of a compelling reason to do so, especially when, if the need arises, we have a pool of thousands of junior enlisted that can simply walk around and report what they see with zero overhead cost.

who cares about what they want and don’t want? It’s a job. My job has cameras in most places in order to protect us and the patients. If you are doing your job correctly, you have nothing to worry about. Just seems wild to me that a federal place doesn’t have cameras especially after having their own murdered in 2009. But hey, who cares right?

I’m not sure how more cameras would have prevented the 2009 shooting... Please explain.

 

[CronesEye]

Again, you’re essentially accusing a federal agent of perjury... I’m not sure why we would believe some random source over the sworn testimony of a federal law enforcement agent.




Again, as I’ve explained elsewhere, the system in place to control AA&E access is secure enough that cameras aren’t really a necessity. For one, the weapons are all highly controlled and serialized. Even if you did manage to steal one, you’d have to figure out something to do with it. And in order to steal it, you’d have to obtain access to the arms room itself (“room” is a misnomer; think of a safety deposit box vault at a bank), disable the intrusion detection system (but your code is unique and records are stored), gain access to the key box that is usually located in a different vault, actually open that locked key box, determine which keys you actually need to unlock the weapons racks, and then successfully unlock the weapons rack in the original vault to remove one or more firearms from it. It is a highly accountable and attributable system.

Usually the person with access to the arms room does not have access to the rack keys. They have to sign them out from another person who does have control over them. They must also have a combination to the vault door, as well as a code for the IDS. There is a by-name roster of only a handful of people (usually countable on one hand) that have unaccompanied access. Inventories are conducted regularly by serial number. As soon as something goes missing, it gets very easy to track down who had access in the timespan between inventories. This method costs the Army basically nothing and is reasonably secure and accountable.

Cameras, on the other hand, to implement as have been described in this thread would likely cost millions of dollars for implementation on Ft Hood alone, and would likely not be super useful when it comes down to it. And then you get into questions like, how will data be stored? How redundant? Who do you trust with access to that data? Who is responsible for repairing the camera system if it breaks? How much will that contract cost, army-wide? Generally, the net benefit isn’t there.

Cameras are definitely in use in/around more secure facilities, but it doesn’t make a ton of sense to mandate wider usage of cameras when we can barely keep basics like air conditioning running in our buildings. There isn’t much of a compelling reason to do so, especially when, if the need arises, we have a pool of thousands of junior enlisted that can simply walk around and report what they see with zero overhead cost.


I’m not sure how more cameras would have prevented the 2009 shooting... Please explain.

"a pool of thousands of junior enlisted that can simply walk around and report what they see"

Cameras are better.
Especially in a court of law because.....They are unbiased.

So many security jobs have cameras, rare for them not to anymore. They are cheap.

Took weeks to round up a few testimonies from those "thousands of junior enlisted", with a camera, they could have pulled up facts instantly.

 

[CronesEye]

How does the lawyer know what VG was going to report. She doesn’t. Sensationalism. Like the lawyer knows the bloody scene or whatever else her all knowing center of the forehead eye knows looking back with 20/20 vision.

From Vanessa's Family:
Home - Find Vanessa Guillen
"Vanessa’s Story

My name is Vanessa Guillen. I knew I wanted to join the US Army to proudly serve my country as soon as I graduated from high school. I loved the US Army until I got to Fort Hood.


I disappeared from Fort Hood, Texas on April 22, 2020.


Three weeks before I disappeared, my mom asked me why I seemed different. My mom knows me better than anyone else. She noticed I had become withdrawn and that I wasn’t able to sleep like I used to.


I finally told my mom that I was being sexually harassed by one of my sergeants on Fort Hood. My mom tried tried to convince me to give her the name of the person who was harassing me, but I didn’t want to get in trouble. My mom told me that she would report it for me, but I told her that I knew of other female soldiers that had reported sexual harassment and that the US Army didn’t believe them. I told my mom how the same sergeant that sexually harassed me would follow me whenever I would run and exercise and how uncomfortable it made me feel. My mom told me she would put a stop to it, but I told her I would take care of it myself. I felt I could put a stop to it myself. All I had to do was do something, say something. I was ready to take care of it.


But I have been missing ever since. I didn’t get a chance to give my mom a name. I didn’t get a chance to report it to anyone.


Please don’t forget about me."


Home - Find Vanessa Guillen

 

[DD8]

 

[m00c0w]

"a pool of thousands of junior enlisted that can simply walk around and report what they see"

Cameras are better.
Especially in a court of law because.....They are unbiased.

So many security jobs have cameras, rare for them not to anymore. They are cheap.

Took weeks to round up a few testimonies from those "thousands of junior enlisted", with a camera, they could have pulled up facts instantly.

“Cheap”. You realize Ft Hood is 335 square miles (larger than the size of NYC) and has a population of something like 60k people? That solution isn’t going to be “cheap”, and that’s only one base.

I still fail to understand what, exactly, people are hoping to accomplish with cameras. What would cameras have prevented here? Like, it’s really easy to say “But there should have been cameras!!!!”... but how would cameras have changed this outcome? They might be an investigative tool after the fact, if they’re working, in the right location, and video retention is long enough.

So, similar to the strange statements invoking the 2009 shooting - how would cameras have changed the outcome of this situation?

 

[Boxer]

Well per report in here that family was told a lot of blood found in the armory, relieved to think she
might have died from a single blow.
MOO probably hit from behind given the craven nature of her attacker.

 

[oviedo]

I’m now wondering if she only told her mom does that mean the Army won’t believe it? How does this work in the military?

 

[MsBetsy]

How does the lawyer know what VG was going to report. She doesn’t. Sensationalism. Like the lawyer knows the bloody scene or whatever else her all knowing center of the forehead eye knows looking back with 20/20 vision.

Vanessa's mother told Crime-on-line on June 9th that her daughter had confided in her that she was being sexually harassed by a sergeant. She said he was stalking her and harassing her verbally and would follow her when she went jogging. She said she didn't feel safe.

Her mom asked her his name and wanted to report him but Vanessa said she would take care of it herself. Three weeks later she went missing.

Although Robinson was not a sergeant, it does appear that Vanessa was being sexually harassed. The family identified him as being the perpetrator. Maybe they assumed he was her superior because he had a higher rank? Idk.

I think Khawam got the details of the bloody scene from Algulair's description of the murder. Apparently she told investigators that Robinson hit her in the head with the hammer over and over again and there was blood everywhere.

Usually blunt force injuries to the head result in a great deal of blood. Hopefully the autopsy results will show if her description was accurate. Whether she was hit 5 times or 20 times, it's still a gruesome murder without the sensationalism.

Imo

 

[NoSI]

Please join the thread for Gregory Wedel Morales at link below. He also deserves justice and to be declared as an American Soldier.

Found Deceased - TX - Gregory Wedel-Morales, Army soldier, 23, Fort Hood, 19 August 2019

Thank you so much @Seattle1. So true. As does Brandon Rosencrans. I can't find thread for him, but keep looking and if i still can't find one will create one once home.

Fort Hood soldier found shot dead near burning Jeep

 

[Midwestmom2019]

From Vanessa's Family:
Home - Find Vanessa Guillen
"Vanessa’s Story

My name is Vanessa Guillen. I knew I wanted to join the US Army to proudly serve my country as soon as I graduated from high school. I loved the US Army until I got to Fort Hood.


I disappeared from Fort Hood, Texas on April 22, 2020.


Three weeks before I disappeared, my mom asked me why I seemed different. My mom knows me better than anyone else. She noticed I had become withdrawn and that I wasn’t able to sleep like I used to.


I finally told my mom that I was being sexually harassed by one of my sergeants on Fort Hood. My mom tried tried to convince me to give her the name of the person who was harassing me, but I didn’t want to get in trouble. My mom told me that she would report it for me, but I told her that I knew of other female soldiers that had reported sexual harassment and that the US Army didn’t believe them. I told my mom how the same sergeant that sexually harassed me would follow me whenever I would run and exercise and how uncomfortable it made me feel. My mom told me she would put a stop to it, but I told her I would take care of it myself. I felt I could put a stop to it myself. All I had to do was do something, say something. I was ready to take care of it.


But I have been missing ever since. I didn’t get a chance to give my mom a name. I didn’t get a chance to report it to anyone.


Please don’t forget about me."


Home - Find Vanessa Guillen

VG stated that it was a (eta sergeant. Not a supervisor. Reversed words. And she didn’t want to report him bc of potential repercussions. She never did report him. There is no indication that she was going to report him and just ran out of time. She chose to fight her own battle. That was her decision. From all the loose information in this case, this guy was not the guy, a sergeant, sexually harassing VG. We may never know who the harassing sergeant is/was unless another victim steps up and files a report. He’ll just pick another target. I wish the Army would recruit a plant. Or two. Ferret out the sergeant who is harassing young recruits. And bring him down. Hard. But, you know, it may not be a man. Same sex sexual harassment happens, too. What about trans people? Who is going to protect them?

 

[Boxer]

Texas EquuSearch suspends search for Fort Hood soldier Vanessa Guillen after ‘partial human remains’ found near Texas river

Vanessa was bound to be found. search was going to resume in same area Wednesday 7/1, her grave site was reported by a man fixing a fence on Tuesday.

 

[Midwestmom2019]

Vanessa's mother told Crime-on-line on June 9th that her daughter had confided in her that she was being sexually harassed by a sergeant. She said he was stalking her and harassing her verbally and would follow her when she went jogging. She said she didn't feel safe.

Her mom asked her his name and wanted to report him but Vanessa said she would take care of it herself. Three weeks later she went missing.

Although Robinson was not a sergeant, it does appear that Vanessa was being sexually harassed. The family identified him as being the perpetrator. Maybe they assumed he was her superior because he had a higher rank? Idk.

I think Khawam got the details of the bloody scene from Algulair's description of the murder. Apparently she told investigators that Robinson hit her in the head with the hammer over and over again and there was blood everywhere.

Usually blunt force injuries to the head result in a great deal of blood. Hopefully the autopsy results will show if her description was accurate. Whether she was hit 5 times or 20 times, it's still a gruesome murder without the sensationalism.

Imo

A sergeant was not the murderer. So there is another perp out there.
VG said she would take care of it herself. That does not mean she would report him. It could mean a lot of things. Getting him on tape. Video. In a compromising situation. The family can not identify the dead man as the sexual harasser. They do not know who he was. He’s not her sergeant. VG knows the difference between a sergeant and this psycho-lunatic. He’s not the harasser.
As for blood everywhere? We have information from the girlfriend, second hand at best. By now, the Army would have taken steps to investigate the arms room and test for blood splatter and patterns. No news. So before we get sensationalized out of the room, let’s wait and see what we find out. Did the guy keep swinging the hammer over and over? That would be a bloody mess. He does not appear to be the kind of guy to clean up after himself. Surely the Army looked inside both arms rooms after she went missing.
Sensationalism. Reality TV.

 

[m00c0w]

I’m now wondering if she only told her mom does that mean the Army won’t believe it? How does this work in the military?

The main issue is that since she only told her mom and maybe friends or relatives, there wasn’t much the Army itself could do about anything. There are methods to report sexual assault or harassment that go waaay outside the chain of command, and keeps the victim’s identity confidential. This process wasn’t used. The Army had no way of knowing this was something that needed to be investigated. An investigation is now currently taking place regarding the harassment/assault, but I’m not sure how far that can go since it doesn’t sound like she ever actually named anyone. The best hope would be she actually told a peer a name and they provide the name to investigators.

I’m also not going to pretend like sexual assault has been “fixed” in the Army, but it’s certainly a lot better than it was, say, 5 years ago. Any whiff of impropriety is now a career-ender (As it always should have been), and god help you if you try to make a SHARP complaint disappear. Any training you go to, you have to come up with “SHARP goals”, where you as a group identify how you will uphold SHARP values. Any evaluation report must also have a block regarding SHARP and EO, and how well you upheld (or did not) those programs. There are numerous people you can report to, inside and outside of your chain of command. There are two different reporting methods, with one explicitly being for situations like this where a soldier can seek help and get resources but everything will remain confidential if the soldier is afraid of reprisal (but will not result in punishment against the offender because the report is confidential - this can be changed at any time in the future if the victim decides to seek punishment). It also becomes a big issue if you aren’t directly involved, but do not prevent or attempt to prevent harassment or assault. You’ll be just as liable and it will be just as much of a career-ender.

With all of that being said, sexual assault and harassment still happens. I don’t think it’s going to be eliminated entirely, ever. But these are massive improvements, and I’ve seen them at work firsthand. It is really sad that she did not have enough trust in the system to at least file a restricted report with someone unaffiliated with her command team. I think that is completely unrelated to what occurred here, but there’s still some lurking around out there, and I wish she was able to get her story out so that they might see justice regardless.

 

[Spartygirl]

So it's allowed.,

MOO an estranged husband whonos very thankful he was seperated from this human hyena.

BBM
YES, I am sure he is counting his blessing now.
I would be.

 

[Spartygirl]

CA has a case history in Jackson Michigan courts as CB
Case Information | Jackson County, MI

Most are just traffic but the probate one is neglect/abuse

Yes, I was looking at them yesterday.. it seems weird to me to see my home town in the news and in crime groups.. YIKES.

 

[Boxer]

I'm relatively new although 3 cases really pulled me in. I really appreciate your great find. It led me to find out CA is originally CB from Jackson, Michigan. This news article lists her schooling in her home town.
Odd she kept KA last name considering they have no children.
Woman accused of helping to hide body of Fort Hood soldier has Jackson ties
Woman accused of helping to hide body of Fort Hood soldier has Jackson ties

CAs childhood looks horrendous, and her SM alludes to it. Probably glad to see last of her last name.

 

[Spartygirl]

Well - shizzle.... I had today as her hearing... so - I'll post this so I can shorten it up a bit - and the update is in red.

Monday, July 6th:
*Initial Appearance (@ 11am CT) - TX – PFC Vanessa Guillen (20)(last seen April 22, 2020, reported missing April 23, 2020, Ft. Hood military base, remains were found (June 20, 2020) in a shallow grave next to the Leon River in Texas & the remains were sealed in concrete) - *Cecily Anne Aguilar (22) – (Robinson’s GF) – arrested (7/1/20) & charged (7/2/20) with 2nd degree tampering/fabricating with physical evidence with intent to impair a human corpse.
*Aaron David Robinson (20) one of the suspects, shot himself overnight at around 1:30 a.m. Wednesday (4/22/20) after learning human remains were found. He ran out in shorts when confronted and shot himself in the head. The suspects tried to burn Guillen & evidence at the crime scene, near Leon River, which is around 26 miles from the base. Aguilar helped dismember the body.
According to court documents, Vanessa, who was inexplicably called into work on her day off on the morning of April 22, 2020, went to an adjacent armory room, where junior soldier Aaron Robinson was working at the time. No one saw Guillen leave the armory room once she met up with Robinson & she stopped responding to text messages & calls. Guillen left her ID card, keys, and wallet behind in an armory room next to the room where Robinson worked, according to a witness. She never returned to pick the items up. Robinson told authorities that Guillen read off serial numbers for weapons & equipment when she arrived at the adjacent room. He claimed she then left to go a motor pool, where she was to hand off paperwork about a .50 caliber machine gun. Employees in the motor pool said they never saw Guillen.
Timeline post #534:
Found Deceased - TX - PFC Vanessa Guillen, 20, Fort Hood military base, items left behind, 22 Apr 2020 *arrests* #3
7/2/20 Update: Aguilar awaiting transfer by the US Marshals to a federal facility. Today (7/2/20), federal authorities filed a criminal complaint against Aguilar in connection with the disappearance of Vanessa. The criminal complaint charges Aguilar with one count of conspiracy to tamper with evidence. Upon conviction, Aguilar faces up to 20 years in federal prison and a maximum $250,000 fine. She remains in custody at this time awaiting her Initial Appearance in federal court in Waco. The hearing is expected to take place early next week. Assistant U.S. Attorneys Mark Frazier & Greg Gloff are prosecuting this case on behalf of the government. CA was transferred Friday (7/3/20) from Bell County to McLennan County to face federal charges. She arrived at the McLennan County Jail on State Highway 6 early Friday afternoon. She’s scheduled for an initial appearance before a U.S. magistrate judge at 11am on Tuesday, 7/7/20, changed to 7/6/20.
7/6/20 Update: LE moved her from Bell County jail to McLennan County jail so she could appear in Federal Court in Waco today, 7/6. Aguilar is held without bond after an initial appearance Monday morning before a federal magistrate judge. She’s charged with conspiracy to tamper with evidence with intent to impair a human corpse, according to online records. The offense carries a potential maximum sentence of 20 years in prison. A preliminary & bond hearing is scheduled for July 14. Attorney Lewis Berray Gainor was appointed to defend Aguilar.

Thank you for the update.
You rock as always @Niner

 

[Spartygirl]

DBM-- duplicate post..... sigh... again

 

[Beans]

The army has a duty of care to its staff and personnel and the culture on base is something they do have some control over. If women are frightened of reporting harassment there’s good reason for that, and it’s likely to be down to procedure and leadership attitudes. Men who can’t control themselves are the last people they should be handing any sort of power, or any guns, for that matter. There’s work to be done to investigate Vanessa’s murder but I hope this is a wake up call for the army too, especially the leadership at Fort Hood.