TX - Uvalde; Robb Elementary, 19 children and 3 adults killed, shooter dead, 24 MAY 2022 #3

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Wise Old Owl said:
No. And after watching that "moment of truth" yesterday I'm betting that she will likely be unemployed next school year. Not necessarily because of SR but because of what they found in the aftermath: the unlocked exterior doors (with a culture that said those doors are very often left unlocked); finding the magnetic strips on many interior doors; the broken lock on room 111 - not that she didn't report it but it had been reported a few times and was still not fixed (she should have been on maintnance's butt to get that done); the lack of organization of the school's masters keys; those are all serious violations of a school's safety plan and with her being the "top dog" of the school - well the buck stops there.

I'm also curious about that exterior door and who unlocked it. I will bet the house it was a custodian - but if he/she was acting on the principal's orders then................still,, that custodian (or whoever it was) may find himself/herself looking for work as well.

The complacency had become contagious because of the small town atmosphere and the "it can't happen here" attitude. Just shows to go ya that you can never let your guard down and, especially in education, you always have to be alert to protect your young students and staff.



JMHO
Click to expand...
@Wise Old Owl THANK YOU SO MUCH for your notes and coverage of the hearing!! Outstanding work!!
 
steeltowngirl said:
Seems there are - at best - lies by omission all over the place. From the school to be demolished article:

At the city council meeting on Tuesday night, McLaughlin accused McCraw of deflecting blame away from state police enforcement.

"Every briefing he leaves out the number of his own officers and rangers that were on scene that day," the mayor said. "Colonel McCraw has an agenda and it's not to present a full report on what happened and to give factual answers to the families of this community."

McLaughlin said state officials were leaving the city and its residents in the dark, declaring: "The gloves are off."
Click to expand...
Mr. Mayor is all up at arms because his "guy" screwed up - his "guy" was incompetent - his "guy" didn't know what he was doing and refused to relinquish command to a more knowledgeable agency/officer.

And now that those facts are coming out - he's getting madder by the minute. Small town - you lt don't "diss" the power structure in a small town - they come out swinging to protect their own regardless of the facts or "who did what".

Oh well, said it before "sux to be them". It wasn't McCraw's fault those doors were left open / unlocked. It wasn't McCraw's fault that PA didn't even bother to TRY the door to room 111 that was unlocked the whole time. It wasn't McCraw's fault - that because of those abject failures under PA's command it took one hour, fourteen minutes and 28 seconds to breach that door and neutralize the shooter. Nope. That's all on PA.

I've been thinking on this and I'm wondering if Uvalde will even exist when this is all over. The lawsuits alone. When Parkland was finally settled - the payout was something like $268 million - to the families and injured. Now Broward county is huge and was able to somewhat absorb that - but Uvalde? Small town Uvalde? Plus I bet A LOTof the people there are already considering moving - especially the affected families - so will there be an exodus? Mr. Mayor just might end up the mayor of a ghost town.



JMHO




JMHO
 
steeltowngirl said:
@Wise Old Owl THANK YOU SO MUCH for your notes and coverage of the hearing!! Outstanding work!!
Click to expand...
You are so welcome - that's what we do here - we help each other.

I won't be following the hearing today - I have to do "what I do" and teach - lol. I will be done around 2PM so I might be watching after that. I have a VERY BRIGHT 4th grader today and we have been kinda discussing all this - I have been surprised at her response to all this and her thoughts about schooling and seeing a child's insight to what is happening in this world today is eye-opening. She is actually the one that said that little boy under the table might have been wrong about it being LE that called out to survivors! :eek: Our kids are resilient and they have voices too - yet a lot of "adults" discount them and don't listen to what they have to say, yet they are the ones in harm's way, they are the ones that end up staring down the barrel of an AR-15!!!!!!!

I just wanted to see McCraw's testimony yesterday. While I watched the entire day - and I have some thoughts on those that testified after - I wanted to hear the account of what they found.

Just glad I could help.




JMHO
 
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Seattle1 said:
I'm speechless.

What's the truth?

Was Chief PA blatantly, flat-out lying to the Texas Tribune two weeks ago when he made these statements?

Did an officer really put a key inside the classroom door before entering?

www.insider.com

Uvalde school police chief said he tried at least 26 keys to the room where the shooter was, but none worked

Pete Arredondo's lawyer said the police chief had to get a janitor to bring him a "key ring that's got to weigh 10 pounds."
www.insider.com www.insider.com

June 10, 2022

  • The Uvalde schools police chief said he tried over 26 keys to access the room where the gunman was.
  • None of them worked, he said, and eventually another officer found the right key.
  • His lawyer said the school's key system was kept on a ring "that's got to weigh 10 pounds."
Uvalde schools district police Chief Pete Arredondo told the Texas Tribune that he had called for the keys and a tool to break down the door, which he couldn't kick down because it was reinforced.

While the breaching tool never came, the keys did, per the Tribune. Arredondo said he was given a set of six keys by a janitor, and tried each one fruitlessly on the door of a room connected to where the gunman was.

Another key ring with about 20 to 30 keys was later brought to him, and he tried all of them one by one, he said, giving a total of at least 26 attempts.

[..]

Eventually, Arredondo was informed that another officer had found the key to the room, he told the outlet. More than an hour passed before officers on the scene took down the gunman.
Click to expand...
Between this article and one of the others you posted along with everything else out there, I'm still shocked at the incompetence shown. IMO, it seems like the chief knew he screwed up and has tried everything to get the spotlight off of him.

You've got officers with ballistic shields, ARs and a Halligan and they're standing around because you believe you're not the incident commander? This along with not carrying either of the issued radios because they were a burden? Then lying about the keys and checking doors, I'm at a loss for words. The whole response was absolutely botched from the beginning causing the deaths of innocent children. Now everyone involved has to live with inaction and feelings of guilt
 
@Wise Old Owl
Thank you so much for your notes!
The hearing was much more than I expected.

Here is some information to fill in the gaps:

All students in Uvalde attend Robb Elementary (2-4th grade)
Instead of geographical boundaries, students are divided by grades amongst three elementary schools: PK-1, 2-4 and 5-6.(Without dwelling on details, this is probably a solution to a school segregation, civil rights lawsuit filed against Uvalde in the 1970's. ) All students attend the district's only middle school and high school.


I read early on that his grandmother worked at Robb.
www.nationalreview.com

Texas Shooter’s Grandmother Was Employed at Elementary School: Report | National Review

The admission establishes, for the first time, a link between Ramos and Robb Elementary School, where he killed 19 children and two teachers on May 24.
www.nationalreview.com www.nationalreview.com

I assume he probably chose Robb because his grandmother worked there and it was closest to her home.
I also read that he asked one of his cousins about details of the school. Salvador Ramos asked cousin for details about school before Texas shooting

I also read that his grandmother and grandfather knew about one of the guns, however they ordered SR to get rid of it
www.thedailybeast.com

Grandma Told Shooter to Get Rid of Gun Before Uvalde Massacre

The woman Salvador Ramos shot in the face discovered a weapon a few days before his horrific attack and wanted it out of the house, sources say.
www.thedailybeast.com
 
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Friday Fan said:
@Wise Old Owl
Thank you so much for your notes!
The hearing was much more than I expected.

Here is some information to fill in the gaps:

All students in Uvalde attend Robb Elementary (2-4th grade)
Instead of geographical boundaries, students are divided by grades amongst three elementary schools: PK-1, 2-4 and 5-6.(Without dwelling on details, this is probably a solution to a school segregation, civil rights lawsuit filed against Uvalde in the 1970's. ) All students attend the district's only middle school and high school.


I read early on that his grandmother worked at Robb.
www.nationalreview.com

Texas Shooter’s Grandmother Was Employed at Elementary School: Report | National Review

The admission establishes, for the first time, a link between Ramos and Robb Elementary School, where he killed 19 children and two teachers on May 24.
www.nationalreview.com www.nationalreview.com

I assume he probably chose Robb because his grandmother worked there and it was closest to her home.
I also read that he asked one of his cousins about details of the school. Salvador Ramos asked cousin for details about school before Texas shooting

I also read that his grandmother and grandfather knew about one of the guns, however they ordered SR to get rid of it
www.thedailybeast.com

Grandma Told Shooter to Get Rid of Gun Before Uvalde Massacre

The woman Salvador Ramos shot in the face discovered a weapon a few days before his horrific attack and wanted it out of the house, sources say.
www.thedailybeast.com
Click to expand...
I remember our discussion about where on earth he managed to hide weapons in the house - well, mystery solved.

Grannie was very vigilant.
Nothing could be hidden from her.
Her house - her domain!
 
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Friday Fan said:
I also read that his grandmother and grandfather knew about one of the guns, however they ordered SR to get rid of it
www.thedailybeast.com

Grandma Told Shooter to Get Rid of Gun Before Uvalde Massacre

The woman Salvador Ramos shot in the face discovered a weapon a few days before his horrific attack and wanted it out of the house, sources say.
www.thedailybeast.com
Click to expand...
rsbm

“Get rid of the gun?“ What does that even mean? Just get it out of the house, not caring where it goes? His grandma is a victim, therefore I will tread lightly.. but the dysfunction is apparent.

JMO
 
Here's something I want to throw out there. It was something that was brought up many times yesterday - IIRC even one of the professionals testified about it.

I have my own thoughts about it (and they probably aren't the "most popular" thoughts).

SOCIAL MEDIA

Snapchat, instgram, facebook (but not so much anymore) and the new BIG one tic-tok.

Yesterday they talked about social media. McCraw answered questions about the 15 yr old in Germany that SR had texted the day of:
"I'm going to shoot my grandmother in the head"'
"I shot my grandmother in the head".
"I'm going to go shoot up an elementary school".

This girl did not know SR and it is believed that he didn't even know she was in Germany (not the in US).

This girl called someone she knew in the states and they called authorities (wasn't made clear just who he/she called).

The girl in Germany just blocked SR and went back to sleep. (it was night time over there)

I believe there is a serious problem with this. It has taken over our children (and a lot of our adults too!)

Where I used to have kids say, when I asked, what do you want to do when you grow up? I would get doctor, veterinarian, fireman, teacher and of course the singers, actors, - but in the past 7-10 years that has changed to - and this is the one I get the most - I want to be a "you-tuber" or a tic-tok star or a professional gamer.

Anybody out there want to share thoughts about this?




JMHO
 
steeltowngirl said:
Seems there are - at best - lies by omission all over the place. From the school to be demolished article:

At the city council meeting on Tuesday night, McLaughlin accused McCraw of deflecting blame away from state police enforcement.

"Every briefing he leaves out the number of his own officers and rangers that were on scene that day," the mayor said. "Colonel McCraw has an agenda and it's not to present a full report on what happened and to give factual answers to the families of this community."

McLaughlin said state officials were leaving the city and its residents in the dark, declaring: "The gloves are off."
Click to expand...
Thank you for your insight.
 
steeltowngirl said:
Seems there are - at best - lies by omission all over the place. From the school to be demolished article:

At the city council meeting on Tuesday night, McLaughlin accused McCraw of deflecting blame away from state police enforcement.

"Every briefing he leaves out the number of his own officers and rangers that were on scene that day," the mayor said. "Colonel McCraw has an agenda and it's not to present a full report on what happened and to give factual answers to the families of this community."

McLaughlin said state officials were leaving the city and its residents in the dark, declaring: "The gloves are off."
Click to expand...
Funny but McCraw did state how many officers (and their agency) were on scene.

361 officers total on scene
the majority were federal officers
91 - DPS (which is McCraw's agency
30 special agents - which were deployed outside helping evacuate the other children
6 - UISD - school police
Uvalde city police - didn't give a specific number
County Sheriff deputies - didn't give a specific

I'm real curious about this "agenda" that he claims McCraw to have and how he is not presenting a full report on what happened.


JMHO
 
Wise Old Owl said:
Here's something I want to throw out there. It was something that was brought up many times yesterday - IIRC even one of the professionals testified about it.

I have my own thoughts about it (and they probably aren't the "most popular" thoughts).

SOCIAL MEDIA

Snapchat, instgram, facebook (but not so much anymore) and the new BIG one tic-tok.

Yesterday they talked about social media. McCraw answered questions about the 15 yr old in Germany that SR had texted the day of:
"I'm going to shoot my grandmother in the head"'
"I shot my grandmother in the head".
"I'm going to go shoot up an elementary school".

This girl did not know SR and it is believed that he didn't even know she was in Germany (not the in US).

This girl called someone she knew in the states and they called authorities (wasn't made clear just who he/she called).

The girl in Germany just blocked SR and went back to sleep. (it was night time over there)

I believe there is a serious problem with this. It has taken over our children (and a lot of our adults too!)

Where I used to have kids say, when I asked, what do you want to do when you grow up? I would get doctor, veterinarian, fireman, teacher and of course the singers, actors, - but in the past 7-10 years that has changed to - and this is the one I get the most - I want to be a "you-tuber" or a tic-tok star or a professional gamer.

Anybody out there want to share thoughts about this?




JMHO
Click to expand...
It is a sign of our times :)

Nobody can fight the progress and win.
But we can teach students how to use social media safely.

This is a task for both parents and school.
 
Dotta said:
Another lawsuit looming...

Texas lawmaker sues safety department for release of Uvalde shooting records - Washington Examiner

Video EmbedA Texas state senator filed a lawsuit against the state’s Department of Public Safety, accusing officials of denying an open records request regarding the Uvalde school shooting that left 19 students and two teachers dead last month.State Sen. Roland Gutierrez, a Democrat
www.washingtonexaminer.com www.washingtonexaminer.com
Click to expand...
The Uvalde mayor has also accused Texas state authorities of selectively releasing information from its investigation into the Robb Elementary School shooting and the subsequent police response, alleging officials only leak certain details that make local law enforcement look bad.
State officials have sought to absolve themselves from blame by scapegoating city police with selective disclosure, Mayor Don McLaughlin said, accusing authorities of leaking information to the press before briefing Uvalde officials.
Eleven officers had initially entered the building within three minutes of the gunman breaching the school, according to the report. However, the chief of the school district police, Pete Arredondo, called for backup at 11:40 a.m. with a landline, instructing law enforcement to wait for more weapons, more officers, and keys to the classroom door before acting.
But the investigation uncovered that the door was unlocked and no officers even attempted to open it before the breach, Texas Department of Public Safety Director Steve McCraw said.


This was the last senator to ask Mr. McCraw questions yesterday and you could tell there was tension between them. They even spoke of "butting heads" when they had talked on the phone. IIRC Mr. McCraw actually asked the state attorney to bar Mr. Gutierrez from requesting information. So we have a "pi**ing match" going on here.

I don't understand the selectively releasing information when McCraw distributed a very detailed timeline right down to the second.

PA called for backup on the landline - I had that in my notes last night - don't know what "landline" he was using and that PA instructed LE to wait for more weapons, officers, etc. So.....maybe PA wasn't in the hallway as fast as we have been told - maybe he called from the office of the school (landline)? With him not being in the hallway - he didn't know about all the officers that were in that hallway within the first 3-5 minutes?

And you can't get around the fact that PA kept talking about keys - requesting keys, trying keys on different doors and then to only find out that THAT DOOR WAS UNLOCKED THE ENTIRE TIME! And that PA never, once tried the actual door to room 111.

So the State Police are "scapegoating" the local school police? Why? This is ridiculous. Its obvious who did what.

That statement by Gutierrez at the end asking McCraw about him telling Gutierrez over the phone that the
DPS WILL NEVER STAND DOWN TO ANOTHER AGENCY AGAIN - is very telling.

I'm thinking McCraw was trying to get PA to relinquish command to the DPS and PA refused. Its the only thing that makes sense. McCraw really doesn't have a dog in this fight - it wasn't his jurisdiction, he was responding to a school mass shooting to help and was met with push back by PA - an inexperienced, inept, bumbling officer who made horrible fatal mistakes.

Let them sue - I don't think this is going to go anywhere.




JMHO


ETA: when I say McCraw was asking PA to relinquish command - I don't think McCraw was on scene - but I do think he was in communication with some of his officers that were on the scene.
 
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Seattle1 said:
^^bbm

While PA alleged in his statement to MSM that he was trying all the keys (7 + 30) unsuccessfully, praying with every key, it's also been alleged that the keys were not being tried on the subject classroom doors 111 or 112.

Was PA trying doors in another corridor? This might be on body cam or surveillance. It's still unclear to me.

More importantly, if the subject doors were truly unlocked, PA would never have needed a key to breach the two classrooms, right?

Or, are we to believe the shooter locked the doors, and therefore door keys were necessary for classrooms 111 & 112?

ETA:
My understanding is there are 7 keys total (per the custodian) necessary to access the rooms on the entire campus. It was reported PA had a set of these 7 keys in addition to a ring with about 30 more keys.
Click to expand...

It makes more sense to me that there would be a limited number of keys to access the whole building. In my school that was the case. It would harken back to the middle ages to not have a limited set of master keys for a building that size.
 
Thanks, @WiseOldOwl for the details from the hearing. The most stunning things to me are the lack of the chief's understanding of the building and the whole keys/not trying on door/waiting for them. I have written here before of my professional knowledge of school shootings and protocols for shootings after Sandy Hook. The mayor should be less concerned with selective information being released and more concerned at the abject failure of his police force response and the lack of combined planning between the school board/police/outside agencies. In this day and age there is no reason for these failures to occur on such a grand scale. In the Oxford, Michigan shooting, the failure was school administration not LE. Here we have a cascade of failures that cost the lives of an untold number of injured in those rooms.

They got state and federal money to protect their buildings and programs. I will say that it makes sense to have state/federal guidelines about the training/level of training required/checklist on building requirements in order to receive monies. In this case, they were clearly not up to the task either in planning, training (in person and table-top), and use of outside LE. It is a damn shame.
 
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