UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon & Newborn (found deceased), Bolton Greater Manchester, 5 Jan 2023 #2 *Arrest*

[amaraya]

<modsnip - quoted post, response removed>
here you have parents who have had chidren taken away, have isolated themselves from all family and friends,gave birth without prenatal/antenatal care for mom OR baby, as well as abandoning a car ON FIRE and travelling in extremely cold weather, most likely sleeping rough in freezing temperatures with a newborn.

Regardless of how someone feels about SS because of their own experience, one should be able to see the danger here for all, esp child and coupled with no custody of other chidren, this is a pretty clear view of the need for SS to be involved,as it appears no one else was. SS is not always great, that's for sure, but sometimes parents think about themselves and their needs first.

 

[Furore]

Pretty sure not seeking any medical attention, camping in the outdoors with a fragile newborn, and the poor thing perishing would be at best criminal neglect of a child, and obvious they have never sought medical attention.

 

[Rusty Braincells]

Would imagine her trust fund, her account

I think at some point it was said they must be running out of money? Is that just because no withdrawals from cash points rather than an empty bank account? I also wondered if to the extent possible, access to CM’s money had been cut off but as an adult of her age she (I am guessing) probably has unrestricted access to most of it anyway.

 

[dotr]

Police searching the woods for missing baby
(Good Morning Britain, ITV)

Constance Marten’s father relief she’s been found - and his fears for missing baby

The father of runaway aristocrat Constance Marten said he was extremely worried about her newborn child

www.independent.co.uk

rbbm
''The father of runaway aristocrat Constance Marten has spoken of his “immense relief” that his daughter has been found but said he was extremely worried about her newborn baby, who is still missing .

Napier Marten, who issued two heartfelt pleas while his daughter was on the run with her convicted rapist partner, told The Independent that “whatever the weather, I love her dearly and will support her best I can”.


But he added that it would have been “far better if they had handed themselves in earlier”.

Constance, 35, and her partner Mark Gordon, 48, are in police custody after being arrested in Brighton on suspicion of child neglect, officers have confirmed. The couple’s newborn baby was not found.


Metropolitan Police said an urgent search operation is underway to find their baby who has not received medical attention, as DSI Lewis Bashford revealed that the couple have not told them, where the baby is or even its gender.

Speaking exclusively to The Independent, Mr Marten said: “It is an immense relief to know my beloved daughter Constance has been found, tempered by the very alarming news her baby has yet to be found.''

 

[DetectiveLawless]

The baby (if still alive & not with anyone else) has now been on its own overnight, outside for 15hours…last night was freezing here and not much better today. Surely, now that they have been arrested (and that the games up so to speak), CM & MG would have done the right thing & told the police by now where it is? 15hours is a long time outside for a newborn with no food/warmth, im also sure it would be crying too…im now thinking perhaps the baby hasnt survived and maybe died a week or so ago..which is why they arnt saying anything as to the location of where he/she is, as if the infant has perished it changes the nature of this case completly..just my opinion

Unless, somehow, they have it protected with another person.

Which I don't believe to be true at all. I agree with you and think the baby is dead. They know they'll be charged for that too but I am surprised one of them hasn't broken yet - so there is still a possibility.

A lot of folk have said that at each location they have been they have been staying with friends etc. Which realistically is ridiculous. One of the friends would have likely talked and there would have been zero reason to buy a blue tent from Argos (To lug around with a new born baby - smart idea that, lets stay with friends or rent a house but carry an Argos tent around with us too - If they didn't need it they would have ditched it. They would have likely been following the news too and know they have been on CCTV with it).

Saying that they would likely leave the baby with somebody safe also IMO doesn't make sense, actually, it does from a logical approach but both MG and CM are hardly that and have without a doubt endangered the newborns life as soon as it ended up in the car when it was born.

A medical procedure has taken place, it is highly advisable to get checked out not only for the mother and child. Even if the child is alive god knows what kind of illnesses or diseases it could have potentially already have 54 days in to its life.

So much has been overlooked simply by saying "Maybe they want to be good parents and be left alone" Sure, keep telling yourself that!

If they find the baby alive they can charge them for neglecting it for the last 20 hours or so its been hidden!

 

[CriLondon]

Would imagine her trust fund, her account

Forgive my lack of knowledge , but surely if they were on the run with LE actively looking for them , this account would have been tracked for any activity ?

 

[dotr]

 

[Telltale]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed>
If the baby is dead they have every reason to stay quiet, since admitting to that would be copping to some rather significant and well documented child neglect resulting in death criminal charges.

If the baby is alive and not being cared for you would hope they would rather let the police have him rather than let him die of exposure. If they left him with someone you would hope that person will eventually come forward. - Brighton is well known for its homeless/off the grid hippy scene, so it's not impossible I guess.

However considering their actions so far, that is far from garenteed I am afraid. Hope is all we have right now.

 

[Furore]

Unless, somehow, they have it protected with another person.

Which I don't believe to be true at all. I agree with you and think the baby is dead. They know they'll be charged for that too but I am surprised one of them hasn't broken yet - so there is still a possibility.

A lot of folk have said that at each location they have been they have been staying with friends etc. Which realistically is ridiculous. One of the friends would have likely talked and there would have been zero reason to buy a blue tent from Argos (To lug around with a new born baby - smart idea that, lets stay with friends or rent a house but carry an Argos tent around with us too - If they didn't need it they would have ditched it. They would have likely been following the news too and know they have been on CCTV with it).

Saying that they would likely leave the baby with somebody safe also IMO doesn't make sense, actually, it does from a logical approach but both MG and CM are hardly that and have without a doubt endangered the newborns life as soon as it ended up in the car when it was born.

A medical procedure has taken place, it is highly advisable to get checked out not only for the mother and child. Even if the child is alive god knows what kind of illnesses or diseases it could have potentially already have 54 days in to its life.

So much has been overlooked simply by saying "Maybe they want to be good parents and be left alone" Sure, keep telling yourself that!

Exactly. IMO things are there for a reason, even gaining weight checks early on - failure to thrive can be signs of infection or poor feeding imo. Post natal childcare is systematic.

If the poor poor infant has passed away and I hope to god it hasn’t as I have kids of my own, I can imagine parents that paranoid would still want to own the privacy of its resting place or wouldn’t want it to undergo a PM potentially (JMO) and speculation on my behalf.

 

[dotr]

 

[Amonet]

If CM had presented to a midwife then she would have been flagged up to SS due to the prior removal of her children. Hence, she didn't seem antenatal care.

I don't think anyone would have known she'd given birth if it weren't for the car fire to be honest. I think they were trying to go to Ireland though, and would have tried to settle there, where the perception is the authorities are more likely to keep children with parents.

If the other children have been adopted and she wasn't known to be pregnant then I see no reason for proactive SS monitoring.



Here's a thought - what if they've given the baby to a woman who is desperate for a baby of her own but struggles with infertility or neonatal loss. The sort of woman who buys a reborn doll to cope. She's so desperate for a baby that she agrees they can visit whenever.

She could have presented the baby as her own to friends and family - cryptic pregnancy, miracle baby etc. Undoubtedly she would have bonded with the baby, and phoning the police to admit where the baby is would mean telling her entire social circle that she's spun a web of lies to them.

Wild speculation on my part, and to be honest I think the most likely scenario is the baby has died, but if someone was caring for the baby and didn't come forward it would be a possible scenario.

I think it's natural to 'reach' for a scenario where the baby is okay, but I think that one is reaching too far.

CM and MG have done so much to keep the baby with them, I find it hard to believe they'd just give the baby to someone else for an off the books adoption.

I'm surprised that one of them wasn't with the baby at all times, which is how things appeared to be from the media reporting before now. I hope that they did leave the baby with a friend for a few days, maybe they realised this situation wasn't good for baby (after about 6 weeks of living rough?) and have taken baby to a friend so that baby could be warm. i wonder how long police watched for them to return to baby before going in for the arrest? But given CM and MG's behaviour to this point, I wonder why they were away from baby long enough to be arrested without baby

I really hope the baby is with a friend and this isn't the tragic outcome that was the worst case fear

 

[rockthecasbah]

The pair were found and arrested by police on Monday evening near Brighton following a tip-off from a member of the public, who spotted them trying to get out money from a cash point.


But their two-month-old baby boy - who has not been seen for weeks - was not with them when authorities found the pair.

LIVE: Urgent hunt for baby as runaway mother and rapist lover arrested

MAILONLINE LIVEBLOG: Get all the latest updates on the urgent search for the missing newborn baby of Constance Marten and Mark Gordon in Brighton on February 28, 2023.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Well done that person.

 

[Davieson]

Pretty sure not seeking any medical attention, camping in the outdoors with a fragile newborn, and the poor thing perishing would be at best criminal neglect of a child, and obvious they have never sought medical attention.

All of that would still need to be proved, or at least demonstrated to be true

 

[9InchNails]

Forgive my lack of knowledge , but surely if they were on the run with LE actively looking for them , this account would have been tracked for any activity ?

Maybe trying to withdraw cash with a stolen card ? Could also explain the arrest, in addition to the endangerment of their baby

 

[Nikynoo]

Pretty sure not seeking any medical attention, camping in the outdoors with a fragile newborn, and the poor thing perishing would be at best criminal neglect of a child, and obvious they have never sought medical attention.

But you (nor the police) know that. We shall see. I am hoping that the baby is alive and well.

 

[Amaz0nia]

Forgive my lack of knowledge , but surely if they were on the run with LE actively looking for them , this account would have been tracked for any activity ?

They apparently built up a stockpile of cash around £15k i believe-the police said last week it was probably running out. She has a trust fund so guess they had to go eventually to an ATM to withdraw more..not sure they can stop her fund, seeing as shes an adult

 

[JennieM]

A pair of pink child's earmuffs is collected by a police officer and put in an evidence bag in Roedale Valley Allotments, Brighton, where an urgent search operation is underway to find the missing baby of Constance Marten.

Constance Marten's father is 'relieved' his runaway daughter is found

Napier Marten said it is 'very alarming' after his daughter, 35, was arrested with Mark Gordon, 48, in Brighton last night but refused to say where the newborn is.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[HongKongPhooey]

I can’t think of any good reasons why they wouldn’t reveal where the baby is, if the baby is alive and well

 

[DetectiveLawless]

All of that would still need to be proved, or at least demonstrated to be true

I really dont think that would be an issue to prove. They'll likely admit it.

But it really doesn't matter when they aren't cooperating with the police already - That's kind of all the police need to know what they're like.

 

[Nikynoo]

If the baby is dead they have every reason to stay quiet, since admitting to that would be copping to some rather significant and well documented child neglect resulting in death criminal charges.

If the baby is alive and not being cared for you would hope they would rather let the police have him rather than let him die of exposure. If they left him with someone you would hope that person will eventually come forward. - Brighton is well known for its homeless/off the grid hippy scene, so it's not impossible I guess.

However considering their actions so far, that is far from garenteed I am afraid. Hope is all we have right now.

I don't necessarily agree that your first sentence would result in a substantial jail sentence for either M or C.

I am wondering if there are those who are sympathetic to them who provide a safe place for the baby overnight, but not M and C? Is there such a network of 'sympathisers'?