UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon & Newborn (found deceased), Bolton Greater Manchester, 5 Jan 2023 #2 *Arrest*

[Amonet]

But they were 'driven underground' otherwise they would not have fled in the first place.

My logical head thinks that the baby is safe somewhere. If the baby had died, then there is no reason for either B or C to remain quiet.

Sometimes people want to run from SS, but it doesn't mean that there aren't usually good reasons for SS to be interested.

We still don't have all the details of what's happened with this couple and their children over the last few years (to my knowledge) all we know is the precarious living situation they've had over the past 7 weeks with a vulnerable newborn. And we all want that baby to be safe somewhere.

 

[JennieM]

Police have told the BBC they are questioning the pair.

Officers are scouring an allotment and golf course on the Sussex Downs, in an "urgent search" involving helicopters, drones and police dogs.

Ms Marten and Gordon, a convicted sex offender, were found after being spotted by a member of the public in the Fiveways area of north Brighton on Monday evening.

In a direct appeal to the public, Det Supt Lewis Basford said the search was "now all about that baby".

He told BBC Breakfast there were concerns about the child being exposed to the elements.

"The arrest location was close to open land and the couple were moving towards that land. We know that they travel, we know they travel long distances," said Det Supt Basford.

"My plea to the members of the public here in Brighton and crossing over towards Newhaven is to please be vigilant."

Around 20 officers have been spotted combing through Hollingbury Golf Course and Roedale Valley Allotments to find the missing baby.

Police have also urged people to look through sheds and outhouses.

Urgent search for baby as Constance Marten and Mark Gordon arrested

Constance Marten and Mark Gordon are arrested as police urge people to help in the search for their child.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Davieson]

It would be interesting to know just what grounds they have been arrested on.

 

[Telltale]

I don't necessarily agree that your first sentence would result in a substantial jail sentence for either M or C.

I am wondering if there are those who are sympathetic to them who provide a safe place for the baby overnight, but not M and C? Is there such a network of 'sympathisers'?

You would know better than I would.

However they might not know that.

Also, speculatively they have gone to rather significant lengths to keep the authorities from interfering with their family. The final resting place of their baby could be the last bit of control they have in this situation. I could see them guarding that at all costs.

 

[infinit]

It would be interesting to know just what grounds they have been arrested on.

Child neglect

Missing couple Constance Marten and Mark Gordon arrested but search for baby continues

Pair arrested on suspicion of child neglect amid urgent operation to find infant born at time of disappearance in January

www.theguardian.com

 

[Amaz0nia]

Unless, somehow, they have it protected with another person.

Which I don't believe to be true at all. I agree with you and think the baby is dead. They know they'll be charged for that too but I am surprised one of them hasn't broken yet - so there is still a possibility.

A lot of folk have said that at each location they have been they have been staying with friends etc. Which realistically is ridiculous. One of the friends would have likely talked and there would have been zero reason to buy a blue tent from Argos (To lug around with a new born baby - smart idea that, lets stay with friends or rent a house but carry an Argos tent around with us too - If they didn't need it they would have ditched it. They would have likely been following the news too and know they have been on CCTV with it).

Saying that they would likely leave the baby with somebody safe also IMO doesn't make sense, actually, it does from a logical approach but both MG and CM are hardly that and have without a doubt endangered the newborns life as soon as it ended up in the car when it was born.

A medical procedure has taken place, it is highly advisable to get checked out not only for the mother and child. Even if the child is alive god knows what kind of illnesses or diseases it could have potentially already have 54 days in to its life.

So much has been overlooked simply by saying "Maybe they want to be good parents and be left alone" Sure, keep telling yourself that!

If they find the baby alive they can charge them for neglecting it for the last 20 hours or so its been hidden!

Im also not convinced they would have had anyone to stay with or anyone they would have left the baby with-by all accounts they were totally estranged from friends, family etc for a very long time. Seems they led an extremely insular, isolated and strange existance together. Whether that was driven by mental health/religion/dv etc remains to be seen but something has gone very wrong here, I agree with you -sometimes there needs to be helpful intervention by the relevent services no matter how much mum & dad want to care for their baby-sadly because of the chaotic lifestyle choices of the parents its sometimes not in the childs best interests to remain with them ..this is what i think has happened with this case in the past..the more the say goes on with no news on the baby the sadder the outcome gets

 

[Amaz0nia]

Unless, somehow, they have it protected with another person.

Which I don't believe to be true at all. I agree with you and think the baby is dead. They know they'll be charged for that too but I am surprised one of them hasn't broken yet - so there is still a possibility.

A lot of folk have said that at each location they have been they have been staying with friends etc. Which realistically is ridiculous. One of the friends would have likely talked and there would have been zero reason to buy a blue tent from Argos (To lug around with a new born baby - smart idea that, lets stay with friends or rent a house but carry an Argos tent around with us too - If they didn't need it they would have ditched it. They would have likely been following the news too and know they have been on CCTV with it).

Saying that they would likely leave the baby with somebody safe also IMO doesn't make sense, actually, it does from a logical approach but both MG and CM are hardly that and have without a doubt endangered the newborns life as soon as it ended up in the car when it was born.

A medical procedure has taken place, it is highly advisable to get checked out not only for the mother and child. Even if the child is alive god knows what kind of illnesses or diseases it could have potentially already have 54 days in to its life.

So much has been overlooked simply by saying "Maybe they want to be good parents and be left alone" Sure, keep telling yourself that!

If they find the baby alive they can charge them for neglecting it for the last 20 hours or so its been hidden!

Im also not convinced they would have had anyone to stay with or anyone they would have left the baby with-by all accounts they were totally estranged from friends, family etc for a very long time. Seems they led an extremely insular, isolated and strange existance together. Whether that was driven by mental health/religion/dv etc remains to be seen but something has gone very wrong here, I agree with you -sometimes there needs to be helpful intervention by the relevent services no matter how much mum & dad want to care for their baby-sadly because of the chaotic lifestyle choices of the parents its sometimes not in the childs best interests to remain with them ..this is what i think has happened with this case in the past..the more the say goes on with no news on the baby the sadder the outcome gets

 

[Scotsleuth]

It would be interesting to know just what grounds they have been arrested on.

Well if you are supposed to have a baby, and the police are looking for that baby and then you don't have that baby and can't say where that baby is.. that's a problem... a problem you can be arrested for

 

[infinit]

Im also not convinced they would have had anyone to stay with or anyone they would have left the baby with-by all accounts they were totally estranged from friends, family etc for a very long time. Seems they led an extremely insular, isolated and strange existance together. Whether that was driven by mental health/religion/dv etc remains to be seen but something has gone very wrong here, I agree with you -sometimes there needs to be helpful intervention by the relevent services no matter how much mum & dad want to care for their baby-sadly because of the chaotic lifestyle choices of the parents its sometimes not in the childs best interests to remain with them ..this is what i think has happened with this case in the past..the more the say goes on with no news on the baby the sadder the outcome gets

Brighton does have some interesting culture and is one of the more well known places for hippies etc. If I wanted to find someone sympathetic to their plight it's probably where I would go also. But I agree, it doesn't look very good.

 

[Furore]

All of that would still need to be proved, or at least demonstrated to be true

It has been reported in MSM they haven’t received medical care and very easy to check ED records anyway

 

[CriLondon]

They apparently built up a stockpile of cash around £15k i believe-the police said last week it was probably running out. She has a trust fund so guess they had to go eventually to an ATM to withdraw more..not sure they can stop her fund, seeing as shes an adult

Thank you for your reply , i have started to have a look at this case only recently .
Stop it no , i don't think so either .
But "watch" the account yes , they definitely can and would have been doing so IMO.
I mean desperate times-desperate measures , but to withdraw from a cash point from her own account ,pretty much amounts to calling LE and saying " Hi I'm here ".

 

[DetectiveLawless]

Well if you are supposed to have a baby, and the police are looking for that baby and then you don't have that baby and can't say where that baby is.. that's a problem... a problem you can be arrested for

Absolutely, yet there are people that actually do not see this as an issue. That's a huge problem in itself!

<modsnip>

 

[Furore]

It has been reported in MSM they haven’t received medical care and very easy to check ED records anyway

Here is MSM link Missing couple Constance Marten and Mark Gordon arrested but search for baby continues | UK news | The Guardian

 

[infinit]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

I doubt they'd have got this Midwife to appeal (Not that I think it was worded particularly well) if there was any evidence of them accessing NHS services.

Constance Marten: Couple putting baby at risk, says midwife

Constance Marten, her partner and their baby could be "absolutely anywhere in the UK", police say.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Amaz0nia]

Brighton does have some interesting culture and is one of the more well known places for hippies etc. If I wanted to find someone sympathetic to their plight it's probably where I would go also. But I agree, it doesn't look very good.

Yes i did initially think that too as makes sense.. but im local & its not really that easy to infiltrate the alternative scene and a lot of them are suspicious of new people as well - ive friends that live in vans up the dyke & its the same with them…maybe a chance chat in the right cafe or something but it dosnt appear that MG & CM have been on the social scene..either in real life or online (fb etc) but we dont really know what theyve been doing-probably just trying to survive their circumstances i imagine

 

[QB2022]

It's child neglect. Grounds for arrest are undeniable. Can't help but worry for the baby, if they had placed them somewhere safe then it shouldn't be an issue stating where they are?

 

[DetectiveLawless]

Yes i did initially think that too as makes sense.. but im local & its not really that easy to infiltrate the alternative scene and a lot of them are suspicious of new people as well - ive friends that live in vans up the dyke & its the same with them…maybe a chance chat in the right cafe or something but it dosnt appear that MG & CM have been on the social scene..either in real life or online (fb etc) but we dont really know what theyve been doing-probably just trying to survive their circumstances i imagine

Especially when there is a significant reward for their whereabouts too - Its almost not worth it.

 

[Davieson]

So you believe the child has had medical care and all necessary checks done when it and its parents have essentially been "wanted" by the police for 54 days and not one member of staff that checked the baby didn't bother to say a single word?

Good grief.

I tend to believe only official police statements

 

[DetectiveLawless]

I tend to believe only official police statements

Here you go then

It is believed Constance gave birth either in or near the car only a day or two earlier. Neither the baby nor Constance have received any medical attention. It is unknown if the baby was full-term or has any health issues, which is why officers remain committed to finding the family.

Renewed appeal for information on missing couple and newborn baby

It is now more than six weeks since the car Constance Marten and Mark Gordon went missing.

news.met.police.uk

 

[shadwell]

It looks like the nearest cashpoint is on the wall at Mulberrys off licence on Hollingbury Place, so prior to arrest they appear to have headed west past the first turn onto Hollingdean Terrace before going up Stanmer Villas. There’s thick woodland along Golf Drive, which is presumably where police started their search last night before moving up to the allotments and the wooded strip that runs alongside earlier today. Also a couple of car parks up there that look to have been park-ups for convoy type living vans in the past - not sure if thats’ still the case.