UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon & Newborn (found deceased), Bolton Greater Manchester, 5 Jan 2023 #2 *Arrest*

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infinit said:
There's a significant shift in the degree they go to cover up from the Norfolk to London CCTV. I am taking a guess that they knew the CCTV had been found and released and modified their behaviour.
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i'm trying to think what I might come up with if I were in their predicament and I'm drawing an absolute blank because i don't even have the faintest of ideas of how they might think or process information.
It feels like a fruitless exercise.
Nor can I even imagine the dynamic between them creating a third persona.. it's really really difficult.
She's away from all who knew her for 6 long years if that is accurate.
That's a long time.
 
kittythehare said:
i'm trying to think what I might come up with if I were in their predicament and I'm drawing an absolute blank because i don't even have the faintest of ideas of how they might think or process information.
It feels like a fruitless exercise.
Nor can I even imagine the dynamic between them creating a third persona.. it's really really difficult.
She's away from all who knew her for 6 long years if that is accurate.
That's a long time.
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I think it's even harder to figure out without knowing what their end goal is. I can only assume it's to get out of the country based on the visits to ports. But do they even have a plan for what to do when they get out the country? I don't understand how they expect to get on a boat.

I can think of an idea if I REALLY had to but it's not risk free and would require a fair bit of money potentially.
 
infinit said:
I think it's even harder to figure out without knowing what their end goal is. I can only assume it's to get out of the country based on the visits to ports. But do they even have a plan for what to do when they get out the country? I don't understand how they expect to get on a boat.

I can think of an idea if I REALLY had to but it's not risk free and would require a fair bit of money potentially.
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Are they even thinking straight?
Did they even have a reason for the port journeys?
What stopped them even trying to get on a boat?
Fear or paranoia or was it something like they thought a friend lived there and they were searching for accommodation?
where were they heading when the car broke?
were they resuming that journey or..?
Stumped.
Utterly stumped.
 
kittythehare said:
i'm trying to think what I might come up with if I were in their predicament and I'm drawing an absolute blank because i don't even have the faintest of ideas of how they might think or process information.
It feels like a fruitless exercise.
Nor can I even imagine the dynamic between them creating a third persona.. it's really really difficult.
She's away from all who knew her for 6 long years if that is accurate.
That's a long time.
Click to expand...

And the past six years - how likely is it they totally isolated themselves away from everyone or is it that nobody’s talking out of loyalty to them? Impossible to know….
 
Theoretically, if you were to run abroad you would need to get to the middle East and pass through several countries who would fully help and support our authorities.

This is all hypothetical and not what I'm saying has happened here but if there is a family court order and the local authority have obtained shared parental responsibility then going abroad also is an entirely different ball game as it would become international child abduction which is absolutely a criminal matter. Get permission to take a child abroad

If they were wanted for a criminal act in itself we would have more information as they would make it clear they are looking for xx in relation to yy crime.

The reporting difference between this and Nicola Bulley is stark to me too, they talk openly about NB to track her down but this one is hush hush. In MOO that also is a marker of there being more behind the scenes we won't be privy to.
 
I wonder if the sporadic cctv that turns up is directly after they've been to a bank to withdraw money or made a transaction of some sort (Argos). Then they scamper off in a cab and eventually evade cameras and hide out until they next need some cash and head to London? It would be dangerous for the family or police to try to disrupt their access to any bank account due to the baby.
 
I was concerned before, but i am really wondering how that baby must be surviving with the stress of it all. I just wonder what woukd possibly be the next step?
Theyve offered a reward, sent out pleas. They havent wanted to be in contact for 6 years before, i am concerned this could all be leading to panic and desperate choices.
 
jiminy said:
I wonder if the sporadic cctv that turns up is directly after they've been to a bank to withdraw money or made a transaction of some sort (Argos). Then they scamper off in a cab and eventually evade cameras and hide out until they next need some cash and head to London? It would be dangerous for the family or police to try to disrupt their access to any bank account due to the baby.
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If she is the beneficiary of a trust fund, only the trustee can change the dispersal of funds and only if it is a discretionary trust stipulated by the will.
I know a family who attempted this and failed, when someone draws up a will and arranges a trust, the wishes of the dead must be honored by law.
Even a criminal cannot have their bank account frozen without a court order and charges such as money laundering, terrorism, or writing bad checks.
 
everybodhi said:
Even a criminal cannot have their bank account frozen without a court order and charges such as money laundering, terrorism, or writing bad checks
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Rather to my shock, I discovered this isn't true during an incredibly messy break up. An ex of mine walked out, left me with a flat I couldn't afford by myself, managed to get a joint bank account (which we used for rent and bills) frozen so I had no way of paying the rent, all without going anywhere near the courts. Contrary to this link the bank didn't check with me first and nor was there any attempt to discuss how regular bills were going to be paid.
Joint bank accounts: what happens if you split up? - Rest Less

We run the risk of digressing at this point, but in summary it's alarmingly easy to get a joint bank account frozen.

We have no idea how CM's finances are organised though, beyond there being a trust fund. As she was in her late 20s when she became estranged she was past the ages where trust funds are typically restricted (18/21/25) and it seems unlikely (though possible) that she had a joint bank account with other family members
 
Trust funds are managed by Trustees who presumably can set lasting conditions if the fund holder has any specific health or care needs - mental health needs being the most obvious. I assume that's why she gets money in stages rather than having had it released.
 
Obergine said:
Trust funds are managed by Trustees who presumably can set lasting conditions if the fund holder has any specific health or care needs - mental health needs being the most obvious. I assume that's why she gets money in stages rather than having had it released.
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Do you have a source for the trust fund being released in stages?
 
rightsaidfred said:
Rather to my shock, I discovered this isn't true during an incredibly messy break up. An ex of mine walked out, left me with a flat I couldn't afford by myself, managed to get a joint bank account (which we used for rent and bills) frozen so I had no way of paying the rent, all without going anywhere near the courts. Contrary to this link the bank didn't check with me first and nor was there any attempt to discuss how regular bills were going to be paid.
Joint bank accounts: what happens if you split up? - Rest Less

We run the risk of digressing at this point, but in summary it's alarmingly easy to get a joint bank account frozen.

We have no idea how CM's finances are organised though, beyond there being a trust fund. As she was in her late 20s when she became estranged she was past the ages where trust funds are typically restricted (18/21/25) and it seems unlikely (though possible) that she had a joint bank account with other family members
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OT but I’m sorry that happened to you and I guess it could have been worse, they could have totally emptied the account.
I agree with you that it’s highly unlikely CM has a joint account with someone in her estranged birth family at this point in her life, but if anyone could and did freeze her account, the claim that the main concern is for the welfare of mother and baby would go out the window. Jmo.
 
Obergine said:
Trust funds are managed by Trustees who presumably can set lasting conditions if the fund holder has any specific health or care needs - mental health needs being the most obvious. I assume that's why she gets money in stages rather than having had it released.
Click to expand...
There can be stipulations in a “discretionary” trust, the decision on type of trust was made by the person who made the will, probably when she was a child.
Dispersal in stages is very common, families keep money, real estate, stocks, bonds, art, etc. in a trust mainly to protect assets from creditors, (even in bankruptcy), lawsuits, family disagreements, and for lower tax rates. They pay a fixed tax on the market value of assets based on the year they become eligible, as long as those assets remain in trust. Even as the assets value is growing.
So when the father’s family sold that mansion for millions a few years ago, the individuals who divided those funds would save tax money by keeping the proceeds in trust and also can protect it from any possible financial loss to creditors, (for instance a losing business investment), by only taking the money out as needed to live.
Edited to add: taking the funds as needed from a trust will result in a 7%-20% yearly income tax rate, depending on amount you take, as opposed to a straight inheritance (assets over £325,000 in the UK) which comes with a 40% inheritance tax.
 
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An aristocrat whose estranged daughter is missing with her rapist partner and their newborn baby has called for police to investigate her links with a Nigerian church where it is claimed she was “brainwashed”.

Napier Marten said he had “long-held suspicions” since Ms Marten returned from Lagos, where she spent several months at the Synagogue, Church of All Nations.
www.independent.co.uk

Constance Marten’s father tells police to probe cult – live

Ms Marten spent several months at the Church of All Nations in Lagos, father says
www.independent.co.uk www.independent.co.uk
 
QB2022 said:
Theoretically, if you were to run abroad you would need to get to the middle East and pass through several countries who would fully help and support our authorities.

This is all hypothetical and not what I'm saying has happened here but if there is a family court order and the local authority have obtained shared parental responsibility then going abroad also is an entirely different ball game as it would become international child abduction which is absolutely a criminal matter. Get permission to take a child abroad

If they were wanted for a criminal act in itself we would have more information as they would make it clear they are looking for xx in relation to yy crime.

The reporting difference between this and Nicola Bulley is stark to me too, they talk openly about NB to track her down but this one is hush hush. In MOO that also is a marker of there being more behind the scenes we won't be privy to.
Click to expand...
Apologies if you this is a stupid question, but why the Middle East?

My feeling (as I’ve mentioned much, much further up the thread) is that they may have had other children taken into care and believed their new baby would also be taken. However I think it’s possible that the order hadn’t yet been given (possibly no decision is made prior to the birth; I don’t know how it works), and so their leaving wouldn’t legally be child abduction.

I should say, though, that apart from an oblique reference in CM’s mother’s open letter I don’t believe there has ever been any confirmation of any children of theirs being taken into care, past present or future.

Either way it does seems as though their flight was to keep the baby away from someone, be it the state, family or some other 3rd party
 
Maltesepuppy said:
www.independent.co.uk

Abuse at the hands of ‘phoney prophet’: Inside cult linked to Constance Marten

Constance Marten’s friends say she wasn’t the same after her time in the cult
www.independent.co.uk www.independent.co.uk



This one is interesting too
Click to expand...
It mentions the that she “played along” at the church. I wasn’t super clear if she was there as an undercover journalist (who possibly got brainwashed anyway) or was a true believer who became disillusioned and then decided to make a documentary?
 
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