Recovered/Located UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon & Newborn, left a broken down car on motorway, Bolton Greater Manchester, 5 Jan 2023

[celinesleuth]

It’s been very cold in the UK this week, I hope the three of them are warm somewhere. Can’t believe they haven’t been found yet, I didn’t think it would be this long.

 

[JerricaBenton]

Speculation on my part. I wonder if she faked a miscarriage, after learning that social services would remove her baby at birth from her? If there were previous children who had already been removed, this is a real possibility, especially with his past. She may have told everyone she had lost the baby at 3/4 months, concealed for the remainder of the pregnancy and gone on the run when the baby was due. All in an attempt to keep the baby.

 

[wizardizzo76]

Speculation on my part. I wonder if she faked a miscarriage, after learning that social services would remove her baby at birth from her? If there were previous children who had already been removed, this is a real possibility, especially with his past. She may have told everyone she had lost the baby at 3/4 months, concealed for the remainder of the pregnancy and gone on the run when the baby was due. All in an attempt to keep the baby.

Yes, this thought just crossed my mind too

 

[kittythehare]

Speculation on my part. I wonder if she faked a miscarriage, after learning that social services would remove her baby at birth from her? If there were previous children who had already been removed, this is a real possibility, especially with his past. She may have told everyone she had lost the baby at 3/4 months, concealed for the remainder of the pregnancy and gone on the run when the baby was due. All in an attempt to keep the baby.

I imagine the placenta has been examined by health care professionals.
That will tell whether the baby was full term or had issues of concern

Placenta: Overview, Anatomy, Function & Complications

The placenta forms in your uterus during pregnancy. It provides oxygen and nutrients to your baby through the umbilical cord. It's delivered after your baby.

my.clevelandclinic.org

 

[everybodhi]

Marten’s father, Napier, points to an estrangement that began when his daughter met Gordon, tearing her away from family and friends to embark on an itinerant life


When she was nine, Constance’s father had what was described as an “awakening”. He later told how a voice in his head had told him to discard the £115m family fortune, shave his head and fly to Australia. Napier followed its bidding and, having duly shaved his head, had an out-of-body experience while standing on a cliff-top with a group of Aboriginal Australians. “Everything in my life materially was a completely empty shell,” he said. He lived in a lorry and trained in head massage.

The runaway heiress, her rapist partner and the aristocratic family rift

Her upbringing had all the trappings of high society, so how did Constance Marten come to be on the run for weeks on end with a sex offender 13 years her senior? Tom Ough reports

www.independent.co.uk

There are so many people at risk who need help, the resources being used for them are impressive.
Maybe she had a bad experience with NHS and now they are hiding in fear, seeing the bad press and knowing the police are looking for them.
Would a hospital come forward if they had turned them away?

From your link: BBM
There are now more than 200 officers searching for the couple, but they are moving furtively, hiding from cameras, paying in cash and believed to be booking hotels under pseudonyms…Detective Superintendent Lewis Basford, who is leading the investigation, said: “There is nothing to suggest that any of them have come to any sort of intentional harm – we just need to ensure they are OK, especially the baby, and do not require any medical assistance for any underlying issues.”

Woman in labour was forced to travel 40 miles to give birth after THREE NHS hospitals turned her away 'because they did not have enough midwives'
Midwives working in NHS trust maternity units typically work 12-hour shifts, but many work longer for no additional pay to cover staff shortages and to keep services running.
More than half of England's maternity units have received negative ratings for safety, according to the latest Care Quality Commission (CQC) reports.
Regulators rated 80 out of 193 NHS maternity services as 'inadequate' or 'requires improvement' in their latest inspections.
The low grades mean they do not meet basic safety standards, with some still failing years after problems were first identified.

Women in the UK are facing the biggest maternity crisis of our time, and we need to talk about it
The Royal College of Midwives has also reported that there is a shortage of over 2,000 midwives in England at the moment and in the past year 600 midwives have left the service.

Another expectant mother told us: “I suffer really badly with White Coat Syndrome and anything too clinical sets me off. I chose my local midwife-led centre because it felt so different from the traditional labour ward. I have been low risk during my pregnancy and I wanted a relaxed birth in a calming setting. I feel this has been taken away from me entirely. I expect if this was a man’s experience things would have changed by now, women like me feel completely stripped of choice.”

Edited to make sure I’m within 10% rule

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Their car was found abandoned and on fire on the M61 near Bolton on 5 January.

Ms Marten was later seen on CCTV carrying the baby as the family made their way to Liverpool, Harwich, Colchester, and then east London.

Sources close to the investigation, involving three separate police forces, told The Daily Telegraph that emergency service staff called to the car fire noticed a placenta in the back seat.

It follows revelations that Mr Gordon had raped one of his neighbours armed with a pair of garden shears during a hostage situation when he was a teenager.

Police evidence that aristocrat gave birth in back of car - live

Emergency services allegedly noticed a placenta in back seat of abandoned car

www.independent.co.uk

 

[4441]

I'm wondering if they moved to avoid something in the UK. It seems a rapid change to go from a normal 14 year old to sex offender/burgular in a new country in a matter of months.

Very good point.
It’s extreme offending with a lot of violence and he was alone. So not acting under pressure from peers etc. And I can’t see 20 years of incarceration mellowing someone.
No wonder C’s family have been concerned.

 

[kittythehare]

There are so many people at risk who need help, the resources being used for them are impressive.
Maybe she had a bad experience with NHS and now they are hiding in fear, seeing the bad press and knowing the police are looking for them.
Would a hospital come forward if they had turned them away?

From your link: BBM
There are now more than 200 officers searching for the couple, but they are moving furtively, hiding from cameras, paying in cash and believed to be booking hotels under pseudonyms…Detective Superintendent Lewis Basford, who is leading the investigation, said: “There is nothing to suggest that any of them have come to any sort of intentional harm – we just need to ensure they are OK, especially the baby, and do not require any medical assistance for any underlying issues.”

Woman in labour was forced to travel 40 miles to give birth after THREE NHS hospitals turned her away 'because they did not have enough midwives'
Midwives working in NHS trust maternity units typically work 12-hour shifts, but many work longer for no additional pay to cover staff shortages and to keep services running.
More than half of England's maternity units have received negative ratings for safety, according to the latest Care Quality Commission (CQC) reports.
Regulators rated 80 out of 193 NHS maternity services as 'inadequate' or 'requires improvement' in their latest inspections.
The low grades mean they do not meet basic safety standards, with some still failing years after problems were first identified.

Women in the UK are facing the biggest maternity crisis of our time, and we need to talk about it
The Royal College of Midwives has also reported that there is a shortage of over 2,000 midwives in England at the moment and in the past year 600 midwives have left the service.

Another expectant mother told us: “I suffer really badly with White Coat Syndrome and anything too clinical sets me off. I chose my local midwife-led centre because it felt so different from the traditional labour ward. I have been low risk during my pregnancy and I wanted a relaxed birth in a calming setting. I feel this has been taken away from me entirely. I expect if this was a man’s experience things would have changed by now, women like me feel completely stripped of choice.”

Edited to make sure I’m within 10% rule

Could be that she had access to alternative health practitioners for advice and possibly remedies too.
I wish she would at least confirm that she is alive.

 

[FruitTingles]

Speculation on my part. I wonder if she faked a miscarriage, after learning that social services would remove her baby at birth from her? If there were previous children who had already been removed, this is a real possibility, especially with his past. She may have told everyone she had lost the baby at 3/4 months, concealed for the remainder of the pregnancy and gone on the run when the baby was due. All in an attempt to keep the baby.

This is exactly what I think is happening. JMO.

 

[Sarahlou]

This is exactly what I think is happening. JMO.

Me too. It's the only thing that really makes sense.

 

[Lucy6226]

I imagine the placenta has been examined by health care professionals.
That will tell whether the baby was full term or had issues of concern

Placenta: Overview, Anatomy, Function & Complications

The placenta forms in your uterus during pregnancy. It provides oxygen and nutrients to your baby through the umbilical cord. It's delivered after your baby.

my.clevelandclinic.org

Which might be the reason why they are so concerned about the baby's wellbeing

 

[4441]

This is exactly what I think is happening. JMO.

Which might be the reason why they are so concerned about the baby's wellbeing

Yes I agree- I wasn’t sure how much they could know from the placenta but actually they may be able to tell a lot. And that might be what is so worrisome.
It all makes a bit more sense now. The urgency to find them I mean.

 

[Rolypolyoly]

Me too. It's the only thing that really makes sense.

It makes more sense to to just not tell anyone she was pregnant in the first place. Imo

 

[jackal67]

I'm wondering if they moved to avoid something in the UK. It seems a rapid change to go from a normal 14 year old to sex offender/burgular in a new country in a matter of months.

It's not that easy to just go and live in USA is it?

 

[jackal67]

Speculation on my part. I wonder if she faked a miscarriage, after learning that social services would remove her baby at birth from her? If there were previous children who had already been removed, this is a real possibility, especially with his past. She may have told everyone she had lost the baby at 3/4 months, concealed for the remainder of the pregnancy and gone on the run when the baby was due. All in an attempt to keep the baby.

Not sure why she needed to tell anyone she was pregnant if she was worried about SS ? Move to a new area where they are not known would make more sense to me?

 

[4441]

Not sure why she needed to tell anyone she was pregnant if she was worried about SS ? Move to a new area where they are not known would make more sense to me?

I agree. I don’t see why they would have mentioned the pregnancy to anyone in the first place.
I haven’t found anything about why they moved from the last property but I think I read on here that it was in a bad condition when they left. All very chaotic for them I’m sure.
Drug addiction is the most likely problem here although that’s purely my speculation.
I work in a field where I see mothers who have children removed against their wishes and it is often because they will not leave a man who is deemed dangerous. So it could be that mother is healthy but just not showing the right behaviour that she can protect her children. But it could also be that substance abuse is a part of their lives and that would make it important to check the baby. This seems to make the most sense to me.
I realise I’m just echoing what others have said. I have nothing new to add but I’m thinking about this case a lot and I keep checking back here to see if there are any updates.

 

[4441]

When I read about the crimes committed by MG at aged 14 I can’t see how he could have been ok up until that age. That’s incredibly awful and violent crimes against his neighbours and there’s clearly something seriously wrong with anyone who can commit such acts. <modsnip>

 

[sunnynz]

I think it is worth noting that this article that has been posted more than once is an opinion piece, and clearly labeled as such. He is not working on the case, and has no more information about the circumstances that we do. He is using his experience as a former law enforcement officer, yes, but it remains his speculation. Just like what we do here.

Opinion: Here’s how Constance Marten and Mark Gordon are evading detection

I have spent decades tracking down wanted people – even those who had evaded the police for years

www.independent.co.uk

Can you summarise for those of us who aren’t subscribers?

 

[Lindsay Lou Who]

I have just caught up with the last few days of the thread. I am really hoping we hear some news soon regarding Constance and baby's wellbeing.

Am I right that the last sighting of either of them was 7th January? Its very worrying that none of them have been seen, especially with so much media attention and police resources being used. The more time that goes by the more concerned I feel about the outcome.
Apologies if I am repeating any points made by other members following their disappearance. I hope Constance has willingly travelled with Mark and he has reformed. However my concern is given his very violent past, there could be dv, coercive control, intimidation or manipulation happening.
Let's hope for a positive update soon.
MOO

 

[Observant-ADHD-ENFP-BSc]

Yes I agree- I wasn’t sure how much they could know from the placenta, but actually they may be able to tell a lot. And that might be what is so worrisome.
It all makes a bit more sense now. The urgency to find them I mean.

I had pre-eclampsia with my fourth child, and she was delivered via emergency cesarean at 28 weeks. She eventually came home four months later, but they did do a biopsy of my placenta. I was amazed at the level and extent of the detailed results. They matched many morphologies in the placenta to the pre-eclampsia and the secondary symptoms the pre-eclampsia had encouraged.
ETA: After my hysterectomy, they also did a biopsy of my womb, tube (they left one) and cervix. The level of detail in that was amazing too, proving the advice to remove was warranted