Recovered/Located UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon & Newborn, left a broken down car on motorway, Bolton Greater Manchester, 5 Jan 2023

[kittythehare]

<modsnip - quoted post snipped>

I think the cult stuff is largely irrelevant as it was quite some time before she became estranged. I think it is only really relevant in showing that she is vulnerable. JMO

She was well out of it, 2012 and she pitched AlJaz to do an expose which proves that. (mail article)

It is no longer an issue or a clue IMO and I don't know why the sister of him is even bringing it up.

He did his time, 20 years is a long punishment. he has discharged his debt to society if we are to accept the meaning of the law.
I'm not sure how he lived since his return to UK or whether there were any red flags.

It's impossible to guess who is leading who in this case.

If they have money they should be okay but I don't know whether they do or not.
The only disturbing aspect is reports by neighbours that they had heard shouting in the last address. I don't know how accurate those reports are.
If she had previous experience of pregnancy and childbirth it makes a difference.

She seems to be a truly lovely lady and I sincerely hope she is safe and well.

The 'rapist' headlines are more likely to drive them deeper underground IMO and are not helping at all.

If they don't want to be found they won't be found. If they have resources.
But I still wish she would let anybody know she is still alive.

 

[kittythehare]

I don't think it started very well either. Anyone think it's possible there was a multiple birth?

No.

 

[dotr]

Jan 23 2023 rbbm

Constance Marten and sex offender boyfriend could already be overseas with baby, ex-police chief warns

More than 100 Metropolitan Police officers are involved in the unique case

news.yahoo.com

''Missing aristocrat Constance Marten and her sex offender boyfriend could already be overseas with their newborn baby, a former police chief has warned.

Metropolitan Police officers are desperately trying to find the mother, her baby and Mark Gordon after their car burst into flames on the M61 in Bolton, Greater Manchester, on 5 January.

The force said it has used more than 100 officers and has trawled through more than 223 CCTV hours in the investigation, in addition to enlisting support from the National Crime Agency (NCA).

Former Greater Manchester Police chief constable Sir Peter Fahy said while there are some “unusual” elements of the investigation, the amount of resources behind the search in addition to the involvement of the NCA suggests the family could already be overseas.

“The NCA has the network of officers in foreign embassies so anything to do with foreign liaison goes through the NCA,” Sir Peter told The Independent.''

Anyone who has information on the family’s whereabouts should call the incident room on 020 7175 0785.

Alternatively, information can be reported 100 per cent anonymously to the independent charity Crimestoppers on 0800 555 111. They never ask for personal details and they do not trace your device.''

 

[Stunned]

DBM

Interesting that Police don't mention a time that the car broke down??
It is said that a Car fire, which could be unrelated but just a coincidence closed the motorway at about 18:20
The Motorway was then opened at around midnight that night.

Makes me wonder now if maybe it was for a search all that time and not really for a fire. IMO

 

[JuicyLucy]

Yeah I don't know how it is in the UK but here in the Northeast USA car fires on the highways are not an even remotely common occurrence, unless it's the 1970's and you lived near the Bronx Expressway. And to close a road for that long sounds like an lengthy investigation took place...for some electrical issues on an abandoned car?

<modsnip - no links to substantiate information posted as fact> Anecdotally, having never seen a vehicle fire in my life until now, I saw two in two days while on a long journey recently, <modsnip>.

I suspect the lengthy road closure will have been because of finding blood and what we now know to be the placenta in the abandoned car. On first sight, it probably looked like a crime scene and the fire was probably suspected of being started deliberately to destroy evidence, so it will have been investigated through that prism.

JMO

 

[Stunned]

IMO They fled because newborn would be unlikely to be able to stay with her if she remained in a relationship with him.
<modsnip - victim blaming>

Is that a law in UK? I know of a sex offender in NC who was raising children with his wife. They’re separated now. I don’t know why and don’t care enough about him to ask.

 

[MistyWaters]

Without knowing more, it’s seems to be unbased speculation that MG was placed on SOR in UK after being extradited from the US in 2010. If he was, that requirement may have expired by now. Most often SA against children is considered a more serious offence, which MG was not convicted of.

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn05267/

“ The notification requirements are imposed automatically on offenders convicted of certain offences in the UK but can also be imposed on offenders convicted overseas. The notification requirements are imposed for a fixed or indefinite period, depending on the sentence received. The penalties for breaching notification requirements range from a fine to imprisonment for up to five years.”

 

[Alyce]

DBM

Interesting that Police don't mention a time that the car broke down??
It is said that a Car fire, which could be unrelated but just a coincidence closed the motorway at about 18:20
The Motorway was then opened at around midnight that night.

Ms Marten, her partner Mark Gordon and the baby have been missing since their vehicle broke down near junction four of the M61, near Bolton, on Thursday evening.

Missing mother and newborn baby 'may have been spotted twice in Essex'

Greater Manchester Police (GMP) believe Constance Marten was possibly seen first near Harwich Port on Saturday at 9am and then in Colchester around an hour later.

www.dailymail.co.uk

At 18.33hrs on Thursday, 5 January, officers were called to a car on fire on the hard-shoulder of the M61, near junction four (Farnworth, Bolton). However, the occupants were not at the scene.

Rapist partner of aristocrat missing with their newborn ‘unable to leave country’

Previous reports suggest the pair could already be overseas

www.independent.co.uk

 

[YaYa_521]

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[JuicyLucy]

<modsnip - no links to substantiate information posted as fact> Anecdotally, having never seen a vehicle fire in my life until now, I saw two in two days while on a long journey recently, <modsnip>.

I suspect the lengthy road closure will have been because of finding blood and what we now know to be the placenta in the abandoned car. On first sight, it probably looked like a crime scene and the fire was probably suspected of being started deliberately to destroy evidence, so it will have been investigated through that prism.

JMO

Just adding links so that the point I was wanting to make is hopefully a bit better evidenced now.

A leading cause of car fires is inadequate vehicle maintenance.

Common Causes of Car Fires, Prevention, and What to Do if Your Car Caught on Fire
Vehicle Fires

There is a certain amount of evidence that the cost of living crisis in the UK this winter is leading people to skimp on the costs of vehicle maintenance.

Cost of living crisis forcing motorists to skimp on vehicle upkeep - autotechnician - servicing the independent workshop
Drivers avoiding vehicle maintenance as cost-of-living crisis bites

In my opinion, there may be some truth to this, as I have seen two vehicle fires on motorways recently, having never ever seen one before.

In my opinion, this may have been the issue with CM and MG's vehicle given that the one thing we know about it is that it was sold for cash, presumably by someone who was in need of cash (JMO).

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/constance-marten-news-–-live-car-left-burning-on-motorway-paid-for-in-cash-days-prior/ar-AA16Ccje

I am speculating that the amount of time the motorway was closed for relates less to the inherently suspicious nature of a burning car - particularly if car fires are possibly on the increase - and more to the blood and birth products we now know to have been on the back seat, which, in conjunction with the fire, may originally have looked like the intentional destruction of crime scene evidence.

Missing aristocrat Constance Marten may have 'given birth in back of car'

Apologies for not showing my working in my first attempt.

 

[wizardizzo76]

View attachment 397182
Jan 23 2023 rbbm

Constance Marten and sex offender boyfriend could already be overseas with baby, ex-police chief warns

More than 100 Metropolitan Police officers are involved in the unique case

news.yahoo.com

''Missing aristocrat Constance Marten and her sex offender boyfriend could already be overseas with their newborn baby, a former police chief has warned.

Metropolitan Police officers are desperately trying to find the mother, her baby and Mark Gordon after their car burst into flames on the M61 in Bolton, Greater Manchester, on 5 January.

The force said it has used more than 100 officers and has trawled through more than 223 CCTV hours in the investigation, in addition to enlisting support from the National Crime Agency (NCA).

Former Greater Manchester Police chief constable Sir Peter Fahy said while there are some “unusual” elements of the investigation, the amount of resources behind the search in addition to the involvement of the NCA suggests the family could already be overseas.

“The NCA has the network of officers in foreign embassies so anything to do with foreign liaison goes through the NCA,” Sir Peter told The Independent.''

Anyone who has information on the family’s whereabouts should call the incident room on 020 7175 0785.

Alternatively, information can be reported 100 per cent anonymously to the independent charity Crimestoppers on 0800 555 111. They never ask for personal details and they do not trace your device.''

The fact they are involving the NCA surely means they are investigating what they perceive to be a crime, rather than just a missing person? <modsnip - off topic>

 

[JumpingFrog]

Are people like NCA/media attention because CM is from such historic (noble/royal links) aristocracy? Absolutely no judgement from me, I would empathise and worry whether one was, or wasn't. Hopefully not against the rules. Just musing.

 

[JuicyLucy]

Constance Marten and sex offender boyfriend could already be overseas with baby, ex-police chief warns

I find it interesting that the idea they may already have left the country is now being seriously discussed. I daresay slipping out of the country is possible for an ordinary person even while technically missing and being looked for, but CM and MG have been the subject of intense media scrutiny for two weeks now and are not inconspicuous as a couple imo. Further, they are - or at least she is, if they've travelled separately - accompanied by a newborn baby that has no passport.

Do we really think that leaving the country without being spotted and stopped is very likely? I'd be interested to know how people think it would have been accomplished. I find it unlikely myself.

If people who know what they're talking about (such as the former chief constable quoted in the article) are thinking along those lines, then I wonder if it's being assumed at this point that the baby hasn't survived. While desperately sad, if that were the case then getting out of the country on, say, a borrowed passport would be a lot easier for them, particularly separately.

I can see it might also seem more urgently necessary to get abroad if the baby has died. If coming forward has seemed increasingly impossible because of all the media revelations to date, then how much harder would it become if whatever was originally being investigated expands to include a neonatal death. I think a lot of us would panic in their shoes.

Apologies if this is upsetting territory. It just seems to me that the tone of the investigation might be changing subtly.

JMO/Speculation only.

 

[sunnynz]

We don’t know if MG is on any kind of SO register in the UK.

I find it really upsetting that - as reported in multiple articles - it seems that C had given birth up to a couple of days prior to the car fire. What kind of mental state are they in if they’ve left the placenta etc on the back seat of the car for any period of time. From my own birth experiences that’s a messy situation that would quickly become unhygienic if not cleaned up. It makes me sad for C and baby.

 

[caradana]

…

Do we really think that leaving the country without being spotted and stopped is very likely? I'd be interested to know how people think it would have been accomplished. I find it unlikely myself.

…

Thoughtful question. I can share an anecdote from my own life. I spent years living in a specific place where aristocratic affluence was common, and it struck me, even then at 18, how comfortable some of my new friends were with the language of private aviation. Airfields, small craft, manifests. Difficult to associate passengers authoritatively with tail numbers. Not hard at all when a person is experienced with that as a socioeconomic and cultural norm. Sounds like outer space to many Americans, I realize.

 

[Earthwindfire]

Thoughtful question. I can share an anecdote from my own life. I spent years living in a specific place where aristocratic affluence was common, and it struck me, even then at 18, how comfortable some of my new friends were with the language of private aviation. Airfields, small craft, manifests. Difficult to associate passengers authoritatively with tail numbers. Not hard at all when a person is experienced with that as a socioeconomic and cultural norm. Sounds like outer space to many Americans, I realize.

That’s a really good point and hasn’t occurred to me. There are a lot of private airfields around.

 

[JumpingFrog]

We don’t know if MG is on any kind of SO register in the UK.

I find it really upsetting that - as reported in multiple articles - it seems that C had given birth up to a couple of days prior to the car fire. What kind of mental state are they in if they’ve left the placenta etc on the back seat of the car for any period of time. From my own birth experiences that’s a messy situation that would quickly become unhygienic if not cleaned up. It makes me sad for C and baby.

Well, we don't know anything like that. Remember lotus births are a thing, we're just Western people with western ideas...
And many people use their placentas in western cultures nowadays - freeze it, grind it for capsules...consume it.
Not stating I think CM would (or wouldn't). Just observing that a lot of Western people are far removed from practises observed in the rest of the world.

 

[wizardizzo76]

We don’t know if MG is on any kind of SO register in the UK.

I find it really upsetting that - as reported in multiple articles - it seems that C had given birth up to a couple of days prior to the car fire. What kind of mental state are they in if they’ve left the placenta etc on the back seat of the car for any period of time. From my own birth experiences that’s a messy situation that would quickly become unhygienic if not cleaned up. It makes me sad for C and baby.

It's been pretty cold. Most fridges are below 7°c and in January, northern England hasn't gone above that.

 

[sunshineray]

Constance Marten and sex offender boyfriend could already be overseas with baby, ex-police chief warns

I find it interesting that the idea they may already have left the country is now being seriously discussed. I daresay slipping out of the country is possible for an ordinary person even while technically missing and being looked for, but CM and MG have been the subject of intense media scrutiny for two weeks now and are not inconspicuous as a couple imo. Further, they are - or at least she is, if they've travelled separately - accompanied by a newborn baby that has no passport.

Do we really think that leaving the country without being spotted and stopped is very likely? I'd be interested to know how people think it would have been accomplished. I find it unlikely myself.

If people who know what they're talking about (such as the former chief constable quoted in the article) are thinking along those lines, then I wonder if it's being assumed at this point that the baby hasn't survived. While desperately sad, if that were the case then getting out of the country on, say, a borrowed passport would be a lot easier for them, particularly separately.

I can see it might also seem more urgently necessary to get abroad if the baby has died. If coming forward has seemed increasingly impossible because of all the media revelations to date, then how much harder would it become if whatever was originally being investigated expands to include a neonatal death. I think a lot of us would panic in their shoes.

Apologies if this is upsetting territory. It just seems to me that the tone of the investigation might be changing subtly.

JMO/Speculation only.

Maybe they recieved help leaving the country from a private party with means? I'm only theorizing this because CM's background seems to have been a very socially connected one and she was well thought of and loved. AJMO

 

[sunshineray]

Thoughtful question. I can share an anecdote from my own life. I spent years living in a specific place where aristocratic affluence was common, and it struck me, even then at 18, how comfortable some of my new friends were with the language of private aviation. Airfields, small craft, manifests. Difficult to associate passengers authoritatively with tail numbers. Not hard at all when a person is experienced with that as a socioeconomic and cultural norm. Sounds like outer space to many Americans, I realize.

I was thinking this and also by sea. Yachting is also a part of that group you speak of, correct?