UK - Healthcare worker arrested on suspicion of murder/attempted murder of a number of babies, 2018

[Bakers]

What is a potential victim does anyone know ? Attempted murder of a potential victim I've never heard of that ? Thank you x

 

[Marg from Oz]

What is a potential victim does anyone know ? Attempted murder of a potential victim I've never heard of that ? Thank you x

I can't figure that out either.

 

[Bakers]

I can't figure that out either.

I can't figure that out either.

One attempted murder of a potential victim shes than charged with murder of the same child.I just don't understand what a potential victim means xx

 

[Pimlipo]

I don’t know and have never heard it said like that either. We don’t know how these babies died do we? Could it be something like relating to medicine or injections etc that could have been tampered with without her knowing who the recipient would be? I don’t know if that makes sense

 

[Marantz4250b]

One attempted murder of a potential victim shes than charged with murder of the same child.I just don't understand what a potential victim means xx

I think it's nothing more than she attempted to murder one child, failed, and then tried again successfully. Potential victim until becoming an actual victim. Just badly phrased, I think.

If that is indeed the case then it's another reason as to why this case is so utterly bizarre and beyond the norm, in my view.

 

[polerina]

Not been here for a while but this case brought me back! I did not go through all posts but i live I staffs UK where one of our hospitals .....south staffs used a scapegoat or two for failings within NHS. It's does go on.

But the story about the triplets and her killing two within a day of each other just sways me so much! The fact they found it hard to bring the newborns bk to life is odd as is the motteling of the skin after death.
I don't know why but instantly syringe came to mind when searching guttering, i guess it's took so long to rearrest as they were tracing all deaths on her watch which would be extensive. I just can't understand if they r so sure why not arrest her in the first place OR Sooner over at least one death so she was in prison then they could gather more evidence and charge her with the rest......2 years seems a long *advertiser censored* time

I agree, 2 years is a really long time.
It is a long time for the families of the deceased to wait for answers and it is a long time for Lucy to have a multiple murder charge hanging over her - obviously if she is guilty of the crimes then fair enough, but imagine if she were to be found innocent, many years of her life would have been taken up with this case. An unimaginable stress.

I guess the case involves so many charges, pertaining to so many different victims and such serious charges that gathering the evidence and putting the case together has taken years.

 

[polerina]

What is a potential victim does anyone know ? Attempted murder of a potential victim I've never heard of that ? Thank you x

I think it is just clunky phraseology - if you attempt to murder someone they are still a victim regardless as to whether they actually die or not, so I don't know why the word 'potential' needs to be there!

 

[polerina]

And yeah two charges relate to one victim, so an attempted murder which failed, then a completed murder. Absolutly shocking.

 

[Marantz4250b]

And yeah two charges relate to one victim, so an attempted murder which failed, then a completed murder. Absolutly shocking.

If true!

 

[HollyHunter9]

I really struggle to get my head around this case. I think when it goes to trial and more evidence comes to light I think we will all be really shocked. I just don't know if I think she did it, something keeps niggling at me that perhaps she just wasn't very good at her job and failings within the hospital failed to pick up on it. But then on the other hand to be charged with 8 separate murder counts plus 10 attempted murders, they must have a lot of overwhelming evidence to support the charges? I'm actually on the bench, can't decide either way

 

[MrsWatson]

I'm also struggling to get my head around this one, for the same reasons everyone has pointed out.

It just seems so incredible that if she was this baby killer, not one person she worked with or knew had even one tiny glimpse of something going on with her? She worked among trained medical professionals, one would think they would be more alert to something "off" with someone.

I really hope that they have some incredibly compelling evidence, because if not, this poor young woman's life is ruined either way.

MOO

 

[TXCrinumLady]

One has to wonder whether she was suspected very early on and they have been watching and observing her. Hence, the CCTV, etc. It seems they had some "inside" information or something. Digging up her yard, etc. IMO, her looks have nothing to do with the ghastly crime of killing babies. UGH. I am anxiously awaiting the evidence they have on her. It must be quite telling.

 

[Kasmeer]

I'm in the same boat as many others here, just waiting for it to come to trial so we can hear the evidence - surely they wouldn't have charged her without a smoking gun, surely? Yet from what info we have access to, she seems rather unlikely to be the type to commit these crimes... if there even were any crimes and not just a run of poor care/bad luck! Hopefully the evidence really is clear and doesn't leave any doubt either way, as I hate the thought of a miscarriage of justice, or, even if found not guilty, her life being ruined by forever having this hung over her.

 

[Rosegold68]

really? whats the 'type' to commit these crimes then? what makes her 'unlikely to be the type'?

 

[Parker Knoll]

She’s in court today at Liverpool. NB 2pm

 

[musicaljoke]

One attempted murder of a potential victim shes than charged with murder of the same child.I just don't understand what a potential victim means xx

It may mean that she planned and prepared what was needed to murder the child, but was halted in her tracks. Afterwards, she murdered the child.

This attempted murder of a potential victim suggests to me that there is evidence of intent to murder, and makes me doubt the possibility that the babies died a natural death on her watch.

 

[Kasmeer]

really? whats the 'type' to commit these crimes then? what makes her 'unlikely to be the type'?

There's no one "type", but in my opinion, one who is not the type would be a woman who is in a caring profession, seemingly has a stable life and background, apparently has nobody who can say a bad word about them, and apparently has no dirt whatsoever that the press can dig up about them.

None of those factors alone are that unlikely (although very few doctors or nurses spring to mind outside of Shipman and Allitt, both of whom had red flags aplenty dug up about them once they were named), but the combination is surprising. Not impossible, but surprising to me, hence my reluctance to jump to conclusions before seeing the evidence.

 

[Kemug]

Regarding "type", yes I am with those who say that there's no one type to do something like this. However - one thing we do know (or don't we?) is that, for example, paedophiles often deliberately get themselves into positions of trust working with children, eg teachers, scout masters, baby sitters. In numerous cases, it wasn't the job that came first. So might someone working with babies have a similar story? Just a thought.

 

[Marantz4250b]

I really struggle to get my head around this case. I think when it goes to trial and more evidence comes to light I think we will all be really shocked. I just don't know if I think she did it, something keeps niggling at me that perhaps she just wasn't very good at her job and failings within the hospital failed to pick up on it. But then on the other hand to be charged with 8 separate murder counts plus 10 attempted murders, they must have a lot of overwhelming evidence to support the charges? I'm actually on the bench, can't decide either way

That crossed my mind when I first heard of it but I think that we'll find that not to be the case. She has been described as being extremely committed to her job and was also a very committed student. Also, she was used as a the face of a fund raising campaign and gave interviews. I don't think they'd have used her if anyone had the slightest misgivings about her competence.

This is another reason as to why I don't think she's an attention seeker like Allitt was. Allitt wasn't particularly good at her job and barely slid through the training, she had reason to draw attention to herself.

 

[Marantz4250b]

I really struggle to get my head around this case. I think when it goes to trial and more evidence comes to light I think we will all be really shocked. I just don't know if I think she did it, something keeps niggling at me that perhaps she just wasn't very good at her job and failings within the hospital failed to pick up on it. But then on the other hand to be charged with 8 separate murder counts plus 10 attempted murders, they must have a lot of overwhelming evidence to support the charges? I'm actually on the bench, can't decide either way

That crossed my mind when I first heard of it but I think that we'll find that not to be the case. She has been described as being extremely committed to her job and was also a very committed student. Also, she was used as a the face of a fund raising campaign and gave interviews. I don't think they'd have used her if anyone had the slightest misgivings about her competence.

This is another reason as to why I don't think she's an attention seeker like Allitt was. Allitt wasn't particularly good at her job and barely slid through the training, she had reason to draw attention to herself.

One has to wonder whether she was suspected very early on and they have been watching and observing her. Hence, the CCTV, etc. It seems they had some "inside" information or something. Digging up her yard, etc. IMO, her looks have nothing to do with the ghastly crime of killing babies. UGH. I am anxiously awaiting the evidence they have on her. It must be quite telling.

I'm not sure what the score with any CCTV actually is. Don't know if they've said if they have any but I can't recall mention of it. If they had damning CCTV evidence then I don't think they would have waited two and a half years to arrest her.

Also, if they had suspected her and felt that they needed to watch her then it would be totally unacceptable to let her near patients. In any event, I think it was the case that she was placed on admin duties right around the time they started to suspect excess deaths so I think it unlikely were watching her.