Found Deceased UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen getting into taxi outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #5 *ARREST*

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Compare Newland, Humberside Police - Police.uk

In the year ending September 2018, the crime rate in Kingston upon Hull was higher than the average crime rate across similar areas.

So I am guessing the police would have good experience in crime.

Well, sadly depends what you mean by 'experience' in crime.

Humberside Police's motto used to be Help - Protect - Reassure, they had to abandon that when the population constantly berated them for failing on all three.

Again, not wanting to derail the thread! Sorry it's a long one!

tldr; an overview of the area of Hull between Welly and Haworth in the Beverley Road area over the last 2 years and the sudden spike in crime:


This video was shot a few months ago about a quarter of a mile from the Welly Club.

At the very start of the video, the camera is pointing north West - about 50 yards along the road off to the right of the screen is a Police station. That was put there for the Park, which is also about 50 yards off to the right, about 15 years ago? But at the start of 2018 it was demanned and moved to a station about 3 miles away.

Literally the day after the Police moved out, it was like precinct 13. We felt this part of the city take a turn off a steep cliff, we FELT the crime rise steeply. People around here talk about the area getting noticeably worse by the week and by the DAY! There are coppers around here constantly responding to incidents and violence.

The house on the end of the right of the terrace where it's being filmed is a social housing hostel, and is ALWAYS full of drug dealers. Generally the windows get put through once a month, and the Police are at this crossroads at least weekly, and once or twice a week along this short street.

According to the Police there are 'bad people' who come from Manchester to tax the dealers in this street.

The guy in red is drunk and is trying to score some spice and is not happy. He's already been up and down yelling at people, it's close to school home time. At 1:10 he can be seen 'talking' to a guy with a dog. The guy with the dog is the local heroin/spice/crack dealer and that's his house he's outside. He's lived here for years, so I know him to say 'hello' to, and apart from trying to sell me a bike every now and then, he doesn't bring any trouble, funnily enough, to my door, unlike the dealers at the other end.

Just after the filming stopped the dealer with the dog saw the guy in red off and was shouting at him.

With absolutely ZERO exaggeration, this heroin/spice dealer was complaining that the area was getting worse, I kid you not. Our local heroin dealer is complaining about the downturn in the neighbourhood.

Last year about halfway between here and Welly a man was stabbed to death over a drugs argument. Around the time the video was taken a new dealer moved in and within a week was lying on that cycle path you can see crossing the street to the far left, having been stabbed by guys who had come to tax him.

Just before Christmas I 'found' a semi-conscious 15 year old girl lying along that cycle path about 1am after a saturday night crying that she'd been spiked. I got her home safely.

You can walk along this street at 3.30 in the afternoon and you can watch blokes sat on the pavement openly dividing their score up on pieces of paper, mothers and children walking by.

I have started to slowly try to document the goings on here, but I have to be careful and subtle. People think I exaggerate. You can plainly hear their orders too, they shout it 100 yards down the street, "2 brown and 3 white", this crossroads is s hotspot for people just hanging around and cars parked across it, all hours of the night, dealing obviously.

I was beaten up by a gang of kids on this street about 9 months ago that left me on crutches for 2 weeks. So picture this, I'm lying on the street, in the middle of this junction, getting the life kicked, stamped and beaten out of me by 2 kids raining down on me. In this hails of fists and feet I manage to have the presence to get my phone out and dial 999, only to receive "You are on hold for the emergency services".

A neighbour was watching the entire assault unfold from her bedroom window; she too received "You are on hold for the emergency services". After I had ran for my life on a busted knee, I eventually got through, but because I had given them the slip by now and they were not in sight, I was told it was not an emergency.

All this may not be directly related, but since the City of Culture (2017) concentrated on the City Centre, we have all seen a MASSIVE drop in ALL areas outside the centre. Serious social commentators are calling this place the English Detroit and they're watching it happen live, and we are living it.

The Police are in general retreat, they are losing control. Hull has always had problems and bad areas, but all this is new and is less than 2 years old.

This is my local shop, on Beverley Road about 1/4 mile from the Welly.
The crime-riddled Aldi where staff go to extreme lengths to stop lawlessness

Shopper Susanne Wilson, 48, said: "I was walking around the store for 20 minutes trying to find the coffee and literally couldn't find it.

"I was told by staff members that they had to removed from close to the door because people would run in, pick it up and run out with it."

Gangs on this Hull estate are so bad buses won't even stop there
One woman told of an attack that could have killed passengers

It's along time since we've heard of buses refusing to go on estates! (2-3 miles from the main area in question and certainly NOT a student area, but indicative of the current trend downwards across the city.)

People are talking in terms of a sudden lurch to the bad old days of the 80s with large no go areas and entire run down streets and buses afraid to travel into certain areas.

There are potholes everywhere, there is more rubbish and fly tipping, and rats are out of control.



Newland Avenue:
Newland Avenue is the heart of student land, and also the heart of this local community. Students and old skool families live cheek by cheek in this area of Hull, a pretty unique blend, giving Newland Avenue a unique character, and safe day and night for decades. That has changed in less than 2 years. People are staying away from Newland Avenue during the day because of crime, muggings, street beggars, street drunks, spice addicts and random violence. At night the addition of more bars and later licenses is alienating residents and creating a Mini-Magaluf from 1am till 3am.

Angry traders: 'Street drinkers are turning Avenues into a cesspit'
They think the city centre rough sleepers have migrated - and they are not happy about it


In very short time it has seen a real spike in crime.



The Piper Club is the other main student dive in this area, on Newland Avenue, not far from the end of Raglan Street. It's much more of a meat factory than Welly, they do things like Hawaiian night in November when people go in swimwear.

There is a lot of foot traffic along this small street (the one in the video); people pass both ways to and from Piper and Welly. We watch lasses walking into that park all alone all hours of the night.

Welly Club is right in the centre of this expanding 'ghetto' area.

Newland Avenue is beginning to suffer. The 'badness' is creeping up the streets on the East side of Newland Avenue, from Beverley Road.

The other side of Cottingham Road, north along Beverley Road, now to become Beverley High Road, around where Libby lived, around Beresford Avenue and Haworth are still largely untroubled by this spreading 'ghettoisation'. You are not 100% SAFE anywhere in this City, but you travel from 2nd world Russian/Brazilian style street safety where Welly is, to quite an affluent 1st world area once you get to the Haworth part of Beverley Road. Literally, a mile along Beverley Road is a world away!

A lot of this is subjective perception and anecdotal, but it is shared by a lot of people. Humberside Police are under a LOT of scrutiny at the moment. I think because of the upsetting nature, and out of respect for Libby and her family, there's been no real public criticism yet. But people are already afraid and angry BEFORE this Libby case by what they see as the crumbling of the very infrastructure around them and being left to deal with it alone. Me and my neighbours have joined together to share a CCTV DVR box across our two houses. We are at the moment gathering wood to put up more gates round the back and put extra height on our fences.

People here genuinely don't care whether Libby was from Hull, whether she liked Hull or took it to heart or not. There is genuine shock and concern, not just for Libby, but for everyone who lives here because we fundamental believe the Police cannot protect us.

Wednesdays at Welly is under 18s night. A lot of us know lots of people who go to Welly, I have friends who have teenage kids who go to Welly. Real old style communities may be a thing of the past, but everyone is worried about the future of this locale and the city and everyone is feeling it.

tldr: Hull has had this kind of thing coming for a couple of years...
 
I think it’s definitely a bit strange that the police hadn’t contacted him for CCTV.

Understand people saying they might have better footage, but surely every bit of footage of Libby that night is at least worth examining?!
 
Yes an excellent suggestion. I have a ring doorbell and it captures a wide enough area just for movement.
There must be some surely? On Google maps I can't see any, but not sure when the images are from. It might be the kind of thing people don't think about checking.
 
It's 130 metres from that junction to the bench though, and the bench is set back a bit. Could they have got clear enough footage from that distance? Clear enough to confirm it was Libby?

I personally reckon the 11:40 timing of her being on the bench came from a passing bus or other vehicle with dashcam.
Yes I agree, it looks a bit of a stretch!
 
Hi all, don't post in here normally just read so hope you don't mind me joining in.
Could someone just clarify that I am right in thinking that as you are looking at the CCTV of the car with the visible male that LS would have been sat at the end of the road to the right of the vehicle? (The road in the direction which the car drove off) I know the bench was around the corner.

Thanks.
 
Can anyone say for definite what number Libby lived at ? There’s photos with and without hedge
 
Hi all, don't post in here normally just read so hope you don't mind me joining in.
Could someone just clarify that I am right in thinking that as you are looking at the CCTV of the car with the visible male that LS would have been sat at the end of the road to the right of the vehicle? (The road in the direction which the car drove off) I know the bench was around the corner.

Thanks.
It would have been to the left of the car. It was really close. Someone on here posted a good picture not to far back with the bench in relation to the car
 
Well if it was my daughter and I went to the bench she was last seen at and saw a CCTV camera at a shop down the road next to her last sighting and asked the police if they had seen her on there, and they said. . . Well we haven't checked yet, but don't worry, someone from itv might. I'd be concerned. And if I went to the Welly and and said . . . There's a CCTV camera there have you checked that, and they said . . . Well no, but someone from the papers might. I'd be concerned.

I'm not having a go at the police, I just would have thought they would check everything and don't see why this guy would lie about it
Well if it was my daughter and I went to the bench she was last seen at and saw a CCTV camera at a shop down the road next to her last sighting and asked the police if they had seen her on there, and they said. . . Well we haven't checked yet, but don't worry, someone from itv might. I'd be concerned. And if I went to the Welly and and said . . . There's a CCTV camera there have you checked that, and they said . . . Well no, but someone from the papers might. I'd be concerned.

I'm not having a go at the police, I just would have thought they would check everything and don't see why this guy would lie about it

He was away the weekend after Libby went missing so even of they went knocking for cctv he wasn't there.

I do agree that of was my daughter of want every bit of cctv footage available however I have faith in the police that they know what they are doing.

What did you learn from that clip? She was drunk, she didn't get in the club, she got in a taxi, a silver Astra that may or not be PR drove past at normal speed not appearing to be stalking anyone so probably just an innocent person driving by.

We've gone from a chance abduction to her now being stalked and followed with nothing to prove that (That we know of).

Think we can agree to disagree.

I trust the police to be way more in the know than any of us and so they should be.

And the guy who gave the cctv to the daily mail? Found him tacky, there's a girl missing probably no longer alive! The whole world did not need to see her stumbling her way to a club...and the photo of him outside his premises with the sign showing (nice bit of free advertising) I find it disrespectful.
 
Hi all, don't post in here normally just read so hope you don't mind me joining in.
Could someone just clarify that I am right in thinking that as you are looking at the CCTV of the car with the visible male that LS would have been sat at the end of the road to the right of the vehicle? (The road in the direction which the car drove off) I know the bench was around the corner.

Thanks.

From where the car is in the video it's facing forward. So the bench is behind the tail end of the car and around the corner on the side where the camera is operating from.

Behind the car are bollards that block the street from through traffic, so the car could only go forwards, away from the bench where Libby was.
 
I have watched the video and to me it looks like she is trying not to appear too drunk. She is wearing flats. Could they have refused her entry because she didn't have any ID on her?
I believe it has been confirmed that she was refused entry because she was drunk not because she lacked ID. It's pretty clear from the video that she is very unsteady. It also appears in one of the clips that the bouncers are watching people arrive, a spotter looking for people that are too drunk.
 
He was away the weekend after Libby went missing so even of they went knocking for cctv he wasn't there.

I do agree that of was my daughter of want every bit of cctv footage available however I have faith in the police that they know what they are doing.

What did you learn from that clip? She was drunk, she didn't get in the club, she got in a taxi, a silver Astra that may or not be PR drove past at normal speed not appearing to be stalking anyone so probably just an innocent person driving by.

We've gone from a chance abduction to her now being stalked and followed with nothing to prove that (That we know of).

Think we can agree to disagree.

I trust the police to be way more in the know than any of us and so they should be.

And the guy who gave the cctv to the daily mail? Found him tacky, there's a girl missing probably no longer alive! The whole world did not need to see her stumbling her way to a club...and the photo of him outside his premises with the sign showing (nice bit of free advertising) I find it disrespectful.

You make some good points, but do you not think video footage might be more effective in jogging peoples memories than a photo or description?
 
Thanks so much for helping us understand the process.

A couple followup questions if you have a chance to see this.

If the passenger decides they want to be dropped off not exactly at the address where they indicated in the booking then is that GPS location stored in the application anywhere? Like is the final GPS location of where they exactly were dropped off stored in the booking application?

I suppose that could depend too on what service she is using as maybe they are different with different companies.
Just wondering if that information about exactly where she was dropped off is available to LE.

Have one other question.

If someone other than LS made the actual reservation then is it typical that you would ask the actual passenger for their name, address, and any other information about that passenger? Or is that something that nobody really does or maybe it just depends on how rushed the person needs to get where they are going. Curious as to what is standard to do in that situation as far as getting the identification of the passenger or passengers when they did not make the reservation.

Thanks in advance for your help.
Hi. There are a few companies that supply the booking and dispatch software that taxi companies use. When I started in the business it was still pen and paper in the office and jobs dispatched over the radio. Through the years the technology has improved massively.
The taxi game in large towns and cities is not like Streetcars on Coronation Street it’s big numbers of cars and passengers. The company I work for is in a town with a population of 150k people, we have just over 300 cars and last year did 1.7 million bookings. Pen and paper does not work anymore.
The software is pretty similar with all companies and these days is app based in the car and connected via data SIM cards to the office via the cloud. Office based servers would be massive to handle all the data hence the cloud.
The reason why there is so much data is because every car is tracked all the time and it’s position logged every 20 seconds regardless of whether the car is on a job or not. So yes the location is logged if the passenger changes there mind and when the driver tells the computer that the journey is complete it logs that position.
Not only does it track the car all the time but every time the driver touches the computer in the car, for instance to check his position in a certain location or to tell the office he is on a break it records every single command on the office data log. Every time every car.
When the police come in to investigate a crime the print out for one car on one shift can run into hundreds of pages of data.

Addressing the other question. Let’s say the person seen in the video with LS was calling the taxi when they were using the phone. Seems logical.
When the call was answered the call handler will already have some information through the phone number if the person has called before as the system remembers all numbers and then stores names and frequently used addresses and pick up points so to make the call handlers job quicker as they handle up to a hundred calls an hour. In this case as LS did not call from her phone the name of the usual user would come up. The person calling could have left this as their name or asked for LS name to be added. Either way it does not matter as every phone call received is digitally recorded and can be listened back to in seconds. This is another reason for the cloud as can you imagine the storage needed to record over a million calls a year.
Hope this helps.
 
Hi all, don't post in here normally just read so hope you don't mind me joining in.
Could someone just clarify that I am right in thinking that as you are looking at the CCTV of the car with the visible male that LS would have been sat at the end of the road to the right of the vehicle? (The road in the direction which the car drove off) I know the bench was around the corner.

Thanks.

In the first view, we are looking at the bench from the direction of the CCTV at the road junction, and the direction of Welly - viewing from the South.

The car was parked in Haworth Street, facing West. There are a set of blue gates you can see at the top of the street. The car was parked outside those gates, the CCTV from inside the yard looking south through the gates at the car on Haworth Street.
 

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It says no 15 on thread one and there’s no hedge around door police were testing , im still not sure which is hers
On street view it's the one that has a red kitchen bin in front of the house, at the side of the wheelie bin
 
Hi, yes that car with the smoking man was also a Vauxhall Astra, exactly the same wheels as the arrested persons vehicle. Probably the very same car I'd say.

Oh, it's a 5 door astra, the 3 door Astra of this era has a different shape altogether from the area of the drivers seat backwards and a much larger drivers door too because it's a coupe compared to the 5 door.

OK - that is important as then it is the same model as the defendants car

Seems a stretch that it isn't PR and Libby
 
In the first view, we are looking at the bench from the direction of the CCTV at the road junction, and the direction of Welly - viewing from the South.

The car was parked in Haworth Street, facing West. There are a set of blue gates you can see at the top of the street. The car was parked outside those gates, the CCTV from inside the yard looking south through the gates at the car on Haworth Street.

is there definitely cctv that would show the bench area ? sorry if this has been discussed before i was under the impression she was seen by a bus cctv.
 
You make some good points, but do you not think video footage might be more effective in jogging peoples memories than a photo or description?

I think there must be better footage available for jogging people's memories and it was up to the police to release it not some guy selling it to the daily mail.
 
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