UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #23

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I’ve been on both sides of the fence at one time or another.

The Defence opening about being a disgusting individual doesn’t make someone a murderer is right & something I think fair-minded people are aware of.

In fact, I was so aware of this at the beginning that I tried to divorce his previous offences from every piece of evidence presented & come up with an alternative explanation.

Euphemistically referring to his various Paraphilic behaviours as a (singular) “problem” and appearing to equate it to liking sex coupled with the incessant lying have lead me believe that his actions, or inactions, must be viewed through the prism of predatory sex offender.

Even if submissions about his previous offences hadn’t been allowed, I cannot see that his intentions in picking up Libby were in any way honourable. Why wait until the Romanians left Haworth Street until you get Libby into your car, particularly if she’s being subjected to jeering?

The evidence of penetrative sex is unequivocal proof of rape in my opinion as she could not give informed consent.

PR has relied on absence of evidence to back up his story that he never entered the park. We have to remember that absence of evidence isn’t the same as evidence of absence.

Even if Sam Alford didn’t positively ID the man he saw as PR, what are the chances that a man wearing fitted trousers being in the park at the same time screams were heard? Remember that that park isn’t a cut-through from anywhere else, it’s boundaried on three sides by fences & river.

If PR’s return visit was prompted by a sudden attack of conscience about Libby’s welfare, why lie about getting out of his car? How likely is it that a freezing, drunk & upset young woman would remain in the immediate vicinity of where she was supposedly left? If you didn’t want to report to the police for fear of your wife finding out, wouldn’t you check out the areas inaccessible by car like the pedestrian-only bit of Oak Road or the park if you were motivated by concern? He spends 4 minutes there, probably equivalent to the time spent looking for the condom discarded on Alexandra Road!

We’ve become used to forensics providing a “smoking gun” to prove crime e.g. the chances of DNA belonging to someone else other than a defendant is a billion to one. The risk of it belonging to someone else is quantified as being so small that we accept it as 100% proof.

Although we can’t quantify behaviour in quite the same way, we can use logic to think “is this scenario more likely than that scenario?” but we have to use the behaviour demonstrated by the defendant previously to arrive at that likelihood. Again, even if I exclude knowledge about the nature of previous offences, I’m left with PR having bad intentions. I’m left with repeated lying with self-preservation at its heart. We are meant to believe he has accepted his deviancy and therefore he no longer has the same motivation to lie.

In my opinion, he has been forced to acknowledge that a “problem” exists because of bad character evidence. It’s glossed over, like it’s a slight inconvenience and detached from him, minimised with little remorse or regard for the victims. I don’t see true acceptance, I see expediency with self-interest the dominant driver.

Inferring motivations and thoughts from outward behaviour seems much more subjective than a forensic test & why I’ve tried to resist but behaviour patterns do exist & allow us to weigh up likely & less likely. Despite an unascertained cause of death, I’d have to find him guilty.

Edited to apologise for length-should have probably opened a word document to document the wrangling of my mind rather than inflict it here!
 
I am surprised that the jury weren't taken to the area of ORPF. I have known seemingly less important site visits in other serious trials.
It is interesting to me, that most local folk with a knowledge of the park, if not thinking its impossible do indeed have some trouble or doubts over the time scales.
I don't doubt the jury will find him guilty on both counts and as I have said many times I DO believe he is overall responsible for her death, I just haven't seen anything that makes me sure that those timescales can work due to the distance and terrain involved, it still seems too quick. Moo
 
10:06
Weather worries

The trial is set for day 13 but there are some concerns over the weather.

The trial has previously been halted by heavy snow and Sheffield has been hit by the winter weather once more.

Last time some jurors were unable to get to the court and we will let you know what happens.

Libby Squire murder trial live updates: Defence give closing speech
 
I am surprised that the jury weren't taken to the area of ORPF. I have known seemingly less important site visits in other serious trials.
It is interesting to me, that most local folk with a knowledge of the park, if not thinking its impossible do indeed have some trouble or doubts over the time scales.
I don't doubt the jury will find him guilty on both counts and as I have said many times I DO believe he is overall responsible for her death, I just haven't seen anything that makes me sure that those timescales can work due to the distance and terrain involved, it still seems too quick. Moo

The Prosecution say it’s possible, we may have doubts but as it stands, the defence have supplied nothing to substantially discredit that assertion
 
I am surprised that the jury weren't taken to the area of ORPF. I have known seemingly less important site visits in other serious trials.
It is interesting to me, that most local folk with a knowledge of the park, if not thinking its impossible do indeed have some trouble or doubts over the time scales.
I don't doubt the jury will find him guilty on both counts and as I have said many times I DO believe he is overall responsible for her death, I just haven't seen anything that makes me sure that those timescales can work due to the distance and terrain involved, it still seems too quick. Moo

I'll stick my neck out here - local with no issues around the timeframe.
 
I am surprised that the jury weren't taken to the area of ORPF. I have known seemingly less important site visits in other serious trials.
It is interesting to me, that most local folk with a knowledge of the park, if not thinking its impossible do indeed have some trouble or doubts over the time scales.
I don't doubt the jury will find him guilty on both counts and as I have said many times I DO believe he is overall responsible for her death, I just haven't seen anything that makes me sure that those timescales can work due to the distance and terrain involved, it still seems too quick. Moo
Much earlier in the thread somebody said her friend used that park with her kids. She had no issues at all with the time frame.

All the other scenarios appear to raise far more issues.
 
Remember that that park isn’t a cut-through from anywhere else, it’s boundaried on three sides by fences & river.

RSBM
This isn't quite accurate, as shown in strontium's video early in the threads, the tow path beside the river is open and accessible from Sutton Road Bridge, it does lead all the way down to ORPF.
 
Much earlier in the thread somebody said her friend used that park with her kids. She had no issues at all with the time frame.

All the other scenarios appear to raise far more issues.

This is why I said "most" she also said Iirc that she could walk it in a minute or less which is certainly no way close to accurate even according to the prosecution team who state 4.5 minutes.
 
I'll stick my neck out here - local with no issues around the timeframe.

I'm local (work on Beverley Road, regularly walk my dog and toddler on ORPF) and have no issue either. I have more issue after seeing CCTV of Libby and how much difficulty she was having walking, with the idea that she was able to get herself in to the river.
 
RSBM
This isn't quite accurate, as shown in strontium's video early in the threads, the tow path beside the river is open and accessible from Sutton Road Bridge, it does lead all the way down to ORPF.

That's true, and in fact it's open right along the track up to Beverley High Road, close to the Cross Keys pub (marked in red). It's just a tree line, and you can walk through it and straight onto the playing fields. I posted a picture of the track two years back.
 

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RSBM
This isn't quite accurate, as shown in strontium's video early in the threads, the tow path beside the river is open and accessible from Sutton Road Bridge, it does lead all the way down to ORPF.

Thanks for the factual correction; I’d still find it unlikely that someone would choose that route on a freezing night and just happen to be in the vicinity of repeated screams & not mention it to anybody.
 
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