UK - Logan Mwangi, 5, found dead in Wales River, Bridgend, 31 July 2021 *arrests, inc. minor* #4

[Jay_Tec]

Speaking of the mother, she's overly emotional and self serving. Even on the stand she easily is ticked off and takes offense with comments like "you think I'm stupid". Very unwise behavior while testifying if you want to show that you're a mature rational adult. Always looking out for #1 and highly reactive. Not seeing a lot of rational behavior from her. This can't look good to a jury.

The worst thing is that all her immaturity and irrational emotive temper flaring is so wide of the point - defending herself and sometimes JC - when she should be raging for justice for her dead boy and fighting to ensure she gets free so she can see her baby again one day. Obviously she can't do any of that as she's guilty as heck.

 

[Jay_Tec]

Im really struggling with AW not admitting she was awake. I mean, the cat is firmly out the bag, what with the lights going on and off, and the curtains twitching and noone being in the house besides her. I know we don't know exactly what went on, but I hope we are all in agreement here, that she was awake. I dont understand how she can keep up this denial when there is hard evidence which proves she was awake, what sort of person could do that, is what I'm wondering, as it makes zero sense to me.

My personal opinion, I think her denial is at least 50% denial to herself. It's not conscious.

She's not able to process or deal with what she's done - she's bought into the lie for her own ego defences to cope. She's not going to be able to sustain it, it's not possible to stay in denial. Especially not in court when evidence is presented and QCs will call her out. The truth will out.

However long this lot have been held in remand, she will have been telling that fake story over and over and over again to her mother, her friends, the women in prison. She first wanted to be the mother of the 'abducted' Bridgend Baby, with a camera crew, then she wanted sympathy for being controlled by JC, but it's not really panning out like that. She wants to play 'poor me, my son is dead'. Everyone can see plain as day how badly she's contributed to his death and the horror of the cover up story.

 

[Jay_Tec]

Quick question - It has been mentioned on here a few times that the youth was attacked by his mother and that’s why he was taken into care. Has anyone got the source for this? Reason I’m asking is that people have quoted this has happened but can’t find where it was originally referenced anywhere?

Good question. It's being stated as 'an accepted truth' and people have been saying right since the accounts of the Youth's behaviour when he was in foster care were reported ... but... where did this 'fact' originate ?

 

[Mammaalli]

My son had blood tests once and came back with something along the lines of "not enough blood" after half a day waiting for results. It had congealed before making it go the lab apparently.

Maybe this is what happened with JC and the police felt by that point they had enough evidence? Speculating entirely.

Or maybe they couldn't get a good enough sample cus of poor veins, possible cause 'Injecting drugs !!

 

[tedtink]

Quick question - It has been mentioned on here a few times that the youth was attacked by his mother and that’s why he was taken into care. Has anyone got the source for this? Reason I’m asking is that people have quoted this has happened but can’t find where it was originally referenced anywhere?

It's a fact, presented as evidence and wouldn't have been quoted otherwise.
Here it is, for those who missed it the first time round.

John Hipkin QC begins cross-examination
Barrister John Hipkin QC, for the youth defendant, asks the social worker whether anyone who spent time with the teenager would see that he would "say, shout, even sometimes sing things which were "designed to provoke, to get a rise out of people" - the witness agrees that is the case.

The barrister asks whether the teenager could be "aggravating" or annoying in a physical sense such as poking or kicking - again the witness says yes, adding that sometimes when he was travelling in the back seat of her car, for example, he would pull the seat belt.

The court hears the teenager was originally taken into care after allegedly suffering a "serious assault" at the hands of his mother.


Youth accused of murdering boy, 5, had 'desire for violence' , jury told

 

[Doughy]

Or maybe they couldn't get a good enough sample cus of poor veins, possible cause 'Injecting drugs !!

More likely dehydration if it was an on the spot test.

 

[Overthinker77]

Just been reading the doctors findings at the beginning of the trial..she said Logan’s injuries could of happened up to 36 hours earlier from when he died & he would of been in extreme pain..this explains how only bran was found in his stomach from probably 29th July..late morning/early afternoon it’s all kicked off as her beloved stereo had crap on it,this caused big arguments & Aw probably did shake Logan to get the truth out of him because JC was banging on about it was Logan & she’s flipped but then JC & the youth saw this as a green light to hurt Logan..they’ve beat him in a frenzy & AW probably found Logan & then she panicked..ran out,the youth followed got AW back in the house..they’ve put him in bed give him Calpol,shut his curtains.they’ve probably kept washing his bedding as his head was bleeding soo much..showered him the next day to get rid of blood,tried feeding him but they must of all known he was dying & it was just a matter of waiting..gives them even more time to get their stories straight..again just my opinion.

 

[Seattle1]

Williamson said she took her medication at around 10pm. She said: “It makes me quite sleepy.”

She said she wouldn’t take the medication unless there was another adult in the house so they could look after Logan.

The defendant said she fell asleep around 10.30pm. She said: “I fell asleep so quickly, I was exhausted from the week we had.”

Logan Mwangi murder trial latest as mum gives evidence


So she only takes this medication IF there is another adult to 'look after Logan'? The same adult who has threatened to kill him, has punched him so hard that he flew across the hallway, and encourages the 14 yr old to assault him?

She is not helping herself with some of this questionable testimony.

I think an honest answer would be that she'd take the medication only if somebody was available to watch 'the children.' Emphasizing Logan tells me she's once again a liar, liar, pants on fire.

 

[Mammaalli]

You will be surprised I was prescribed zopiclone as a 20year single mum to too children looking back bad choice on the doctor

So was i but they did'nt knock me out.

 

[Moll]

My thought is that alcohol and drug use would make a more compelling case that whilst under the influence they became dis-inhibited (sp?) and outrageously violent with no off switch as opposed to just regular thugs and bullies. Also, substances would lower empathy and lower the ability to reason 'cause and effect' and comprehend a situation.

So, it would go someway to explain instead of thinking 'my god what have we done' or 'how do we effectively cover this up', it seems the violent crew just spent a whole nother day manhandling, pushing, shoving, and frequently dropping Logan around the house - from the naughty corner to the bath to the toilet to the bedroom perceiving him as uncooperative when in fact he was near dead. It is shown in court that the youth and JC are quick witted and not mentally lacking to the degree I had previously imagined. So unless they were literally behaving like predatory animals who toy with their catch like a cat bats around a long dead mouse, what on earth can have happened to them all that they spent a whole day so departed from reality ??

I see what you mean, but if it were substance abuse, I think the police would have found it. Their backgrounds put their behaviour in context, even if they don't exactly explain it. Look at JC's record, and the comments made about the youth by the family he lived with.

 

[Seattle1]

I believe she should have, and could have, done much more.

But she was, if any of her testimony is true, also a victim. Not physically, but mentally and emotionally. We can only go by what is reported, and it's a very difficult case to fathom any sort of truth. I am not being sympathetic towards her, just wanted to highlight the difficulties around DV situations.

IMO, AW is no shrinking violet.

 

[Jay_Tec]

It's a fact, presented as evidence and wouldn't have been quoted otherwise.
Here it is, for those who missed it the first time round.

John Hipkin QC begins cross-examination
Barrister John Hipkin QC, for the youth defendant, asks the social worker whether anyone who spent time with the teenager would see that he would "say, shout, even sometimes sing things which were "designed to provoke, to get a rise out of people" - the witness agrees that is the case.

The barrister asks whether the teenager could be "aggravating" or annoying in a physical sense such as poking or kicking - again the witness says yes, adding that sometimes when he was travelling in the back seat of her car, for example, he would pull the seat belt.

The court hears the teenager was originally taken into care after allegedly suffering a "serious assault" at the hands of his mother.


Youth accused of murdering boy, 5, had 'desire for violence' , jury told

Thank you for finding that.

 

[neteditor]

Just been reading the doctors findings at the beginning of the trial..she said Logan’s injuries could of happened up to 36 hours earlier from when he died & he would of been in extreme pain..this explains how only bran was found in his stomach from probably 29th July..late morning/early afternoon it’s all kicked off as her beloved stereo had crap on it,this caused big arguments & Aw probably did shake Logan to get the truth out of him because JC was banging on about it was Logan & she’s flipped but then JC & the youth saw this as a green light to hurt Logan..they’ve beat him in a frenzy & AW probably found Logan & then she panicked..ran out,the youth followed got AW back in the house..they’ve put him in bed give him Calpol,shut his curtains.they’ve probably kept washing his bedding as his head was bleeding soo much..showered him the next day to get rid of blood,tried feeding him but they must of all known he was dying & it was just a matter of waiting..gives them even more time to get their stories straight..again just my opinion.

I've been wondering if the key trigger was AW attempting to leave (whether it was a genuine attempt or not). JC saw his power and control over her potentially being weakened. This triggered a loss of control in him. MOO.

 

[Overthinker77]

I've been wondering if the key trigger was AW attempting to leave (whether it was a genuine attempt or not). JC saw his power and control over her potentially being weakened. This triggered a loss of control in him. MOO.

good point..I’ve been wondering when was it AW went the shop & left Logan..i can’t find it anywhere..I just keep thinking she went out to get his favorite pop to try & liven him up..sorry for my wording..I don’t know how to put it..same with Arthur they tried giving him Coca Cola to again try & bring him round?Also AW said she’s been following child murder cases as there seems to be a lot in the news lately..ironic I know but it does make you think.

 

[Jay_Tec]

Just been reading the doctors findings at the beginning of the trial..she said Logan’s injuries could of happened up to 36 hours earlier from when he died & he would of been in extreme pain..this explains how only bran was found in his stomach from probably 29th July..late morning/early afternoon it’s all kicked off as her beloved stereo had crap on it,this caused big arguments & Aw probably did shake Logan to get the truth out of him because JC was banging on about it was Logan & she’s flipped but then JC & the youth saw this as a green light to hurt Logan..they’ve beat him in a frenzy & AW probably found Logan & then she panicked..ran out,the youth followed got AW back in the house..they’ve put him in bed give him Calpol,shut his curtains.they’ve probably kept washing his bedding as his head was bleeding soo much..showered him the next day to get rid of blood,tried feeding him but they must of all known he was dying & it was just a matter of waiting..gives them even more time to get their stories straight..again just my opinion.

That's my sense of it too. And they invented a whole list of accidents and falls around the house that Logan had that could explain his injuries -

Throwing himself off the top of furniture
Playing 'the floor is lava'
Climbing into the fridge from a wheelchair and falling off it
Flinging himself into / over the baby gate
Falling over in the shower / bath because he 'hates water'
Throwing himself on the floor in the 'naughty corner'
Flinging himself off his bed to land on his knees

- all seemingly designed to explain stomach injuries, head injuries, and knee / lower leg bruising

All utterly unconvincing. He was no doubt laid in bed all of that last day, groaning, crying, bleeding and they all had time to reflect and concoct stories

 

[Overthinker77]

So was i but they did'nt knock me out.

to be fair years ago I was prescribed Zopiclone & they knocked me out within half an hour & highly addictive.

 

[neteditor]

good point..I’ve been wondering when was it AW went the shop & left Logan..i can’t find it anywhere..I just keep thinking she went out to get his favorite pop to try & liven him up..sorry for my wording..I don’t know how to put it..same with Arthur they tried giving him Coca Cola to again try & bring him round?Also AW said she’s been following child murder cases as there seems to be a lot in the news lately..ironic I know but it does make you think.

To be absolutely fair, if I ended up in court they'd have a flipping field day with my internet history. I'm not reading too much into that. If it was more specific, like she'd been googling "what happens when a 5 year old is punched in the stomach" - banged to rights! But her viewing is way, way more tame than mine!

As a mother, when my child is sick or ill and not eating, the first thing I do is get their very favourite thing. If they still won't have that, I know it's serious. I hadn't thought of that connection of AW going to the shop before, thank you. More things to ponder.

 

[Overthinker77]

That's my sense of it too. And they invented a whole list of accidents and falls around the house that Logan had that could explain his injuries -

Throwing himself off the top of furniture
Playing 'the floor is lava'
Climbing into the fridge from a wheelchair and falling off it
Flinging himself into / over the baby gate
Falling over in the shower / bath because he 'hates water'
Throwing himself on the floor in the 'naughty corner'
Flinging himself off his bed to land on his knees

- all seemingly designed to explain stomach injuries, head injuries, and knee / lower leg bruising

All utterly unconvincing. He was no doubt laid in bed all of that last day, groaning, crying, bleeding and they all had time to reflect and concoct stories

Totally agree 100%..also the prosecution lady when I read JCs court defense before she’s thinking on the same lines & it makes sense..I can imagine AW laughing going back in the house after she’s just deceived social services when they turned up unannounced..she could of got Logan help then but no..the van man who saw her distressed in the front..she could of got Logan help then but no..she had quite a few opportunities to save her gorgeous boy but no she probably loved the drama too much instead of Logan.

 

[Jay_Tec]

I've been wondering if the key trigger was AW attempting to leave (whether it was a genuine attempt or not). JC saw his power and control over her potentially being weakened. This triggered a loss of control in him. MOO.

I would imagine JC and the Youth would only prevent her from leaving *after* an incident where Logan was severely harmed, not before. To my mind, that was the vital pivotal moment where when the Youth stopped her and she returned, they all knew they were all 'in it together' covering up horror from there on in.

I'd be interested to know what this 'leaving' comprised and how determined it was, if at all. Was she carrying her baby? Her handbag?

She could have got away, she could have screamed out to the neighbours, the man in the van, she could have fought the Youth off tooth and nail. She's a very loud mouthy person by all accounts. But instead, she made a choice, a decision right there - a decision to stick with her family at all costs, at Logan's cost. Logan might still have been alive but he was confirmed dead right at that moment.

From seeing it this way, I believe that is the 'X' moment that marks the collaboration and means all three jointly murdered Logan. JMOO

Edit: if she'd tried to leave before the severe assault, they probably would have laughed at her and said 'see you when you get hungry' or some such

 

[Jay_Tec]

I've been wondering if the key trigger was AW attempting to leave (whether it was a genuine attempt or not). JC saw his power and control over her potentially being weakened. This triggered a loss of control in him. MOO.

I wonder if in the days leading up, she had been talking of leaving / splitting up ? That could have indeed been the trigger of JC losing his tightly wound 'control' ?