GUILTY UK - Louise Smith, 16, Havant, Hampshire, 8 May 2020 *Arrest*

[Harchmare]

Morning all!

They've started. I can post updates for most of the day but I have to leave by 3.45, if someone can take over then, that'd be great.

 

[Harchmare]

10:37JAMIE PHILLIPS
Proceedings are underway
Shane Mays has returned to the witness box and proceedings have now started.

James Newton-Price QC, prosecuting, will ask Mays about what route he and Louise took on the day she went missing and what was said between them.

Louise Smith murder trial updates as accused continues to give evidence

 

[polerina]

Wasn't Louise on meds? They might not have mixed well with alcohol. MOO

Yes, she was reportedly taking anti-depressants, although you 'can' drink on many of them, there is an interaction and it would likely have caused her to feel more drowsy, drunk and possibly sick / headachey. I also think she was smoking weed while drinking, and they interact too, making you more drunk and possibly sick.

14:23KEY EVENT
Shane Mays punched Louise Smith repeatedly, court hears

Shane Mays says a fight broke out after the argument, during which he was hit with a stick and responded by punching Louise Smith to the floor. He then leaned over the 16-year-old and continued to punch her, the court hears.

She picked up a big stick and hit me on the side with it [Mays points to the left of his ribs]. It hurt. I grabbed it off her her and threw it on the floor and then I punched her.

I punched her face. I was angry for what she did the night before and just then. The first punch she was standing, the second time she went down.

When she was on the ground the punching continued. I was bending over. I did not know how many times [he punched her]. I lost control of myself.

Louise Smith murder trial updates as Shane Mays gives evidence

I think he slipped up by saying "I was angry for what she did the night before" - what did she do that made him so angry he beat her to death?

I can only offer wild speculation, but I think it was S who was looking at *advertiser censored* on her phone that night, I think he made a move on her while she was drunk / drowsy and I think she threatened to tell CJ what was happening.

The following day, he must have lured her to the Thicket, was it to discuss and 'sort out' whatever had happened the night before? Was he trying to persuade her not to tell CJ or anyone else what had happened? Did she say that she was going to tell and in a panic and rage he beat her? I don't believe she hit him with a stick out of nowhere, if she did indeed hit him with a stick, it was likely an attempt to defend herself :-(

So it sounds to me like CJ was possibly a controlling, 'mother' type figure for him. She provided him with a place to live and food, she gave him an allowance, she let him use her phone. It sounds like he is very beholden to her.

I know many people have posted about how unusual this seems for a man of his age. I just wanted to report that I actually know a few men like this, one being my brother. I don't think it is exceptionally unusual for some disenfranchised young men, with low intelligence and employability, low skills, financially unstable / vulnerable, possible substance issues, possible mental health issues, certain intellectual disabilities to find themselves living like S did. My brother doesn't have a phone, access to internet, his own bank account / card etc. He is unemployed and living with a partner who he is completely dependant upon.

Accessing benefits these days often requires you to be able to access and use the internet, and prior to the pandemic to regularly attend job centre meetings, or attend an assesment to determine if you are unable to work due to illness / disability (and then you have to provide a lot of evidence). If you fail to attend a meeting or do something required you get 'sanctioned' and lose your benefits. I think for someone like S this whole process would be too difficult and demanding. I think that's why he doesn't get his own benefits and just has an allowance from CJ.

 

[polerina]

Also - thank you so so much for the updates, it is much appreciated! (I intended to catch up with this yesterday but had an emergency at home and had to take my dog to the vets! poor little girl she isn't well at all)

 

[Harchmare]

Yes, she was reportedly taking anti-depressants, although you 'can' drink on many of them, there is an interaction and it would likely have caused her to feel more drowsy, drunk and possibly sick / headachey. I also think she was smoking weed while drinking, and they interact too, making you more drunk and possibly sick.

Add to that the fact that she was petite and thin. Maybe she hadn't drunk much by his standards, but she would have felt drunk more quickly than him. MOO

 

[Harchmare]

Also - thank you so so much for the updates, it is much appreciated! (I intended to catch up with this yesterday but had an emergency at home and had to take my dog to the vets! poor little girl she isn't well at all)

Aw poor girl! Give her a get well soon cuddle!

 

[Harchmare]

10:52JAMIE PHILLIPS
The route the pair took
The court hears about the route the pair took from Ringwood House in Somborne Drive to Havant Thicket via Leigh Park Gardens on May 8, a walk that took around an hour, Mays says.

Louise was found dead in the northern part of Havant Thicket.

10:54JAMIE PHILLIPS
'She didn't ever open up to me' Mays tells court
Asked if he told his wife CJ, Louise's aunt, where he was going with Louise, Mays says he was dropping Louise off to see a friend before then walking to his mother's house.

Mr Newton-Price QC asks if the pair often went on walks together.

Mays replies that they didn't as Louise "did not ever open up to me".

Louise Smith murder trial updates as accused continues to give evidence

 

[Harchmare]

10:57JAMIE PHILLIPS
Pair walked in opposite direction to where Louise had said she was meeting friend


Louise had told Shane and CJ Mays that she was meeting a friend at West Leigh skate park. However, the pair walked in the opposite direction, Mr Newton-Price QC tells the court.

He asks: "You were taking Louise to a quiet place in the woods, do you agree?"

Mays replies: "No."

Louise Smith murder trial updates as accused continues to give evidence

 

[Harchmare]

13 minutes ago
The route Mays took with Louise Smith
The prosecution is outlining the walking route the pair took before Mays attacked Louise in Havant Thicket.

They walked through a woodland area above High Lawn Way to Middle Park Way, up through Leigh Park gardens past a lake and then taking pathways to the Whichers Gate roundabout.

From there, they followed another pathway up towards Havant Thicket Pond - a rough view of their route, which Mays said took around an hour, can be seen below.

Louise Smith murder trial: Live updates as Shane Mays set to give evidence

 

[Harchmare]

11:00JAMIE PHILLIPS
Louise 'wanted to bond' with Shane Mays, court hears


Shane Mays told the court yesterday that Louise had admitted to him that she had lied about meeting a friend and just wanted to speak privately with him.

He tells the court this morning:

She wanted to bond. She wanted me to be on my own so she can bond with me as she never gets the chance.

I was happy that she can finally open up to me.

Louise Smith murder trial updates as accused continues to give evidence

 

[Harchmare]

11:04JAMIE PHILLIPS
Louise was 'smiling and laughing'
The court hears of how Shane had made plans with Louise to take her shopping in Bournemouth for new clothes.

He agrees with Mr Newton-Price QC that the conversation had a "father-daughter feel".

Mays adds that Louise was smiling and laughed "a couple of times".

Louise Smith murder trial updates as accused continues to give evidence

 

[Harchmare]

5 minutes ago
Mays admits he ‘did not like’ Louise
Questioned by James Newton-Price QC, Mays has told the court he was not fond of Louise.

Mr Newton-Price QC said: 'Did you like Louise?

‘No, I did not,' Mays replied.

The defendant added that walking with Louise on this day made him ‘happy’ because ‘she can finally open up to me.’

Louise Smith murder trial: Live updates as Shane Mays set to give evidence

 

[Harchmare]

11:07JAMIE PHILLIPS
'Are you making this story up?', prosecutor asks Mays
Discussing the route the pair took, Shane Mays tells the court that Louise "took the lead" and "was telling us what way to go".

The defendant did not enquire where they were going, though, the court hears.

Mr Newton-Price then asks Mays if he is "making this story up?".

Mays denies this.

Louise Smith murder trial updates as accused continues to give evidence

 

[Legally Bland]

Morning all!

They've started. I can post updates for most of the day but I have to leave by 3.45, if someone can take over then, that'd be great.

I think I should be free to pick it up then.

I think he slipped up by saying "I was angry for what she did the night before" - what did she do that made him so angry he beat her to death?

Plus this isn't consistent with a sudden loss of control.

 

[Alyce]

13 minutes ago
The route Mays took with Louise Smith
The prosecution is outlining the walking route the pair took before Mays attacked Louise in Havant Thicket.

They walked through a woodland area above High Lawn Way to Middle Park Way, up through Leigh Park gardens past a lake and then taking pathways to the Whichers Gate roundabout.

From there, they followed another pathway up towards Havant Thicket Pond - a rough view of their route, which Mays said took around an hour, can be seen below.

Louise Smith murder trial: Live updates as Shane Mays set to give evidence

His mother's house in Stratfield Gardens, is just next to Warren Park Primary.

 

[Harchmare]

2 minutes ago
Mays knew Havant Thicket ‘very well’ says prosecution
The prosecution is claiming that defendant Shane Mays knew Havant Thicket very well, and was leading Louise though the area.

Evidence heard earlier in the trial claimed Mays regularly visited the area as a child.

But he maintains that Louise led the way from the moment they left Ringwood House.

Louise Smith murder trial: Live updates as Shane Mays set to give evidence

 

[Alyce]

By his own admission he does not like Louise but is going to take her shopping for clothes and decorate her new room when they move to a larger flat.

 

[Alyce]

I'm here most of today so will help out if any C & P needed

 

[Harchmare]

11:20JAMIE PHILLIPS
Pair never previously had deep conversation
Asked why the walk was so long, Mays says he was keeping Louise was happy and that she never complained about her legs hurting on the weather being too hot.

He adds that they had never had a similarly deep conversation before.

Louise Smith murder trial updates as accused continues to give evidence

(his story doesn't make sense. MOO)

 

[Hoggle]

So the defence are making him out to be Hagred's little brother, with low IQ and not able to understand his own strength and the consequences of hitting someone until their facial bones crack.

If he were telling the truth, and it was a flash of anger, knowing how he left her, wouldn't he have gone back to see if she was ok? A flash of anger is just that. It passes and then regret/concern should have kicked in. But it didn't it would seem.