UK UK - Manchester, 'Angel of the Meadow' WhtFem Skeletal, 16-30, buried, Jan'10

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While it is good to revisit cases when new serial killer is caught, attaching random cases to them (or Halliwell) when too many things do not add up bring danger that real perpetrator of the crime might get of the hook.

I have no idea who killed her, and yes, it could have been serial killer, but personally, just from all details what those two writers stated, it was not likely Halliwell.

Nice to see you know so much about it and thank you for your detailed answer. I agree on this one. I find this theory not overly convincing, but to be fair I must add that I didn't do in-depth research into this. I think a lot of discussions about/research on serial killers, although I do understand it's appeal, don't lead to the identity of the murdered person in the end, especially if this are at random killings. I think it's good that they have looked at the MO and the victim profiles to find a possible pattern. The overview is interesting in itself but IMO not detailed enough to link Halliwell with a convincing degree of certainty to this murder.
 
Saw her teeth....can somebody help me out (reflecting back) on the stats...yes I know this lady is supposed to have jumped from a bridge.....

Canada's Missing | Case details

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Saw her teeth....can somebody help me out (reflecting back) on the stats...yes I know this lady is supposed to have jumped from a bridge.....

Canada's Missing | Case details

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Bit of Hope, Are you reminded of the Vancouver UID found at subway?
CANADA - WhtFem, 30-40, Brn hair, blue eyes, 5'6''-5'7'',unpierced ears,Vancouver, BC, Skytrain, 11/4/98

''Fractured/Broken Bones
Left Shoulder, Unknown which shoulder''
Missing since
June 6, 1982
Year of birth
1948
Age at disappearance
33
Gender
Female
Bio group
White
Eye colour
Blue
Hair
Brown
Height
165cm / 5 ft 5 in
Weight
63kg / 139lb
 
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I wish the European authorities were somewhat more progressive on DNA testing... (i know they are not, aside from very basic testing privacy laws are strong and prevent a lot) it would be so easy to at least pinpoint her ethnicity. If we knew whether she was Middle Eastern, South Asian or European, it would be easier to go further...

And with all due respect to Prof. Wilkinson and her team, Id call for another recon as all the Dundee uni recons of UID or archeological cases look very similar (i am an archeologist and closely follow their work).
 
Saw her teeth....can somebody help me out (reflecting back) on the stats...yes I know this lady is supposed to have jumped from a bridge.....

Canada's Missing | Case details

showImage

The Angel of the Meadow is described having;
  • She had fillings and was missing the first upper right pre-molar, which would have been visible when she smiled broadly.
That's why I was thinking of this lady.
 
As year is coming to an end, I have to add few words.

Since beginning of this year, early January, I (Unidentified and Missing People) have been in talks with Manchester police detective of this case by phone and emails. I have explained basics of genetic genealogy and its use to her and gave her contact details for both co-founders of DNA Doe Project org with an idea to take on Angel of the Meadow case on and to finally find her identity with new technology. I was pleased to see she was very interested, plus whole department and boss held serious discussions on the topic of genetic genealogy.

At the same time in February, there were official talks on national police level (Highest Police Chiefs, Ethics Board Committee, Certified UK genealogists etc) about use of genetic genealogy in UK and its possible use by UK police force nationwide.

In March Covid happened.

Around May I have been informed by detective that after very lengthy discussions in their department and higher bosses unfortunately they can’t go ahead with genetic genealogy use in Angel of the Meadow case for various reasons. I have understood the difficult decision and know that they have police rules and guidelines to follow. I was still happy that they took the proposal seriously and even took time to learn and discuss it among whole department for quite some time.

Few months later I finally got hold off of some bits and pieces from talks on UK national level where board of this multiple high ranking people came to final conclusion that genetic genealogy will NOT be allowed to be used in UK for time being. I won’t go much into it here as that is different chapter but I will try to challenge this decision as there were multiple very wrong statements made on which decision it was based.

Looking back, I know Manchester cold case unit had to oblige and their decision was also based on this latest UK police guidelines.

However, I have continued talks with the detective since about different options in the case..
 
Since about January, I have been also in talks with Manchester City Council to have official plague, mark or gravestone made for Angel of the Meadow. She is lying in unmarked grave in Southern Cemetery and there is absolutely nothing marking or commemorating where she lay, not even the wooden cross, just dirt on the ground anyone can walk on without noticing her.

Talks involved some “funny” moments as well as me and council could not locate her burial or the paperwork. After I have finally found out her exact date of burial (different than it is reported in media) everything fell into place. In one of the multiple talks I have also managed to talk to cemetery man who actually buried her in 2015. Even though he bury thousands of people he very much remembered her and her day.

I have to also say BIG Thank You to CEO of @othram (American forensic lab specializing in genetic genealogy) who kindly came forward and donated to Unidentified and Missing People, towards gravestone of Angel of the Meadow Jane Doe when he observed my conversation elsewhere on the topic. On behalf of all Angel of the Meadow followers and me - Thank You David!

After yearlong slow progress due to council in and out of lockdown and overall situation, I am happy to announce that official work on gravestone of the Angel of the Meadow had finally started on December 14. Work should take around 12 weeks and should be finalized around mid-February 2021 when her gravestone will be also set on her grave.

Bless you all and wishing you day early Happy New Year!
 
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Since about January, I have been also in talks with Manchester City Council to have official plague, mark or gravestone made for Angel of the Meadow. She is lying in unmarked grave in Southern Cemetery and there is absolutely nothing marking or commemorating where she lay, not even the wooden cross, just dirt on the ground anyone can walk on without noticing her.

Talks involved some “funny” moments as well as me and council could not locate her burial or the paperwork. After I have finally found out her exact date of burial (different than it is reported in media) everything fell into place. In one of the multiple talks I have also managed to talk to cemetery man who actually buried her in 2015. Even though he bury thousands of people he very much remembered her and her day.

I have to also say BIG Thank You to CEO of @othram (American forensic lab specializing in genetic genealogy) who kindly came forward and donated to Unidentified and Missing People, towards gravestone of Angel of the Meadow Jane Doe when he observed my conversation elsewhere on the topic. On behalf of all Angel of the Meadow followers and me - Thank You David!

After yearlong slow progress due to council in and out of lockdown and overall situation, I am happy to announce that official work on gravestone of the Angel of the Meadow had finally started on December 14. Work should take around 12 weeks and should be finalized around mid-February 2021 when her gravestone will be also set on her grave.

Bless you all and wishing you day early Happy New Year!
Wonderful work Al Ka, many thanks to you and David from othram, yes- the world is filled with wonderful, caring people!!
 
The general European stance on genetic genealogy is very frustrating and backwards... the UK is not alone in this, virtually all continental European countries have the same attitude towards it. The most they will do is MtDNA and YDNA which is fairly ineffective and not really helpful for UID.
There is also no common public database for missing persons and UID, which also makes sleuthing/hints from the public impossible. Very little info is publically released on cases. Everything is up to LE and they are overwhelmed and many are not interested in identification. It is a shame as time is running out, living family members will die out...or are dead already.

To be fair, European data protection laws are important and also if European DNA is uploaded to an US database such as FtDNA or Gedmatch, there will likely not be many close matches as most participants are from the US. If i was an UID, you could not identify me, my closest matches are 3rd-4th cousin level...and only on my paternal side, which is extremely endogamous.

As year is coming to an end, I have to add few words.

Since beginning of this year, early January, I (Unidentified and Missing People) have been in talks with Manchester police detective of this case by phone and emails. I have explained basics of genetic genealogy and its use to her and gave her contact details for both co-founders of DNA Doe Project org with an idea to take on Angel of the Meadow case on and to finally find her identity with new technology. I was pleased to see she was very interested, plus whole department and boss held serious discussions on the topic of genetic genealogy.

At the same time in February, there were official talks on national police level (Highest Police Chiefs, Ethics Board Committee, Certified UK genealogists etc) about use of genetic genealogy in UK and its possible use by UK police force nationwide.

In March Covid happened.

Around May I have been informed by detective that after very lengthy discussions in their department and higher bosses unfortunately they can’t go ahead with genetic genealogy use in Angel of the Meadow case for various reasons. I have understood the difficult decision and know that they have police rules and guidelines to follow. I was still happy that they took the proposal seriously and even took time to learn and discuss it among whole department for quite some time.

Few months later I finally got hold off of some bits and pieces from talks on UK national level where board of this multiple high ranking people came to final conclusion that genetic genealogy will NOT be allowed to be used in UK for time being. I won’t go much into it here as that is different chapter but I will try to challenge this decision as there were multiple very wrong statements made on which decision it was based.

Looking back, I know Manchester cold case unit had to oblige and their decision was also based on this latest UK police guidelines.

However, I have continued talks with the detective since about different options in the case..
 
Since about January, I have been also in talks with Manchester City Council to have official plague, mark or gravestone made for Angel of the Meadow. She is lying in unmarked grave in Southern Cemetery and there is absolutely nothing marking or commemorating where she lay, not even the wooden cross, just dirt on the ground anyone can walk on without noticing her.

Talks involved some “funny” moments as well as me and council could not locate her burial or the paperwork. After I have finally found out her exact date of burial (different than it is reported in media) everything fell into place. In one of the multiple talks I have also managed to talk to cemetery man who actually buried her in 2015. Even though he bury thousands of people he very much remembered her and her day.

I have to also say BIG Thank You to CEO of @othram (American forensic lab specializing in genetic genealogy) who kindly came forward and donated to Unidentified and Missing People, towards gravestone of Angel of the Meadow Jane Doe when he observed my conversation elsewhere on the topic. On behalf of all Angel of the Meadow followers and me - Thank You David!

After yearlong slow progress due to council in and out of lockdown and overall situation, I am happy to announce that official work on gravestone of the Angel of the Meadow had finally started on December 14. Work should take around 12 weeks and should be finalized around mid-February 2021 when her gravestone will be also set on her grave.

Bless you all and wishing you day early Happy New Year!

@Al Ka This made me emotional....You know how very persistent you have been.........Thank you so much for doing this, being there for her and caring. I think you are wonderful and also David M. Also for you a very Happy New Year. New rounds...new opportunities. Big Hug!
 
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I've come up with some "less spooky" facial reconstructions for this Doe using Artbreeder to make her facial features more "in line" and less displaced to imagine what she might have looked like before death, rather than deriving her face fully from the morgue. As she was some type of Caucasoid (White/Middle Eastern/Indian) I played around with the ethnicity sliders too and added extra details. Only her "raw" image has been uploaded and therefore the artwork is fully derived from her composite image. I will upload them shortly on this thread.
 
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✨ New Gravestone Revealed for Angel of The Meadow Jane Doe, unknown woman found in January 2010 in Manchester, UK and first flowers laid on her grave ✨
===
Manchester, #UK - Thanks to Al Ka, founder of our Unidentified and Missing People site and donation by David from Othram Labs (forensic and genetic genealogy crime lab), new headstone have been made and first flowers laid on until now unmarked grave of still unknown woman found murdered and discarted in city centre of Manchester in 2010.

Case details: On 25 January 2010 at the site of a former disused carpark in Miller Street, Manchester city centre area called Angel Meadows, construction workers stumbled upon skeletal remains of woman wrapped in the carpet.

Parts of the site had been unchanged since the 1960s, including the wooden fence panels which surrounded one of the car park’s buildings. In the gap between the fence and the wall, half a century’s worth of dirt, debris and litter had accumulated. Nobody ever paid much attention to this spot behind the building; less so the dirty old carpet which had been dumped in that narrow alcove.

Studies revealed that Jane Doe was a Caucasian female aged between 16 and 30. She was estimated to be between 5ft 1in and 5ft 7in tall (155cm - 170cm) and was a modern day size 12. She had a number of fillings in her teeth and had a missing first upper right pre-molar, meaning it would have been visible when she smiled broadly.

Post mortem revealed that she had been badly beaten, with fractures to her jaw, neck and collarbone. She had been stripped at the waist, leading police to suspect she had been sexually assaulted. Case is classified as homicide.

Specialists believe the woman was born between 1950 and 1954, and that she was most likely killed between 1975 and 1988, according to forensic tests.

She was discovered with a distinctively patterned green pinafore style dress with large buttons, wearing a blue bra, and a blue 'skinny-rib' jumper. A black high-heeled shoe was found nearby. Tights were also found near the body, along with an empty handbag. The victim was wearing only her upper clothing.

Pinafore style dress has distinctive pattern featuring a man and a woman with the words 'Madam' and 'Monsieur'. Police now know that numerous prints of this type were manufactured and worn between 1973 and 1976.

A white plastic Guinness measuring chart, thought to be used in pubs, was also uncovered along with a long off-cut of an orange carpet. Plastic chart is dating back to the late 1960s.

The victim had been wrapped in carpet before being dumped, and three different colours of carpet were found at the site: orange, blue and dark blue. The blue carpet appeared to have been cut to fit a Ford Cortina, with a hole for the gearstick.

In 2011 a team led by Dr Caroline Wilkinson, from Dundee University's forensic and medical art department, used

state-of the art facial mapping techniques to reconstruct the woman's features.

In 2012 Jane Doe's DNA was obtained and over 400 missing people have been ruled out to be her, including Isabella Skelton (missing 1969), Helen McCourt (missing 1988), Zoe Simpson (missing 1996) and Helen Sage (missing 1997). To this day there have not been any match and she remains to be nameless Jane Doe - Angel of the Meadow.

DNA tests have also shown that there was no match to two convicted killers, Peter Tobin and Ronald Castree.

In March 2015 she was finally laid to rest in unmarked grave in Southern Cemetery of Manchester in a state-paid service. Burial was attended only by two people, her Greater Manchester Police detectives.

In 2021 new gravestone have been made and laid on her grave in her memory.

"This lady might have been put out of somebody's mind temporarily but she will never be forgotten. "There will be a family member out there somewhere who knows who she is and who can unlock that key and identify her and perhaps that will lead to the murderer.

"We are determined to get a just outcome for the victim, and for any family member out there we will never give up hope."

Anyone with information about the case can contact the GMP cold case review unit on 0161 856 5978 or Crimestoppers on 0800 555 111.

===
Police Profile - UK Missing Persons Unit
Wikipedia- Angel of the Meadow - Wikipedia
Discussion - UK - UK - Manchester, 'Angel of the Meadow' WhtFem Skeletal, 16-30, buried, Jan'10
Previous post with extra photos and details - Log into Facebook
 
@Al Ka You are an angel too...great you accomplished this...her marker...What a wonderful person you are...we need more people like you...shining off on all of us. X And of course thanks to David Mittelman from Othram....what a wonderful thing to do. X
 
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Been following this one for a while and I'm fascinated by the Guinness sign.

Bit of an antiques enthusiast so I'll give a brief rundown - it's probably from 1963-c.1968, and I cannot find that design with the glass in front of it anywhere. Never seen the likes of it! I've also tried searching for plastic prints/posters, shelf lights, clocks, perpetual calendars, thermometers... Nothing unfortunately. I can't find any design with the stem glass printed in front of the brand name. It's definitely not by Gilroy, probably a Hobbs design.

Additional note: the glass isn't for women as was suggested earlier in the thread, it's called a Guinness goblet or a square goblet. You used to be able to get Guinness served in either that, or a Guinness tankard (they were sort of a brand pair). I reckon the print is contemporary to the Carlton Ware designs also featured earlier in the thread, as they show off a boxed in goblet/tankard in a range of similar products.
 
@Al Ka You are an angel too...great you accomplished this...her marker...What a wonderful person you are...we need more people like you...shining off on all of us. X And of course thanks to David Mittelman from Othram....what a wonderful thing to do. X
Thank you for your kind words Bit of hope x

Attaching some images of her new gravestone. If anyone wants to lay flowers on her grave anytime in the future, it is located in Southern Cemetery Manchester in section M

 

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  • Gravestone Angel Of the Meadow 2010.jpg
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Five minutes away from where Angel's body was found, is a Church, St Michael's. Adjoining the church back in the 70's was a hostel for alcoholic homeless men called the Morning Star. Did Angel meet her fate there before she was moved to Miller Street? There must be a register of the residents of the time, and a staff registry. I recall there were a couple of deaths there at the hostel back in the day, about the same time as the stated timeline for Angel. Very close. Could possibly be related. Could be a serial killer whose DNA isnt on the database.
 

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