UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #11

[esther43]

It is the same person!
Once a reg in LL's time in hospital
Now a consultant after almost a decade

This unit looks extremely packed, cluttered and claustrophobic.
JMO

Her interest in being in room 1 is more likely to be rooted in her having access to the sicker/ more vulnerable babies as they are more prone to complication IMO.
However, it is common for nurses to prefer working in ICU and as a band 6 it would make sense to have LL work in there.
I'm not sure if when a band 6 is in charge they would still be given a high need baby to care for whilst running a shift.
Maybe a question thats a question that @marynnu could answer.

 

[Tortoise]

I wonder if they are delaying presenting baby K's case until the end, so that the defence can pick up where the prosecution leaves off, with their own evidence about her being able to move the breathing tube by herself.

 

[Dotta]

I wonder if they are delaying presenting baby K's case until the end, so that the defence can pick up where the prosecution leaves off, with their own evidence about her being able to move the breathing tube by herself.

The word "delay" from your post jumped on me
This whole case has been dragging for sooooo long (from 2017), it is like a saga.

Imagine if she is actually innocent.
So many years ruined, especially youth!

But if guilty, I can understand the whole process of gathering evidence takes time.

But still!

JMO

 

[marynnu]

Her interest in being in room 1 is more likely to be rooted in her having access to the sicker/ more vulnerable babies as they are more prone to complication IMO.
However, it is common for nurses to prefer working in ICU and as a band 6 it would make sense to have LL work in there.
I'm not sure if when a band 6 is in charge they would still be given a high need baby to care for whilst running a shift.
Maybe a question thats a question that @marynnu could answer.

I can only give you my own experience. The unit I worked on was almost always very busy and understaffed by the time I left (in 2016, by coincidence). At one time the shift lead on days never had patients, but sadly that principle died out! I was often both shift lead and had the sickest babies - 2 vents was not uncommon.
I agree, IMO the motive for being in Room 1 would be to have the most poorly babies. They're more interesting, to be honest, and lots of staff prefer this level of work. So I don't think it signifies anything.

 

[Sundial]

I had a similar thought upon seeing that. It would make it easier for her to have access if she was designated to room 1.

I had no idea room 1 was so separated from the other nurseries either.

Not sure if this is mentioned here yet either; but the floor plan also shows the window in nursery 1 is blocked out by film. Also the way the one incubator appears to be slightly behind the door (with the drugs cabinet). Just my opinion, but it does cast doubt on the whole lighting thing and what can be seen from the doorway. JMO

 

[Sundial]

that’s fair enough. I haven’t seen anything bitchy from her. No talking behind backs, no ostracism of other, no derogatory comments. Busybody I would agree with but that’s not a negative could be work orientated. The texting and use of tech I think means a preference for communication at a distance or lack of face to face high intensity coms which is normal. It’s the lack of face to face I am referring to It also means preference for low stimulation imo.

Respectfully, her discussion of parents in tiny outfits implying the nature of what they were supposedly doing; was most derogatory and so are some of her messages regarding colleagues IMO. This alone (along with parents witness testimonies and her superior asking her to leave them alone on more than one occasion) is not only unprofessional but quite frankly disrespectful and derogatory to all involved. Moo

 

[Officer Dibble]

If people thought I was killing babies, I would not put myself in the position for them to continue thinking that. I would stop that from happening, however I needed to so I wouldn't continue being a suspect.

Who cares what shift I had to change, which room I had to work in, or which hospital I might transfer to, or whatever---I just would never want to be on trial for murder.

Who was asking for her to apologise for something she didn't do?

Some coworkers were suspicious about her 'run of bad luck.' All she had to do was try to end that run of bad luck by not putting herself in the same circumstances for awhile. I would do anything to avoid being falsely accused of murder.

It wouldn't have been suspicious for her to say she was overwhelmed by the recent sudden collapses and to take a break or stay in room 3 and 4 for awhile, to emotionally recover. Then if the collapses continued, she would no longer be suspected.

i have to say I agree with you. JMO MOO

 

[Anxala]

So I think the jury will be inclined to attach some importance to yesterday’s response . They might look at her response and assume that this is someone she cared about very deeply, and this may be the first time she has heard their voice in several years, so it is understandable that she would be upset .

RSBM and guilty/not guilty aside:

^ It's interesting that we, myself included, seem to have collectively concluded that her emotional response was one of overwhelming sorrow/pain generated by eg. memories of lost friendship/love, better times etc etc. It could equally have come from a place of overwhelming anger/rage at someone who she felt betrayed her and that she might see as key to her ending up in the dock.

Just a thought. One could be just as triggering as the other.

 

[marynnu]

I wonder if they are delaying presenting baby K's case until the end, so that the defence can pick up where the prosecution leaves off, with their own evidence about her being able to move the breathing tube by herself.

It might also be that Baby K was born & died in February 2016? I don't know the dates, but possibly this is out of consideration for the parents.

 

[Tortoise]

It might also be that Baby K was born & died in February 2016? I don't know the dates, but possibly this is out of consideration for the parents.

Personally I would be surprised if a trial was re-scheduled to avoid anniversaries. But we will see. I think taking the events out of sequence, specifically interrupting the flow of contextual background information such as Dr Jayaram suspecting LL and her being moved to day shifts will have been a decision taken to aid both sides in presenting their cases. If the defence has evidence to lead which is to do with baby K, as Mr Myers said he did, the prosecution presenting baby K's evidence now and then the defence presenting its evidence a month later might put one of the sides at a disadvantage, or be confusing for the jury. JMO

 

[Tortoise]

"Yvonne Griffiths, who is a neonatal unit manager at the Countess of Chester, is first in the witness box today. She's giving evidence on Total Parenteral Nutrition (TPN) bags and how they are stored at the hospital

The jury are being shown a photo of the treatment room at the Countess of Chester where medicines and kit was stored. Ms Griffiths is explaining that there was one set of keys for a refrigerator that stored controlled drugs"

^ This was evidence reported on 30th Nov for baby F.

I've been trying to work out where this treatment room was on the floorplan. Thinking perhaps it's the room labelled sterile store?




The Trial of Lucy Letby
@LucyLetbyTrial

The jurors were also presented with this image of the floor plan of the neonatal unit.

 

[marynnu]

"Yvonne Griffiths, who is a neonatal unit manager at the Countess of Chester, is first in the witness box today. She's giving evidence on Total Parenteral Nutrition (TPN) bags and how they are stored at the hospital

The jury are being shown a photo of the treatment room at the Countess of Chester where medicines and kit was stored. Ms Griffiths is explaining that there was one set of keys for a refrigerator that stored controlled drugs"

^ This was evidence reported on 30th Nov for baby F.

I've been trying to work out where this treatment room was on the floorplan. Thinking perhaps it's the room labelled sterile store?

View attachment 403752


The Trial of Lucy Letby
@LucyLetbyTrial

The jurors were also presented with this image of the floor plan of the neonatal unit.

That's a bit odd IMO. Fridges don't contain any controlled drugs as far as I know. And you'd normally have a separate set of keys for CDs. But anyway, I would agree that the fridge was stored in the "sterile store" going by what we've heard so far.

 

[Sweeper2000]

I would like other peoples take on something. After the Lacey dress comments LL said a joke about “greys anatomy“. I couldn’t figure out if this was a reference to the aesthetics of the mom or was her feigning innocence about her own awareness of such things. The former is bitchy the latter is the definition of tame imo.

this is the quote from the Chester standard.

11:45am

Letby messages a colleague to say that night had 'only 8 babies' in the unit, and there is a discussion over transporting a baby to Stoke.
She adds: "I think I need to see greys anatomy !!!"
Later in the conversation, Letby messages to say Child I "had abdo scan that was fine".

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Thursday, February 2

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

are we even sure it was a reference to the mom in a lacey dress?

 

[JosieJo]

I would like other peoples take on something. After the Lacey dress comments LL said a joke about “greys anatomy“. I couldn’t figure out if this was a reference to the aesthetics of the mom or was her feigning innocence about her own awareness of such things. The former is bitchy the latter is the definition of tame imo.

this is the quote from the Chester standard.

11:45am

Letby messages a colleague to say that night had 'only 8 babies' in the unit, and there is a discussion over transporting a baby to Stoke.
She adds: "I think I need to see greys anatomy !!!"
Later in the conversation, Letby messages to say Child I "had abdo scan that was fine".

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Thursday, February 2

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

are we even sure it was a reference to the mom in a lacey dress?

I'm not sure what to think as the reporting seems disjointed...but there is quite a bit of "sex in hospital rooms" in Greys Anatomy

 

[Sweeper2000]

I'm not sure what to think as the reporting seems disjointed...but there is quite a bit of "sex in hospital rooms" in Greys Anatomy

Hmmmmmm. There is a lot of sex in everything and tbh I wouldnt be surprised if they were up to it in that bedroom On the ward.

I think that would be an indication to feigned innocence on LL behalf. in all honesty I don’t think her mentioning the Lacey dress is derogatory at all. Seems so within the bounds of normal banter. Also tame.

I wouldn’t be surprised if they were up to it but I would be flabbergasted if I was LL in that situation.

 

[JosieJo]

Hmmmmmm. There is a lot of sex in everything and tbh I wouldnt be surprised if they were up to it in that bedroom On the ward.

I think that would be an indication to feigned innocence on LL behalf. in all honesty I don’t think her mentioning the Lacey dress is derogatory at all. Seems so within the bounds of normal banter. Also tame.

I wouldn’t be surprised if they were up to it but I would be flabbergasted if I was LL in that situation.

Parents spend months in these places ..its their bedroom. It's not something I would like to judge anyone on.

To be honest it could be anything from being correct, being mistaken....or even being over dramatic and made up just to start a conversation with a friend..who knows.

 

[katydid23]

Hmmmmmm. There is a lot of sex in everything and tbh I wouldnt be surprised if they were up to it in that bedroom On the ward.

I think that would be an indication to feigned innocence on LL behalf. in all honesty I don’t think her mentioning the Lacey dress is derogatory at all. Seems so within the bounds of normal banter. Also tame.

I wouldn’t be surprised if they were up to it but I would be flabbergasted if I was LL in that situation.

It does seem derogatory and inappropriate to discuss the parent's very private business with others, for no apparent reason other than to laugh.

How is it not derogatory to describe the Lacey dress as 'barely covering anything.?' What business is it of hers or her coworkers, what this anxious mother of a sick baby was wearing to bed that night?

Is it 'normal banter' for nurses in the NICU to discuss the private night lives of the patient's families?

Why would you be flabbergasted if the parents had been having relations that night? Maybe they needed to find some comfort?

 

[Sweeper2000]

Not really about private relations I wouldn’t be thinking of that. But if I knocked on the door and was greeted by the sight of a barely covered woman my ears would be red and my eyes firmly locked on the ceiling. Jmo

 

[marynnu]

All of it is pre made at the hospital pharmacy. Think the docs put in a prescription and it’s sent up. Think todays evidence will cover when and if LL had any direct involvement when handling the bag for child L.

This infusion would not be made up in the pharmacy. That only applies to TPN.

 

[Legal]

Not really about private relations I wouldn’t be thinking of that. But if I knocked on the door and was greeted by the sight of a barely covered woman my ears would be red and my eyes firmly locked on the ceiling. Jmo

Just a thought as I have no idea about the logistics of these things but would there be a need to knock on the door? Wouldn't there be a way of communicating by telephone or mobile phone? I can't remember the context of why LL knocked on the door but I'm just wondering if this was normal. Surely the goal of these rooms is to allow the parents some privacy and alone time to sleep/ cry/ console each other.