UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #16

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I am hoping for some context on the FB searches when the defence presents. They’ve already said she searched for lots of families, her searching wasn’t limited to the babies in this trial. If it turns out she searched for 150 families, then it would be odd if some of these babies didn’t appear in her search history.

Furthermore, when you look at some of the timings, she’s spending less than a minute on their FB page, which doesn’t seem to fit with someone seeking enjoyment from people’s grief, it’s more like a quick check in. Putting aside the gross invasion of privacy, I feel like I’d probably have expected her to search these families more frequently than she did.

I do however recognise that her patterns of searching suggest a link in her mind between some of the babies in this case, irrespective of whether they died or not. JMO.
Thought that as well. Is there a way to see if she was just browsing past people. Typical viewing habit, allot of people will waste time just checking out people’s profiles, more or less aimlessly. 50 fb searches in ten minutes yeh literally just scrolling fb.
 
There is definitely linkage. When you see Katy’s post upthread with the FB search timelines it really does send a chill down your spine.
Can anyone provide the thread number on that post. Might be infornation to be gathered please
 
Thought that as well. Is there a way to see if she was just browsing past people. Typical viewing habit, allot of people will waste time just checking out people’s profiles, more or less aimlessly. 50 fb searches in ten minutes yeh literally just scrolling fb.
I thought the testimony was that she SEARCHED the names to find those specific FBS. That seems different than just scrolling through aimlessly, IMO.
 
I thought the testimony was that she SEARCHED the names to find those specific FBS. That seems different than just scrolling through aimlessly, IMO.
You see I’m not sure, think of it this way. If she has searched loads and loads of families how did she remember each individual name? I could totally understand if it was just the names of people involved in the charges whom she would have a reason to remember but if it includes others I’m not sure. I’m not sure if we have heard anything to say about the manner in which the searches were made. If she did type each name individually or otherwise.
 
Even I know the basics about those 3 things and I am not trained in healthcare. It was very surprising that she told LE she didn't know about air embolisms. That seems hard to believe that someone trained to set up IV lines would not know about that.
Hi was the proper transcript said though?
She didn't know what an air embolism was or perhaps she didn't know the baby had a suspected air embolism?
The odd word can make a big difference.
Just an opinion
 
Besides, she watched BBC programme about dangers of AirE and checked info about haemophilia - according to her texts.


I've seen theTV programme about air embolism mentioned before. Do you know when it was referred to in the trial ? I hadn't heard about that programme but LL did refer to watching this episode of "An hour to save your life".

In one message referring to Baby A's death, Letby said: 'We all need answers. ' She told a colleague later that she had been watching An Hour To Save Your Life, a TV documentary following life on a neonatal unit. The woman said she did not watch such programmes, explaining: 'get enough in work'.

Baby A died on 8th June 2015. The episode about the neonatal ward aired on 9th June 2015 but the following quote is from the trailer which is dated 2nd June 2015:

Consultant-" We have a baby who has got stomach and bowel in the wrong place, in her chest. Often they will swallow a lot of air into their bowel as well. So they will start to inflate their stomach and the bowels inside the chest and that will just put even more pressure on the lungs. And eventually if that was allowed to persist she would effectively suffocate"

The baby in the programme had a congenital diaphragmatic hernia (a defect in the diaphram) so the bowel and stomach were higher up than normal, and already squashing her lungs. However, the end result is very similar to some of LL's alleged attacks, where she allegedly injected air, milk or clear fluid to inflate the stomach/bowel, causing the diaphragm to splint. Eg baby C who died on 14th June 2015:

Baby C - A premature baby allegedly murdered by a nurse 'suffocated' after having air deliberately injected into his stomach, a court heard today. - 'His collapse is consistent with a volume of air being injected into his stomach,' Dr Evans said. 'A sufficient injection of air into the stomach will cause what is called the splinting of the diaphragm. 'This has to be able to move up and down for the patient to breathe properly. 'With a lot of air, the diaphragm can't move and you will soon suffocate, you won't be able to breathe and you collapse pretty quickly. 'The lungs cannot get fresh air or oxygen and without fresh oxygen you become hypoxic and you cannot survive without oxygen and you collapse.'

ALL IMO, if guilty etc.

Link to trailer:- BBC Two - An Hour To Save Your Life, Series 2, Surviving Birth, Neonatal surgery

Link to Baby C article: Baby 'suffocated when Lucy Letby injected air into his stomach': trial

Link to LL mentioning watching "An hour to save your life": Lucy Letby 'told colleagues she had'.
 
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As previously arranged, the trial will have a later start for today.

The jury will also not be sitting on Tuesday, April 18.

The rest of the week is expected to proceed as normal sitting days.
 
I am hoping for some context on the FB searches when the defence presents. They’ve already said she searched for lots of families, her searching wasn’t limited to the babies in this trial. If it turns out she searched for 150 families, then it would be odd if some of these babies didn’t appear in her search history.

Furthermore, when you look at some of the timings, she’s spending less than a minute on their FB page, which doesn’t seem to fit with someone seeking enjoyment from people’s grief, it’s more like a quick check in. Putting aside the gross invasion of privacy, I feel like I’d probably have expected her to search these families more frequently than she did.

I do however recognise that her patterns of searching suggest a link in her mind between some of the babies in this case, irrespective of whether they died or not. JMO.
I disagree with your feelings that Facebook searching people is a ".....gross invasion of privacy....". In her context it might be unethical and unprofessional but anything you put on FB is public, if you don't want it to be then just share it to your friends on there. Better yet, turn FB off completely!
 
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Even I know the basics about those 3 things and I am not trained in healthcare. It was very surprising that she told LE she didn't know about air embolisms. That seems hard to believe that someone trained to set up IV lines would not know about that.
Do we know, specifically, what she said about them in the police interview? I'm sure it was quoted on here back in the distant mists of time.
 
You see I’m not sure, think of it this way. If she has searched loads and loads of families how did she remember each individual name? I could totally understand if it was just the names of people involved in the charges whom she would have a reason to remember but if it includes others I’m not sure. I’m not sure if we have heard anything to say about the manner in which the searches were made. If she did type each name individually or otherwise.
She is accused of using night shifts to launch many attacks because she knew parents were unlikely to visit the neonatal ward.

Prosecutors claim she showed an 'unusual interest' in the families of her alleged victims, with evidence from her computer said to show how she would 'on occasion' search for them online 'in quick succession'.




The nurse accused of murdering seven babies and attempting to murder ten others searched for the parents of alleged victims on Facebook in the hours after they died, a jury has been told.

The court heard that Letby finished her run of night shifts at 8am on 14 June after Child C’s death.

At 3.52pm the same day, police evidence shows Letby searched for Child C’s parents on Facebook.

“That is the first of her days off having come off duty at about 8am that morning,” said Mr Johnson.

“And the timing may well suggest that, having done a night shift, [searching for Child C’s parents on Facebook] was one of the first things she did when she woke up.”
The court has already heard that Letby “tracked” the family of twins Child A and Child B on Facebook.


 
I disagree with your feelings that Facebook searching people is a ".....gross invasion of privacy....". In her context it might be unethical a d unprofessional but anything you put on FB is public, if you don't want it to be then just share it to your friends on there. Better yet, turn FB off completely!
Yes, that’s what I meant, it being unethical for a nurse to seek out information on patients in this way. It feels like an invasion of privacy from the patient’s perspective. Agree that anything you make public on social media is out there for the world to see.
 
She is accused of using night shifts to launch many attacks because she knew parents were unlikely to visit the neonatal ward.

Prosecutors claim she showed an 'unusual interest' in the families of her alleged victims, with evidence from her computer said to show how she would 'on occasion' search for them online 'in quick succession'.




The nurse accused of murdering seven babies and attempting to murder ten others searched for the parents of alleged victims on Facebook in the hours after they died, a jury has been told.

The court heard that Letby finished her run of night shifts at 8am on 14 June after Child C’s death.

At 3.52pm the same day, police evidence shows Letby searched for Child C’s parents on Facebook.

“That is the first of her days off having come off duty at about 8am that morning,” said Mr Johnson.

“And the timing may well suggest that, having done a night shift, [searching for Child C’s parents on Facebook] was one of the first things she did when she woke up.”
The court has already heard that Letby “tracked” the family of twins Child A and Child B on Facebook.


Searched "......on her computer...."? I thought these searches were susspoed to have been done on her phone?

If she's searching on a computer immediately after the incidents that tends to suggest it was a hospital computer so not exactly much attempt to hide it!
 

Facebook Searches (child a)​


9th June 2015 9.58am: Letby searched on Facebook for Child A's mum's name at 9.58am on June 9.
10th June 2015 11.31pmLetby is recorded making another search on Facebook for the mum of Child A and B at 11.31pm on June 10.
25th June 2015 9.50pm:A further search is made on June 25 at 9.50pm.
2nd or 9th September 2015 Letby had made a further search on Facebook for the mum of Child A on September 2, 2015.
(Chester Standard report 2nd September, BBC 9th September)

Ms Hocknell is asked by the defence about Letby's Facebook searches.

She is asked whether Letby searched on Facebook for the parents of children other than those listed in the charges.

Ms Hocknell confirms that is the case. "There are a lot of searches for different people."

 
Searched "......on her computer...."? I thought these searches were susspoed to have been done on her phone?

If she's searching on a computer immediately after the incidents that tends to suggest it was a hospital computer so not exactly much attempt to hide it!
For child C, she may have been on her laptop at home.

“And the timing may well suggest that, having done a night shift, [searching for Child C’s parents on Facebook] was one of the first things she did when she woke up.”

Murder-accused nurse searched Facebook for parents of newborn babies after they died, jury told


But for the other ones, Child A's parents, it doesn't specifically say computer:

9th June 2015 9.58am: Letby searched on Facebook for Child A's mum's name at 9.58am on June 9.
10th June 2015 11.31pmLetby is recorded making another search on Facebook for the mum of Child A and B at 11.31pm on June 10.
25th June 2015 9.50pm:A further search is made on June 25 at 9.50pm.
2nd or 9th September 2015 Letby had made a further search on Facebook for the mum of Child A on September 2, 2015.
(Chester Standard report 2nd September, BBC 9th September)


Chester Standard live reporting - Tuesday 18th October
 




Dan O'Donoghue


I'm back at Manchester Crown Court for the murder trial of nurse Lucy Letby. The jury have now heard evidence for each of her 17 alleged victims, today/over the next week or so, the prosecution will give an 'overarching summary' of the case (will include police interviews etc)


Jury are now in after a slight delay (technical reasons). Prosecution are reading a summary of Ms Letby's arrest dates. She was arrested on three occasions, 3 July 2018, 10 June 2019 and 10 November 2020


https://twitter.com/MrDanDonoghue

 
Just splurging some thoughts, sorry if I’m jumping from one tangent to another, I’m just fascinated by this case and over the months of testimony we’ve endured so far there’s so much on my mind right now in regards to LL.

I don’t necessarily think it’s unusual if she hasn’t done any traceable research on AE because imo it should be something a trained nurse would know the dangers of. However, at one point she claimed in a police interview (if I recall correctly) that she didn’t know what an AE was. Yet we’ve heard LL told a colleague early on that she watched a documentary that discussed AE, which sort of conflicts with her having no idea what it was.

If you’re a nurse preparing IV lines, or any kind of injections in any setting I would imagine that you’d be trained on the importance of priming the needle to make sure no air is administered to the patient. I’d imagine (although I don’t know for sure) that you’d also be taught the dangers of AE too. When you deal with patients who have all kinds of NG/NJ tubes and lines, especially if you are going to be administering feeds and medications using a method other than orally then you’d have it drilled into you at multiple points during your training that administering air can kill.

If guilty, then it wouldn’t be surprising if LL had researched the consequences of AE and insulin poisoning, the likelihood of death for example, the amount of air/ insulin required to kill a baby who weighs X amount. Although you’d be told that insulin overdose can kill, if you wanted to be sure the ‘job’ was done, you’d want to know a rough idea of how much to administer. Then again, it does seem most likely she didn’t research this as if guilty, it appears she was conducting ‘experiments’, some babies died, others lived but with lasting damage, others had no permanent effects. If guilty, I wonder if one of the reasons she kept certain hospital notes was part of her ‘research’, keeping a record of how babies deteriorated after receiving X amount of air/insulin, the medications and how they reacted to the life saving treatment. I could see that, if guilty, by the time she got to baby O & P she had almost ‘perfected’ her method. Knew that if she wanted to kill rather than seriously harm then she had to do X Y Z to ensure babies wouldn’t respond to CPR.

However, if guilty, I also see a possible conscious decision to make sure she didn’t actually kill every child, maybe she just wanted to seriously harm a few, purposely to avoid immediate suspicion. I think that if every baby she allegedly harmed had died then she’d have been suspected a lot sooner. By ‘only’ seriously harming certain babies it’s made it a lot more difficult, if guilty, to identify who the alleged victims were and which collapses/deaths were genuinely nothing to do with LL.

On the other hand, if innocent, I wouldn’t be surprised if she researched the symptoms of babies who’d collapsed. It’s obvious from the evidence that she was aware of each collapse/death and that she spoke to colleagues about possible causes or reasons for each event. So if there were internet searches about possible reasons for unexpected collapse in neonates for example it wouldn’t really point towards guilt. If the term air embolism was searched though I’d find that highly suspicious, especially when at no point had she suggested ae as a possible cause of symptoms seen in the babies who collapsed.

If guilty, the level of calculation and deception involved in pulling this off over a year long period (as far as we are aware) is very troubling and indicative imo of a covert narcissist. Unlike the more often seen overt narcissist, a covert narcissist can fool more people for longer without ever raising red flags based on their personality and interactions with others. A covert narcissist does have a sense of grandiose and self importance like the better known narcissist, but it manifests as anxiety about one’s self worth, and what others think of them. IMO this would tie in, if guilty with alot of the messages we’ve seen aswell as the now infamous note. Instead of openly acting like they are above everyone and deserve better treatment, a covert narcissist will fish for compliments in a more subtle way. Usually by putting themself down, displaying a kind and caring demeanour but with slight oddities that aren’t your typical red flags, just things that appear a ‘bit strange’ at the time. Which IMO, if guilty, reflects slightly in some of her comments and actions towards grieving parents in this case, aswell as how, on reflection some of her messages seem a bit odd. But of course hindsight is everything.

All MOO and sorry for the rambling trail of thought!
 




Dan O'Donoghue

DC Colin Johnson, from Cheshire Police, is now in the witness box. He was an exhibits officer for the case, he confirms to the prosecution the process by which an item is seized and logged at a crime scene and then stored at the police station (where they remain in a locked room)

DC Johnson confirms that Ms Letby's Chester home was searched between 0850 on 3 July 2018 and 1715 on 6 July. During this time a number of items were seized and held in evidence. Jury currently being shown a diagram, mapping out Ms Letby's home

Court is now being show pictures of Ms Letby's home on the morning of 3 July, we're currently seeing images of the nurse's bedroom that morning (she was arrested at 6am that day)

Jury shown images of a mirror in her bedroom, below this two handbags were recovered - in one of those handbags three handwritten notes were found. They are one three pieces of paper, one blue another yellow and another white

They have just quickly been flashed on screen and are now being passed around the court. From what I could see in the brief moment they were on screen, Ms Letby had written 'help' and 'please help me' on the yellow piece of paper (among a lot of other text)
 
12:55pm

The three handwritten notes are shown to the court.
One is a blue post-it note, with handwriting featuring Letby's thoughts. The other two feature the name of a doctor several times, one saying "[name of doctor] I loved you" and "[name of doctor] my best friend."
Other messages on the notes, which have been densely-packed and messages among swirls of writing, read:
"I can't do this any more"
"Help me"
"We tried our best and it wasn't enough"
"I want someone to help me but they can't"
One message, in thicker handwriting overlaid on the yellow note, has the message "HELP".
 
1:00pm

Another photo of Letby's bedroom is shown, with a wall slogan 'Leave Sparkles wherever you go'. The message is repeated on a small tabletop decoration.
A page from Letby's 2016 diary is shown to the court, with a note on April 8: 'LD [long day] twins'. The following day is 'LD twins resus]. It is followed in a different coloured pen by 'Salsa - Buckley'.
A page of June 20-26 from Letby's diary, has for June 23: 'LD ([name of Child O's initial])'
June 24: 'LD ([name of Child P's initial) A+E'
June 25: 'LD ([name of Child Q's initial)'
 
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