UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #16

[Sweeper2000]

257 handover sheets?!
257! What on earth? Is she a hoarder?
Considering that some babies were in hospital for a month or more though, there could be 257 individual sheets but only relating to say 30 patients for example.

I’d like to know how many different patients these handover sheets were for.

Right, that’s a lot of handover notes. And apparently has been ongoing for longer than that year. That’s a bit more than a bad habit and seems more like an obsession or similar.

 

[Legal]

3:36pm

The interview transcripts from the three times Lucy Letby was arrested will be read out to the court.
These will be summarised from the original full-length footage of the interviews, which were fully transcribed.
The summaries are agreed by both the prosecution and defence.

 

[Tortoise]

She moved most of that paperwork there too, when she bought her house in April 2016.

 

[DianaWW]

She moved most of that paperwork there too, when she bought her house in April 2016.

That would probably explain the box marked 'keep'....although why she wanted to keep them is another thing. JMO.

 

[ColourPurple]

So the defence is, ok she took home 257 handover sheets but 236 weren't related to the indictment. And 4 of the babies in the indictment didn't have any paperwork at LL's house.

So that's all right then!

They have to be careful though as the jury may well think the other handover sheets were there for a reason too. IMO, if guilty

 

[Tortoise]

So the jury's not going to be shown the actual interviews? Why not? Her demeanour is important, not just her words.

 

[LadyEdgeworth]

3:36pm

The interview transcripts from the three times Lucy Letby was arrested will be read out to the court.
These will be summarised from the original full-length footage of the interviews, which were fully transcribed.
The summaries are agreed by both the prosecution and defence.

Oh, I had assumed the jury might see/hear the recordings of the interviews rather than a transcript that has been cut down a bit. However this trial has been going on for a long time now I imagine everyone is ready to be done

 

[GoodDayToYouSir]

Bear in mind there could have been other victims that never showed any sign of taking ill. There could be babies that didn’t collapse but just vomited or had slightly low blood glucose levels for example. There is the possibility that patients can be harmed without anyone ever knowing they were harmed.

Like part of an experiment, maybe given too little or a different method used that didn’t have the expected effect.
MOO

Something like that would make more sense of this whole thing for me.

I’ve said it before, but the fact that based on the evidence we have been presented with (which in turn is the evidence which the court has allowed to be admitted into evidence), we have someone who worked without apparent incident at the same hospital for a period of four years, and who was well liked and respected overall by colleagues. And who , one day, went to work and within 20 minutes of starting her shift, allegedly murdered a baby for the first time.

In my opinion, that just does not happen. You don’t start out with murder (unless of course, it is a crime of passion or possibly of revenge or someone experiencing a full on psychotic break with reality). Killers work up to murder , usually by committing other lesser crimes of increasing severity such as assault. And we also haven’t really had much in the way of context to explain what could have triggered a person to allegedly commit murder at that time.

Either she is innocent, and this is all a terrible miscarriage of justice. Or, if guilty, things will be revealed after legal proceedings have concluded which reveal the backstory and the escalation which got us to this point. Or, if guilty, maybe there was no backstory or escalation, and, if guilty, she is one of the tiny percentage of killers who doesn’t fit the pattern of predictable escalation and really did one day, allegedly just snap and commit murder. Allegedly, if guilty, et cetera.

 

[Tortoise]

That would probably explain the box marked 'keep'....although why she wanted to keep them is another thing. JMO.

That box was found in a wardrobe at her parents' house

 

[GoodDayToYouSir]

Oh, I was thinking they were nicknames for her and the doctor.

Thanks for that. I was just sick in my mouth.

 

[Tortoise]

Notes include 'Appropriate workforce', 'Consultant', 'Countess of Chester Hospital' 'Equality and Diversity', 'No-one will ever know what happened and why + I am a failure'

'I can't recover from this'

'Keep this between ourselves', I don't think I can ever go back Too much has happened/changed'

LIVE: Lucy Letby trial, Monday, April 17

Does this refer to her talking to herself, or is she writing a note of what doc choc said to her?

 

[Blondiexoxo]

Right, that’s a lot of handover notes. And apparently has been ongoing for longer than that year. That’s a bit more than a bad habit and seems more like an obsession or similar.

Obsessive compulsive maybe? Definitely has been going on for a long time to have that sort of collection. Another thought is maybe she developed obsessions with her patients. To start with she could have took notes home to remember them by when they were discharged. Could she have started obsessing over whether they would experience lasting difficulties due to being born premature or with disabilities. Did she obsess over how they were doing once discharged and look up their parents online as a way to follow their lives from afar.

Some sort of attachment disorder could cause this. If guilty did she become too attached? Couldn’t bare to not be involved in their lives, worried if the babies would have good loving parents, couldn’t bare it when they had to go, and decided that the only way to stop her from obsessing over how they were doing once at home was to ensure that the babies she was most obsessed with didn’t go home atall.

Her relationship with her parents could also signal an attachment disorder. Todays evidence has me thinking this could be yet another possibility

All IMO MOO

 

[Legal]

3:46pm

Prosecutor Philip Astbury and a Cheshire Police officer will be reading through the transcripts to the court.
Letby recalls, in the first interview, the care she provided for Child A.
She recalls Child A appeared 'quite pale and mottled' and required 'full resuscitation'.
She remembered Child A, and going to his cotside. He appeared 'a bit jittery' - 'making involuntary jerking movements', 'can be a sign of low blood sugar'.
"It's common for pre-term babies."
She said staff were conscious to get Child A fluids.
At the time of fluid administration of the time of the shift handover, there were "no concerns". She was with nurse Melanie Taylor.
Child A had gone a few hours without fluids, which was "not ideal".
She said after the fluids were connected, Child A's "colour changed".

 

[LadyEdgeworth]

Notes include 'Appropriate workforce', 'Consultant', 'Countess of Chester Hospital' 'Equality and Diversity', 'No-one will ever know what happened and why + I am a failure'

'I can't recover from this'

'Keep this between ourselves', I don't think I can ever go back Too much has happened/changed'

LIVE: Lucy Letby trial, Monday, April 17

Does this refer to her talking to herself, or is she writing a note of what doc choc said to her?

Isn't "Keep this between ourselves" what Dr Choc said after forwarding her the emails/telling her the contents of the meetings? It seems like she is talking to herself in these notes though they're not passing them back and forth in my opinion.

 

[Tortoise]

Isn't "Keep this between ourselves" what Dr Choc said after forwarding her the emails/telling her the contents of the meetings? It seems like she is talking to herself in these notes though they're not passing them back and forth in my opinion.

I wondered if ourselves could be an alter ego...

 

[ColourPurple]

Something like that would make more sense of this whole thing for me.

I’ve said it before, but the fact that based on the evidence we have been presented with (which in turn is the evidence which the court has allowed to be admitted into evidence), we have someone who worked without apparent incident at the same hospital for a period of four years, and who was well liked and respected overall by colleagues. And who , one day, went to work and within 20 minutes of starting her shift, allegedly murdered a baby for the first time.

In my opinion, that just does not happen. You don’t start out with murder (unless of course, it is a crime of passion or possibly of revenge or someone experiencing a full on psychotic break with reality). Killers work up to murder , usually by committing other lesser crimes of increasing severity such as assault. And we also haven’t really had much in the way of context to explain what could have triggered a person to allegedly commit murder at that time.

Either she is innocent, and this is all a terrible miscarriage of justice. Or, if guilty, things will be revealed after legal proceedings have concluded which reveal the backstory and the escalation which got us to this point. Or, if guilty, maybe there was no backstory or escalation, and, if guilty, she is one of the tiny percentage of killers who doesn’t fit the pattern of predictable escalation and really did one day, allegedly just snap and commit murder. Allegedly, if guilty, et cetera.

If guilty, unlike most serial killers,she worked in an environment where she may have innocently witnessed a baby dying after an unsuccesful resus. So maybe that was the trigger, rather than a gradual build up. When she wanted to go back in room 1 after baby A's death she said it was how she had dealt with it before. "It" I'm assuming being a previous death. If she had innocently witnessed a previous death, maybe the "thrill" of that, and the attention she received after it, led to her trying to recreate it again and again.

 

[Legal]

3:50pm

Letby said she did not recall having physical contact with Child A at that point, until after he deteriorated.
It was 'within maybe five minutes' of the TPN bag being administered that Child A became 'pale and mottled'.
He had become 'pale, almost white', and said there was 'something wrong' - Child A could have had a 'sudden collapse'.
The mottled appearance 'could be a sign of low blood sugars', where a baby could be pale but have 'reddy-purple' patches. Child A was 'pale' in the centre and the mottling was on the 'hands and feet.' Child A was not breathing.

 

[Legal]

3:54pm

Letby said she went to observe Child A and saw he 'was not breathing'. Dr David Harkness was also in the room, Letby said, as was nurse Melanie Taylor. Dr Harkness was called over.
Asked to describe the rash, Letby says she thinks it was 'on the side the line was in', on the left side, but there was 'predominantly paleness'.
The advice was to 'stop the fluids immediately' as there may have been an issue with the long line for Child A.

 

[LadyEdgeworth]

I wondered if ourselves could be an alter ego...

Honestly some of the word salad she writes seems that way to me, a close relative of mine has these kind of 'issues' and all his facebook posts are written in this same way of disconnected thoughts, third person speaking and it's almost like he's writing in his own code. I see that here

MOO

 

[ColourPurple]

Isn't "Keep this between ourselves" what Dr Choc said after forwarding her the emails/telling her the contents of the meetings? It seems like she is talking to herself in these notes though they're not passing them back and forth in my opinion.

And the "I can't do this anymore" which featured in one of the notes is what she texted to the Doc too. There was another text to a nurse colleague that said why do I have to hide away, which was featured in another note too. I'm begining to wonder if she wrote scripts of what she was going to say in texts, rather than/or as well as making notes after. If guilty,IMO