UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #17

[Sundial]

I always assumed Bergerac was in relation to the detective series from the 80s. Just googled it and I didn't realise it was a place or a brand of whiskey!

I didn’t actually know of the detective when we discussed it the other week. Never heard of it.
I had an inkling it was a wine from an advert played repeatedly over and over (I think) when I was younger. I’m sure it was the same wine.

It’s an advert for the chocolate (ironic really) ferrero roscher at Christmas where her husband keeps asking the wife to bring their guests the nice chocolate in. She brings in everything from pudding, coffee to Bergerac to avoid bringing in the chocolates she loves (seemingly doesn’t want to share them). She pronounces the “Bergerac” (I’m sure it was) very excitedly to deflect from the chocolates until the husband reminds her.

Always stuck in my head lol (annoying advert!!) so when it was raised the other day I just assumed it was that same wine.
Put with whiskey and Bergerac, other than the place, the only thing I can think of here are drinks but still; very bizarre IMO

 

[DinerMite]

I didn’t actually know of the detective when we discussed it the other week. Never heard of it.
I had an inkling it was a wine from an advert played repeatedly over and over (I think) when I was younger. I’m sure it was the same wine.

It’s an advert for the chocolate (ironic really) ferrero roscher at Christmas where her husband keeps asking the wife to bring their guests the nice chocolate in. She brings in everything from pudding, coffee to Bergerac to avoid bringing in the chocolates she loves (seemingly doesn’t want to share them). She pronounces the “Bergerac” (I’m sure it was) very excitedly to deflect from the chocolates until the husband reminds her.

Always stuck in my head lol (annoying advert!!) so when it was raised the other day I just assumed it was that same wine.
Put with whiskey and Bergerac, other than the place, the only thing I can think of here are drinks but still; very bizarre IMO

I vaguely remember that advert, that's going back eh!

Good thinking there. Although I'm not sure if it's drinks - she tends to write "Whiskey + Smudge" together as a pair so there is correlation between them both, whether that be her 2 cats or possibly a set of twins (O and P) I'm not sure.

Edit: she actually writes tigger + smudge together so that's the pairing, not whiskey sorry

 

[Dotta]

I don't think so. Neither of these appear to be effects of what's happened. The salsa dancing was very likely a regular (possibly weekly) event for her and betting on the Grand National wasn't even done by her personally, it was her dad doing it for her arranged via messages from her mum. That wasn't even initiated by LL as I think her mum asked if she wanted her dad to place a bet for her.

What I really meant was her enthusiasm when texting about such things when Babies were collapsing around her!

 

[DinerMite]

What I really meant was her enthusiasm when texting about such things when Babies were collapsing around her!

At around 1pm, Letby had messaged her mum Susan about the Grand National, which was taking place that day.

She wrote: "Is dad betting on the Grand National? If so can he see which are greys and put a bet on for me please x"

LL initiated the bet from what I can see

 

[DinerMite]

She also initiated the party if the reporting is accurate:

On a group WhatsApp post to friends just before 2pm on the same shift, she wrote: “Sorry guys, mad busy four days in work. U can come to mine if you want to. Just need to unpack first.

“Haven’t got a spare bed yet tho so cant stay unfortunately. Looking forward to a catch up. Got magnum prosecco and vodka woop. No disco ball but sure we can manage.”

Just to note, she doesn't mention whiskey as a drink of choice here

 

[esther43]

I recall thinking the same ages ago but not really sure why I did.

Seems as though the common strand was that they were both drs.

I recall thinking the same ages ago but not really sure why I did.

I recall it now, though I think I thought at the time ventress was 'putting out' more than LL which sounds kind of familiar.

 

[esther43]

I didn’t actually know of the detective when we discussed it the other week. Never heard of it.
I had an inkling it was a wine from an advert played repeatedly over and over (I think) when I was younger. I’m sure it was the same wine.

It’s an advert for the chocolate (ironic really) ferrero roscher at Christmas where her husband keeps asking the wife to bring their guests the nice chocolate in. She brings in everything from pudding, coffee to Bergerac to avoid bringing in the chocolates she loves (seemingly doesn’t want to share them). She pronounces the “Bergerac” (I’m sure it was) very excitedly to deflect from the chocolates until the husband reminds her.

Always stuck in my head lol (annoying advert!!) so when it was raised the other day I just assumed it was that same wine.
Put with whiskey and Bergerac, other than the place, the only thing I can think of here are drinks but still; very bizarre IMO

How interesting it's a brand of whiskey. I find whiskey a bit of an old man's drink!
Could have flashbacks from unrelated event. Or maybe it was the favourite drink of someone involved in the case. All total speculation and jmo

 

[WaxLyrical]

How interesting it's a brand of whiskey. I find whiskey a bit of an old man's drink!
Could have flashbacks from unrelated event. Or maybe it was the favourite drink of someone involved in the case. All total speculation and jmo

Flashback to me and my housemate having a wee dram each night during the winter to warm us up when we were in our mid 20s. Ah those were the days!

 

[DinerMite]

Initially I thought they were code names for the babies but she writes the initial of the babies name in her diary, not the initial of the codename or anything. Maybe she is just listing all her pets over the years or just writing random words down that's in her eyes view. Strange really, I really hope we get more info on this.

 

[esther43]

Flashback to me and my housemate having a wee dram each night during the winter to warm us up when we were in our mid 20s. Ah those were the days!

Scottish or Irish?

 

[Dotta]

Re black and red note - the 2nd one with the word "Love" in left corner

Phew!
I managed to decipher (in black)

"And now I am the bad guy
I wanted you to stand by me but you didn't"

 

[esther43]

I vaguely remember that advert, that's going back eh!

Good thinking there. Although I'm not sure if it's drinks - she tends to write "Whiskey + Smudge" together as a pair so there is correlation between them both, whether that be her 2 cats or possibly a set of twins (O and P) I'm not sure.

Edit: she actually writes tigger + smudge together so that's the pairing, not whiskey sorry

I think I remember the add too, does she something like 'monsieur you are spoiling us?'

 

[WaxLyrical]

Scottish or Irish?

Scottish

 

[marynnu]

I think I remember the add too, does she something like 'monsieur you are spoiling us?'

"Ambassador, with these Ferrero Rocher you are really spoiling us".

 

[Dotta]

"Ambassador, with these Ferrero Rocher you are really spoiling us".

I absolutely love Ferrero R chocolates
Rafaello!!! Mmmm

 

[esther43]

Re black and red note - the 2nd one with the word "Love" in left corner

Phew!
I managed to decipher (in black)

"And now I am the bad guy
I wanted you to stand by me but you didn't"

Based in what's been heard so far I sometimes wonder if LL was grooming Dr choc and mistakingly believed him to hold great potential as an accomplice. MOO

"We work so well together "

 

[Tortoise]

Interesting about Minna. I thought LL's responses to Minna in previous texts was a bit off. Minna reached out to LL, gushingly grateful for all her support and LL is pretty much ' no worries, goodnight, see you later and then she pursues and guides a long conversation with Dr choc talking about how devastated Minna must feel, blaming herself.

What we know about Minna.

She was in LL's early text messages, three days after death of baby D -

LL messaged Minna Lappalainen: "Work has been awful."
ML: "Oh dear. Staffing probe?"
LL: "We have had three unexpected deaths, transfer out, few sick ones, unit full. What I’ve seen has really hit me tonight."
ML: "Have you worked today?"
LL: "No, been off since Wednesday morning and now it has all hit me."
ML asks if LL tries "talking to a proper counsellor".
LL replies that she does not think she can.
ML: "Why not?"
LL: "I can't talk about it now...I can't stop crying...I just need to get it out of my system."
ML advises LL to think carefully what to do, before adding: "Maybe you need to take time off."
LL: "Work is always my priority. I won’t let it affect it. I just haven’t let myself cry over it until now. Once I’ve let it out my head will be clear."

In Aug 2015 LL messaged Minna asking if she was going to Salsa, on the day/eve after baby F was poisoned. LL had been texting another nurse that morning about her worries for baby F, and again that evening. She didn't mention it in her texts with Minna.

Minna was the shift-leader on the day of baby Q's vomiting and collapse, and went to help Mary when the alarm went off. She recorded in the nursing notes that after Q's collapse LL aspirated air from his stomach.

Prosecution - Given that Q was her designated baby and she aspirated the air, the prosecution says it is surprising that she did not make the nursing note yet she did make notes in other babies records at about the same time.

The prosecution asked Minna if LL had recorded observations for her other baby in room 1 at 8.30am, she would expect her to do observations again at 9am.

At the end of LL's shift -
Minna messages: 'Thank you for being a good friend today', adding a heart emoji.
LL: 'Don't need to thank me Minna, I'm always here for you. Please don't feel you're alone...'
ML: '...But really I'm really happy u were there for me....'
LL: 'Take care, hope you sleep well, see you tomorrow'.

LL messaged the doctor that evening asking if she should be worried about what Dr Gibbs was asking Mary, saying she'd told Mary and Minna at the desk that she was going to room 1.

On Monday when LL was told by the unit manager not to come in for her night-shift she messaged a different nurse colleague to discuss it. As far as has been reported she didn't message Mary or Minna to discuss it.


LL's text to Minna in June 2015 is similar to her text to the doc, a year and one day to the day in June 2016

LL to doc: I can't do this job if it's going to be like this. My head is a mess. Why is she ringing at this time. There must be a problem.
Doc: Lucy - you did nothing wrong at all. It is an odd time to ring, but you've had a rough few days and a good manager would realise that. There is no problem. I suspect my head is in about the same place. The management was appropriate and your recognition of an unwell baby was spot on. The care delivered was quick and accurate. I can't fault anything with your delivery of care to either baby last week. If there was anything I would have said so. Eirian knows you. Has there ever been a reason for you not to trust her?
LL: I can't talk about this now. Sorry, I just need a bit of time.
12 mins later:
LL: Sorry, that was rude. Felt completely overwhelmed & panicked for a minute. We all worked tirelessly & did everything possible, I don't see how anyone can question that. E has always been very supportive.
Doc: No it wasn’t rude. It was unexpected and that’s never nice. Ok now?
LL: I’m having a meltdown++ but think that's what I need to do. Anyway I’ll be ok. You have enough on your plate too.

 

[Tortoise]

Re black and red note - the 2nd one with the word "Love" in left corner

Phew!
I managed to decipher (in black)

"And now I am the bad guy
I wanted you to stand by me but you didn't"

well done!

I've got this for that note -

https://www.chesterstandard.co.uk/resources/images/16683528/

Tigger LLetby :heart: LLetby

[black blotch covering the words 'I’m' ?] sorry I couldn’t save you. My best friend :heart: LL

[LOVE] Smudge

Today is your [birthday covered by black blotch] My best friend LL

Engage [space] I loved you [black ink heart] please help me <->

LL. [Tigger overwriting Love] was all we needed but time let us down

LOVE ^ LL. I can’t do this any more. LLetby

Please help me HELP HELP

Lovewasallweneededbuttimeletusdown. Minna

HELP ME LOVE Please help me

Please help me [Minna squashed in gap] please help me. HELP ME [love hearts in red and black]

Smudge [redacted] LOVE HELP I don’t want to engage [redacted]

I loved you what more could I have done [redacted]. [redacted]

Keeping self to

[…] couldn’t [Tigger] I have been enough for [black blotch] self [redacted] HELP

Was I really that bad a friend/person that you could do that to me. Smudge. I don’t deserve th[blotch]

I loved you + I think you knew that. [redacted] minna [redacted]

And now I am the bad guy – I wanted you to stand by me but you didn’t

I can’t do this anymore. LLetby. I can’t do it anymore [^Smudge] Retrospectively Lovewasallweneededbuttimeletusdown LOVE [red blotch]

Lovewasallweneededbuttimeletusdown [v I loved you]

Lovewasallweneededbuttimeletusdown [redacted]

Tigger [space] my best friend [redacted 3 words]

Bergerac Kathryn

Lovewasallweneededbuttimeletusdown Lucy LLetby

My life is a joke

Kathryn de Beger Catherine [Chase?] Kathryn

Bergerac Kathryn [^what a joke] de Beger Karen Rees

Karen Rees Karen Rees [^what a joke] Hayley Cooper

I hate my life

I’ve tried my best but I can’t [space] How can life be this way.

 

[TheCraig]

Re Dr B, don't forget that the anonymous female doctor, Dr Tea said she then brought up her concerns about LL's behaviour re the triplets up in a meeting on the Monday too.

But yes, if guilty, to think that 3 unexpected collapses in 3 days, including 2 deaths wouldn't ring alarm bells, IMO shows either arrogance, confidence, a complete lack of awareness or detachment from reality or a compulsion that you have no control over, despite knowing it might look suspicious. IMO if guilty.

IMO if guilty. She's suspected of targeting multiple birth babies in this case so being presented with identical triplets would be too big a prize(for want of a better word) for her to resist given their rarity. She had to have them on her kill list even if they were the last and once the opportunity was gone she knew it wouldn't be long until it was game over for her. IMO if guilty.

 

[Marantz4250b]

For me personally I feel it’s that lack of romantic-style engagement when she talks with dr choc. Although messaging until the early hours with a make you’re not interested in is strange. Having said that she writes; “I loved you, my best friend” could mean loved deeply as a friend or more.

I can’t really determine why though, it’s just a vibe I had but in all fairness; why not consider if she was LGBT etc? Could be totally wrong of course but, I wouldn’t rule it out either.
JMO

To me she's very much an enigma. We know so little about her (which, tbh, isn't surprising) but she just seems so different from what you'd expect someone to be like who'd been charged with horrendous crimes. I mean she's about a million miles from the Bev Allitt type, imo. Female murderers always seem to me to give off a definite vibe of utter lunacy and detachment from reality along with not really caring about the consequences to themselves - Joanne Dennehy, Aieleen Wornous, etc.

LL doesn't come over like that. At least in my opinion. If you try to disregard her current situation she doesn't really give the impression of being anything other than slightly odd, if you ask me. And, tbh, I'm not even sure that that's really true as many people are odd when compared to what polite society considers to be "normal". I've certainly dated for odder (and a few who could reasonably described as absolitely bat s*it crazy) in my time.

All MOO and just my random bored Saturday afternoon musings!