UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #19

[ColourPurple]

To me it is the same people playing devils advocate/ keeping an open mind, as it was at the beginning of the trial.

I am one of the undecided…but I can tell you now, I was certainly not taken in by LL being in the witness box, if anything I felt indifferent towards her, with very little insight.

I have not seen anyone on here who has categorically said they believe she is innocent. For some people they need to exhaust every other explanation before they can form an opinion, especially when there is so much at stake. As I have said before, I truly hope the jury listens to both sides before they decide themselves - otherwise what is the point in having a trial!

For me personally, if I was absolutely positive of either her guilt or innocence, I would not feel the need to invest so much time on here over this case.

I have not seen anyone on here who has categorically said they believe she is innocent

We're not allowed to comment on guilt or innocence due to sub judice rules, so anything like that would be swiftly deleted on here. But you might see increases in people who haven't followed the trial claiming there's no evidence, she's being scapegoated, or assuming that the facebook searches and handover notes are all the jury has to go on. When those who are following the trial in more detail, have "heard" over 6 months of evidence, including copious amounts of complex medical evidence from expert medical witnesses. And we are just seeing a fraction of what the jury are hearing.

JMO

ETA just to clarify that wasn't areferring to you or anybody else personally. Just a general observation, from reading commenst about the trial online.

 

[Sweeper2000]

urghhhhh the complex medical evidence. Don’t remind me of those dark days.

 

[Dotta]

The biggest "surprise" was her taking the stand.

I don't predict any more surprises.

Only the Jury's verdict might come as surprise to some

JMO

 

[Parker Knoll]

After the defence have finished then it’s onto the prosecution cross examination of letby it then goes back to BM for one last time before prosecution and defence closing speeches judges summing up and jury out.

 

[Sweeper2000]

The biggest "surprise" was her taking the stand.

I don't predict any more surprises.

Only the Jury's verdict might come as surprise to some

JMO

I wasn’t surprised by that at all really. Not once have I seen anything to suggest she wasn’t forthcoming with the process or did not cooperate. Or indeed was acting like a guilty person with something to hide like getting rid of the evidence so to me it made sense that she will continue with that and take the stand.

 

[WaxLyrical]

I am just amazed with the amount of people who seem to have done a complete 360 just because she has been in the witness box a few hours and had a good cry ( all related to herself / cats / dead dog / commute to court )
This Hummingbird investigation is very much alive and being both recruited and worked.
I can’t actually see the sun for the red flags flapping in the wind but what do I know.
There is only one person standing in this witness box in Court 7, there is a very VERY big reason for this.

I haven’t seen anyone do a 180. People have been waiting for context around the fb searches and handover notes, despite them being ancillary to the main evidence, and so it’s nice to have some new information to discuss that isn’t simply discussing the words ‘on purpose’ for eternity.

For me, the key bit of information to come out of yesterday was the assertion from Letby that NG tubes are not routinely aspirated in the way it was suggested at the start of the case. I’m surprised that’s not being discussed more, since it’s been used to support several allegations that air must’ve been forced down the NG tubes. However, I do recognise that many people will have made up their minds now and are therefore less likely to want to discuss the specifics of the evidence, or might view these sorts of questions as people protesting Letby’s innocence. JMO.

 

[esther43]

After the defence have finished then it’s onto the prosecution cross examination of letby it then goes back to BM for one last time before prosecution and defence closing speeches judges summing up and jury out.

Ah okay! Ty

 

[Jazmania]

Im going to take a gamble ad suggest the prosecutions cross questioning will likely be the same as the defences. Except with shorter answers mostly consisting of “no” and “not unusual for me” with a spattering of “I don’t remember“. I will gamble it will be another anti climax.

I think the prosecution will go over the same ground, but won't accept such vague answers. They'll grill her again and again to get specific answers and highlight any inconsistencies in what she is saying now compared to her police interviews. For instance when asked why she has written the name of a baby in her diary, she is saying 'because something notable happened.' I imagine the prosecution will ask exactly what was notable about it. When asked about why she searched for parents on Facebook, now she is saying 'because they were on my mind'. I imagine prosecution will ask why they were on her mind months later, and on Christmas Day even.

 

[ColourPurple]

I wasn’t surprised by that at all really. Not once have I seen anything to suggest she wasn’t forthcoming with the process or did not cooperate. Or indeed was acting like a guilty person with something to hide like getting rid of the evidence so to me it made sense that she will continue with that and take the stand.

We have no idea whether she's got rid of any evidence or not been forthcoming though or is "acting like a guilty person" would. We just know she didnt go for "No comment" answers or prepared statements.

In the trials I've followed, they've all taken the stand... and then been found guilty. It'll be intereting to see which way this one goes.

 

[Jazmania]

I haven’t seen anyone do a 180. People have been waiting for context around the fb searches and handover notes, despite them being ancillary to the main evidence, and so it’s nice to have some new information to discuss that isn’t simply discussing the words ‘on purpose’ for eternity.

For me, the key bit of information to come out of yesterday was the assertion from Letby that NG tubes are not routinely aspirated in the way it was suggested at the start of the case. I’m surprised that’s not being discussed more, since it’s been used to support several allegations that air must’ve been forced down the NG tubes. However, I do recognise that many people will have made up their minds now and are therefore less likely to want to discuss the specifics of the evidence, or might view these sorts of questions as people protesting Letby’s innocence. JMO.

Good point, I had forgotten about that. I think other doctors and nurses did testify that NG tubes were routinely aspirated. It will be interesting to see how much of an expert LL positions herself as in regards to medical explanations for things. I.e claiming babies suck in air when vomiting etc. If she does come across like she considers herself an expert, but is saying things that are opposite to other doctors, or more experienced nurses, then that won't look good for her imo.

 

[Noseyposy76]

I have not seen anyone on here who has categorically said they believe she is innocent

We're not allowed to comment on guilt or innocence due to sub judice rules, so anything like that would be swiftly deleted on here. But you might see increases in people who haven't followed the trial claiming there's no evidence, she's being scapegoated, or assuming that the facebook searches and handover notes are all the jury has to go on. When those who are following the trial in more detail, have "heard" over 6 months of evidence, including copious amounts of complex medical evidence from expert medical witnesses. And we are just seeing a fraction of what the jury are hearing.

JMO

ETA just to clarify that wasn't areferring to you or anybody else personally. Just a general observation, from reading commenst about the trial online.

It was implied by the OP on their previous post, she addressed those who feel LL is innocent. I don’t see anyone inferring she is innocent, I see plenty of questions being asked, but I see very many assuming guilt.

I am a long term loiterer and even though I have dipped in and out, I have followed press coverage. Just because I haven’t had the time to contribute to this thread and I have a different perspective, doesn’t mean what I say is invalid. That said, I have much respect to those who have continued with their contributions and have very much enjoyed reading them.

 

[ColourPurple]

I haven’t seen anyone do a 180. People have been waiting for context around the fb searches and handover notes, despite them being ancillary to the main evidence, and so it’s nice to have some new information to discuss that isn’t simply discussing the words ‘on purpose’ for eternity.

For me, the key bit of information to come out of yesterday was the assertion from Letby that NG tubes are not routinely aspirated in the way it was suggested at the start of the case. I’m surprised that’s not being discussed more, since it’s been used to support several allegations that air must’ve been forced down the NG tubes. However, I do recognise that many people will have made up their minds now and are therefore less likely to want to discuss the specifics of the evidence, or might view these sorts of questions as people protesting Letby’s innocence. JMO.

It seems a minor point, as none of the charges rely solely on that, but, if guilty, it's in her interests to say that now and Myers is hardly likely to challenge that . IMO.

 

[WaxLyrical]

Good point, I had forgotten about that. I think other doctors and nurses did testify that NG tubes were routinely aspirated. It will be interesting to see how much of an expert LL positions herself as in regards to medical explanations for things. I.e claiming babies suck in air when vomiting etc. If she does come across like she considers herself an expert, but is saying things that are opposite to other doctors, or more experienced nurses, then that won't look good for her imo.

I might be misremembering but I recall one of the experts, SB possibly, saying that staff at the COCH were notoriously bad at record keeping when it came to NG tubes. Which is not helpful if there turns out to be a dispute around how the nurses handle NG tubes. JMO.

 

[ColourPurple]

It was implied by the OP on their previous post, she addressed those who feel LL is innocent. I don’t see anyone inferring she is innocent, I see plenty of questions being asked, but I see very many assuming guilt.

I am a long term loiterer and even though I have dipped in and out, I have followed press coverage. Just because I haven’t had the time to contribute to this thread and I have a different perspective, doesn’t mean what I say is invalid. That said, I have much respect to those who have continued with their contributions and have very much enjoyed reading them.

I cant speak for the OP but I assumed they were talking about people discussing the trial online, in general, as we can't state anything about guilt either way here.

 

[WaxLyrical]

It seems a minor point, as none of the charges rely solely on that, but, if guilty, it's in her interests to say that now and Myers is hardly likely to challenge that . IMO.

Why is it a minor point? The strength of this case relies heavily on the sheer breadth of the charges. If Myers has someone waiting in the wings to show how failure to aspirate could result in what’s being described here as air being forced into the tummy, then it would be a bit of a blow to the case as a whole. IMO.

 

[Sweeper2000]

I think the prosecution will go over the same ground, but won't accept such vague answers. They'll grill her again and again to get specific answers and highlight any inconsistencies in what she is saying now compared to her police interviews. For instance when asked why she has written the name of a baby in her diary, she is saying 'because something notable happened.' I imagine the prosecution will ask exactly what was notable about it. When asked about why she searched for parents on Facebook, now she is saying 'because they were on my mind'. I imagine prosecution will ask why they were on her mind months later, and on Christmas Day even.

Christmas is no surprise really. I think some reflect on the years events, families, people met in the year etc its definitely a time of reflection and family for most. All of those things will bring back significant memories. New evidence to me was that one of the families she searched for months down the line was actually in contact with the unit after heading home, that to me gives a viable reason to recall that family and fb search them. checking for happy posts or updates on the babs condition etc.

I will stress the point that IMO she has acted totally oblivious to potential threats which she would be aware of if guilty. One glaring example is keeping handover notes that relate to babies she allegedly harmed and killed. These handover notes are alleged trophies but I’m quite confident the prosecution does not have evidence to suggest it.

 

[Dotta]

Why is it a minor point? The strength of this case relies heavily on the sheer breadth of the charges. If Myers has someone waiting in the wings to show how failure to aspirate could result in what’s being described here as air being forced into the tummy, then it would be a bit of a blow to the case as a whole. IMO.

But why wasn't it addressed by Defence when cases were discussed one by one?

 

[Parker Knoll]

I was referring to the many forums out there discussing this case if that wasn’t apparent then apologies !

 

[WaxLyrical]

I was referring to the many forums out there discussing this case if that wasn’t apparent then apologies !

Ahh I don’t really visit any other forums, I felt this was the most sensible one to follow for this trial I’ve heard the Facebook groups are nuts, but I got rid of Facebook over a decade ago.

I do look at the subreddit occasionally, and definitely yesterday there was a clear influx of people who’ve not been following. Looks like the sub numbers have pretty much doubled.

 

[Noseyposy76]

I was referring to the many forums out there discussing this case if that wasn’t apparent then apologies !

Oh I see, I haven’t actually ventured anywhere else with this case. I did so with missing NB earlier this year and regretted it. Apologies for misinterpreting your posts, especially as they are always so well put together.