UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #22

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@JosieJo @WaxLyrical . Here are LL's texts after Baby C's death (including the one about persuading them to have hand and foot prints done):

Text messages and Whatsapp messages sent to and from Letby's phone the morning after Child C died are shown to the court.

Letby messages a colleague: "Sorry I was just off [last night], was not a great start to shift but sadly it got worse."

The colleague responds: "You weren't off, you just were not happy and there is nothing I could say that was going to make it any better."

Letby: "I was struggling to accept what happened to [Child A], now we have lost [Child C] overnight and it's all a bit much."

The colleague replies: "It will be but it does happen to these babies unfortunately."

"It's a very sad part of our job."

The colleague recalls a baby who had previously died in the neonatal unit, but had "overwhelming sepsis" so "nothing would have saved that baby".

Letby: "[C] is the little 800g baby...went off very suddenly. I know it happens but it's so sudden..."

Messages are relayed detailing how nursing staff on the night were upset by what happened.

Letby's colleague messages: "This is where we have to pull together and look after each other."

Letby: "Think we support each other brilliantly...just such a shock especially after Monday."

Letby is advised to "switch off for a bit".

Letby messaged her mum that morning to say: "We lost a little one overnight. Very unexpected and sad xx"

Letby added, in the message to her mum: "He only weighted 800g...new girl was looking after him, she is devastated."

Letby's colleague, in a message to Letby, said: "Hoping you are going to ok, this is not like you. Sending the biggest hugs."

Letby, in her reply, says: "It's heartbreaking but it's not about me."

Letby's colleague, in her reply, says to use a 'northern phrase': "Chin up chuck we will get through it together."

Letby: "It's not about me or anybody else, it's those poor parents who have to walk away without their baby."

Letby messages another colleague asking when she is next work, before adding: "We lost little [Child C] overnight, everyone's devastated."

The colleague responds: "Damn. Infection? Crap week. How is [Child B]?"

Letby gives an update and says, for Child C, "it happened very quickly."

The colleague responds: "Damn. As quick as [Child A]? Yeah, s*** week."

Letby messaged the colleague: "Parents sat with [Child C] in the family room...persuaded them to have hand and footprints but they just wanted to go home."

The colleague responds: "That is so sad, don't know what to say."

Letby: "There are no words, it's been awful."

The colleague: "It's a really tough week, especially for you."

The conversation ends at 10.12am.

Letby searched for both the parents of Child C on Facebook later that day, at 3.32pm.

A conversation Letby has with a third colleague, later that day, is shown to the court.

Letby: "I don't really want to go in tonight."

The colleague responds: "I don't particularly but we will get each other through it."

Letby: "We are a good team and we will get through. You did so so well."

The colleague: "We all did - so lucky to work with such an amazing and supportive team."


Oh thank you! I didn’t see your post and went away looking for it myself. Facepalm.
 
@JosieJo @WaxLyrical . Here are LL's texts after Baby C's death (including the one about persuading them to have hand and foot prints done):

Text messages and Whatsapp messages sent to and from Letby's phone the morning after Child C died are shown to the court.

Letby messages a colleague: "Sorry I was just off [last night], was not a great start to shift but sadly it got worse."

The colleague responds: "You weren't off, you just were not happy and there is nothing I could say that was going to make it any better."

Letby: "I was struggling to accept what happened to [Child A], now we have lost [Child C] overnight and it's all a bit much."

The colleague replies: "It will be but it does happen to these babies unfortunately."

"It's a very sad part of our job."

The colleague recalls a baby who had previously died in the neonatal unit, but had "overwhelming sepsis" so "nothing would have saved that baby".

Letby: "[C] is the little 800g baby...went off very suddenly. I know it happens but it's so sudden..."

Messages are relayed detailing how nursing staff on the night were upset by what happened.

Letby's colleague messages: "This is where we have to pull together and look after each other."

Letby: "Think we support each other brilliantly...just such a shock especially after Monday."

Letby is advised to "switch off for a bit".

Letby messaged her mum that morning to say: "We lost a little one overnight. Very unexpected and sad xx"

Letby added, in the message to her mum: "He only weighted 800g...new girl was looking after him, she is devastated."

Letby's colleague, in a message to Letby, said: "Hoping you are going to ok, this is not like you. Sending the biggest hugs."

Letby, in her reply, says: "It's heartbreaking but it's not about me."

Letby's colleague, in her reply, says to use a 'northern phrase': "Chin up chuck we will get through it together."

Letby: "It's not about me or anybody else, it's those poor parents who have to walk away without their baby."

Letby messages another colleague asking when she is next work, before adding: "We lost little [Child C] overnight, everyone's devastated."

The colleague responds: "Damn. Infection? Crap week. How is [Child B]?"

Letby gives an update and says, for Child C, "it happened very quickly."

The colleague responds: "Damn. As quick as [Child A]? Yeah, s*** week."

Letby messaged the colleague: "Parents sat with [Child C] in the family room...persuaded them to have hand and footprints but they just wanted to go home."

The colleague responds: "That is so sad, don't know what to say."

Letby: "There are no words, it's been awful."

The colleague: "It's a really tough week, especially for you."

The conversation ends at 10.12am.

Letby searched for both the parents of Child C on Facebook later that day, at 3.32pm.

A conversation Letby has with a third colleague, later that day, is shown to the court.

Letby: "I don't really want to go in tonight."

The colleague responds: "I don't particularly but we will get each other through it."

Letby: "We are a good team and we will get through. You did so so well."

The colleague: "We all did - so lucky to work with such an amazing and supportive team."


I really do wonder what JJK makes of all this now. JJK seemed to be dropping hints that she was making the babies death about her and LL was sensitive to this, a couple of times volunteering 'its not about me... It's those poor parents'
 
I have a question.

Is she going to be given a break in cross e. any time the pressure gets high?

It might mean endless stops as I don't see Prosecution relenting - quite the contrary.

I'm really amazed she cracked only after 2 days of cross examination. Prosecution was only warming up - judging by "We'll be coming back to it".

In that case I don't think July is the realistic date for the trial to end.

JMO
 
She orchestrated a very long break yesterday with her asking for a “break “ just before an early lunch and an already scheduled court break then not coming back up for the afternoon as planned. She kept the jury over 2 hours only to be released eventually by the trial judge. I suspect behind the scenes all is not well with Letby but that is just a guess on my part. She will have had 4 days to stew in her cell until Wednesday - I couldn’t second guess what’s going to happen next week tbh Dotta.
She may refuse to continue to give evidence and that’s a whole new legal can of worms opened.
 
Are we 100% certain the break in expected sequence was due to herself?
I know the judge said it shouldn’t concern people but don’t know what that means.
 
Are we 100% certain the break in expected sequence was due to herself?
I know the judge said it shouldn’t concern people but don’t know what that means.

It's all speculative. It could be someone has had some personal news or anything. It was just an 'interesting' sequence of events is all. All opinions.
 
It's all speculative. It could be someone has had some personal news or anything. It was just an 'interesting' sequence of events is all. All opinions.
Umm....
I think the Judge was veeeery diplomatic about the reason for the "break".

Didn't all Court sketches from cross e. show her tearful and on the brink of "mental breakdown"?

It's interesting b/c when Defence questioned her earlier she sounded sooo confident and sure of herself :rolleyes:

JMO
 
Something else interesting, but wondering, how long was she working at COCH?

Because it seems from her story about the deaths at Women's---those were the only deaths of her babies she had experienced. So if she had been working a few years at COCH, with no deaths of babies she was caring for---wasn't it quite unusual, in her mind, to be losing babies, on back to back nights, so suddenly and so routinely?

It makes me curious about why she was so able to accept it as somewhat normal, as she wrote it off as fate and said all she could do is accept it and move on.
100 percent this. I think she actually lied in court about how experienced she was in coping with death. She said she had experienced a couple at Chester and more in LW.
This doesn't make sense. If there were deaths in the preceding years at CoC, what are the chances she would be involved in the bereavement process? Or be the nurse on shift?
I think it's likely that there were two other unexplained deaths on the NNU in the same time period as the charges but there was insufficient evidence to charge LL.
That would be in keeping with the independent report that there were 10 unexplained deaths.
It would also explain where LL got her 'bereavement practice' at the Coc and would align with the weird statement that a colleague made about LL being on an 'unlucky run'
(Right after child A.)
I don't think child A was the first but I don't think there were 13, 15, 17 deaths on CoC NNU either as some people have said.
 
Are we 100% certain the break in expected sequence was due to herself?
I know the judge said it shouldn’t concern people but don’t know what that means.
Nobody knows. We know she was the reason for the lunch break starting early as she asked for a break. As for whether she's also the reason the trial was adjourned and never restarted after lunch... well it could just be a coincidence. There's a lot of them in this case, allegedly.

JMO
 
Nobody knows. We know she was the reason for the lunch break starting early as she asked for a break. As for whether she's also the reason the trial was adjourned and never restarted after lunch... well it could just be a coincidence. There's a lot of them in this case, allegedly.

JMO
What a coincidence that it might be ANOTHER coincidence!

Oh well...

JMO
 
Are we 100% certain the break in expected sequence was due to herself?
I know the judge said it shouldn’t concern people but don’t know what that means.
Well, she asked for an early break....then she never was seen back on the witness stand. I think if it was a sick juror the judge would have said the jury had an emergency....but who knows?
 
I think so? But if I remember right the baby died around 5:30, and if footprints etc were taken prior to that, it doesn’t feel like it’s too close to end of shift, 7:30am?

It was originally reported that she sent a message to to Minna saying something like she “persuaded” the parents to have the prints done, and they just wanted to go home. I’ll try and dig it out.

Edit: found it, it just says colleague so no idea where I got Minna from.

Letby messaged the colleague: "Parents sat with [Child C] in the family room...persuaded them to have hand and footprints but they just wanted to go home."

I'm currently engaged in reading the 'no discussion' thread right from the start. I'm currently on Baby C, and have read the agreed summaries of the parents' police statements. They describe being left alone with the baby while the wait went on for the priest to arrive. They say that there were two nurses who would look in on them from time to time to check how they were; one of which was LL. The father describes, in neutral tones, how hand and footprints were taken 'along with toys that were cotside'. He mentions one of the nurses coming in and asking the 'do you want me to put him in the basket' question; which he says he and his wife were shocked by, and so the nurse backtracked.

The mother doesn't seem to have included this in her police statement, as far as I can tell. The mother mentions being given a lock of the baby's hair.

(as an aside I will mention that other nurses, whose trial testimony I've read so far, have had a lot of 'I don't recall where I was/what I was doing/who did what' moments. As well as giving accounts differing from their police statements. Especially Nurse Taylor. All completely expected and understandable in my opinion. This isn't a factor that only affects the Defendant. My opinion only.
 
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I will be blunt.

I think allowing the defendant to disrupt the cross examination to (allegedly) get her story straight is counterproductive to the very idea of such cross.

If, of course, she is the reason for the break.

JMO
 
Little more detail about baby C texts

To her colleague Jennifer Jones-Key, she said: "Sorry if I was off, just wasn't a great start to the shift but sadly it got worse.

"I was struggling to accept what happened to (Child A). Now we've lost (Child C) overnight and it's all a bit much.

"I just keep seeing them both.

"No one should have to see and do the things we do - it's heart-breaking."

'We lost a little one overnight'

She added: "It's not about me or anyone else - it's those poor parents who have to walk away without their baby. It's so unbelievably sad."

Letby also messaged her mother Susan and said: "We lost a little one overnight - very unexpected and sad."

She said the baby only weighed 800g and was being looked after by "new girl" Sophie Ellis, who was "devastated".

Letby's mother had replied: "We are so proud of you, love you."

'It has been awful'

Letby also messaged Ms Ellis and told her: "We are a good team and we'll get through. You did so, so well."

 
Either way, I bet Johnson won't hint at what's coming up next, again.
It’s a shame he’s going alphabetically through the poor babies as someone else mentioned about mixing them up earlier in thread.

I’d’ve liked him to mix them up, after all she says herself she has a good memory… jmo

I do get though that it would be a faff for accessing documentation quickly.
 
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