VERDICT WATCH UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #29

[Elgana]

You have my sympathy too. We had a bust-up last week. For ideas on dealing with it, I can recommend a YouTube video entitled. "Dealing with a coward spouse and the narcissistic in-law."

Thank you, I'll take a look at that!

Fingers crossed for a verdict today.

 

[Jw192]

How many hours are we on now?

 

[ColourPurple]

Yes.

Instead of saying to parents, take all of the time you need to cuddle your baby. Stay as long as you wish and need. Here are blankets, pillows, tea...
Instead she says to the parents, Okay, you've said your good-byes. Would you like to put him into this basket?

The absolute ice coldness...

Re taking all the time you need. I know that was Baby C but I've wondered the same about Baby A . I guess you could argue that Baby A's dad's reaction would have been the same whenever they took Baby A to the mortuary but I've always wondered why, when he was crying on the floor begging them not to take him away, why somebody didn't ask if he needed more time with him.

The hospital had a cool cot for babies who had passed away and I've heard of parents taking their deceased babies home overnight in those to spend time with them so why did Baby A have to be taken away that shift while dad was obviously not ready? LL does refer to "we" when talking about taking Baby A to the mortuary so presumably it wasn't just her alone who took Baby A to the mortuary but I've always pondered why they didn't just give Baby A's parents more time.

"I said to (another nurse) that I can't look after (Child B) because I just don't know how I'm going to feel seeing parents.

"Dad was on the floor crying saying 'please don't take our baby away' when we took him to the mortuary. It's just heart-breaking.

"It's the hardest thing I've ever had to do. Hopefully have a more positive one tonight."

Hours later Child B collapsed while Letby was on duty, before the youngster later stabilised and was eventually discharged the following month, the court was told.

Nurse accused of baby murders said taking body to mortuary was 'hardest thing'

Lucy Letby, 32 - who is charged with murdering multiple babies - messaged a colleague to say taking the body of a newborn boy to the mortuary was the most difficult thing she'd ever done

www.mirror.co.uk

 

[marynnu]

How many hours are we on now?

About 50.

 

[Tortoise]

How many hours are we on now?

40h 20m at end of day Friday - if we exclude lunch hours and breaks.

 

[Penny68]

Re taking all the time you need. I know that was Baby C but I've wondered the same about Baby A . I guess you could argue that Baby A's dad's reaction would have been the same whenever they took Baby A to the mortuary but I've always wondered why, when he was crying on the floor begging them not to take him away, why somebody didn't ask if he needed more time with him.

The hospital had a cool cot for babies who had passed away and I've heard of parents taking their deceased babies home overnight in those to spend time with them so why did Baby A have to be taken away that shift while dad was obviously not ready? LL does refer to "we" when talking about taking Baby A to the mortuary so presumably it wasn't just her alone who took Baby A to the mortuary but I've always pondered why they didn't just give Baby A's parents more time.

"I said to (another nurse) that I can't look after (Child B) because I just don't know how I'm going to feel seeing parents.

"Dad was on the floor crying saying 'please don't take our baby away' when we took him to the mortuary. It's just heart-breaking.

"It's the hardest thing I've ever had to do. Hopefully have a more positive one tonight."

Hours later Child B collapsed while Letby was on duty, before the youngster later stabilised and was eventually discharged the following month, the court was told.

Nurse accused of baby murders said taking body to mortuary was 'hardest thing'

Lucy Letby, 32 - who is charged with murdering multiple babies - messaged a colleague to say taking the body of a newborn boy to the mortuary was the most difficult thing she'd ever done

www.mirror.co.uk

I can recall LL's famous saying, a lot, was 'we', although there was not a 'we', there was just solely 'her'

 

[marynnu]

Re taking all the time you need. I know that was Baby C but I've wondered the same about Baby A . I guess you could argue that Baby A's dad's reaction would have been the same whenever they took Baby A to the mortuary but I've always wondered why, when he was crying on the floor begging them not to take him away, why somebody didn't ask if he needed more time with him.

The hospital had a cool cot for babies who had passed away and I've heard of parents taking their deceased babies home overnight in those to spend time with them so why did Baby A have to be taken away that shift while dad was obviously not ready? LL does refer to "we" when talking about taking Baby A to the mortuary so presumably it wasn't just her alone who took Baby A to the mortuary but I've always pondered why they didn't just give Baby A's parents more time.

"I said to (another nurse) that I can't look after (Child B) because I just don't know how I'm going to feel seeing parents.

"Dad was on the floor crying saying 'please don't take our baby away' when we took him to the mortuary. It's just heart-breaking.

"It's the hardest thing I've ever had to do. Hopefully have a more positive one tonight."

Hours later Child B collapsed while Letby was on duty, before the youngster later stabilised and was eventually discharged the following month, the court was told.

Nurse accused of baby murders said taking body to mortuary was 'hardest thing'

Lucy Letby, 32 - who is charged with murdering multiple babies - messaged a colleague to say taking the body of a newborn boy to the mortuary was the most difficult thing she'd ever done

www.mirror.co.uk

This is a very good point. I can't imagine doing this, ever. To be honest, I do question if it's even true.

 

[iamshadow21]

This is a very good point. I can't imagine doing this, ever. To be honest, I do question if it's even true.

It is a pretty strong contrast to everything else we've heard about postmortem care, how it should be done - parents room, bathing and photos, cold cot for longer time together.

EDIT: Heck, it's in contrast to every vet I've ever had to go to for end of life care for a PET. (And my pets are my kids, I don't have biological offspring of my own, so I'm not devaluing them one bit. But a lot of people don't rank them the same as humans where grief is concerned.)

MOO

 

[Tortoise]

This is from the father's statement for baby A -

"The parents were told resuscitative attempts had failed.
"Neither one of us wanted to say stop.
"[The mum] was hysterical.
"I said something along the lines of 'you have to let him go, he's not there any more, you have to let him go'.
"She nodded her head and that gave permission.
"One thing that upsets us both is we never had the chance to hold [Child A] when he was alive.
"We were told he was doing fine, breathing by himself, and doing well."

12:20pm

While the mum rested, the father stayed with other family members and Child B.
The father said Child A was brought to them by Lucy Letby, prior to the child's transfer to Alder Hey for a post-mortem examination.
Upon their return, they were asked if they wanted to hold Child B. The father said he was too scared to, because of Child B's tiny size, and the child needed to be kept in an incubator or her body temperature would drop."

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Monday, October 17

 

[marynnu]

It is a pretty strong contrast to everything else we've heard about postmortem care, how it should be done - parents room, bathing and photos, cold cot for longer time together.

EDIT: Heck, it's in contrast to every vet I've ever had to go to for end of life care for a PET. (And my pets are my kids, I don't have biological offspring of my own, so I'm not devaluing them one bit. But a lot of people don't rank them the same as humans where grief is concerned.)

MOO

True. I've supported a lot of parents over the years, and not once was the baby removed from them. We always waited until they were ready, and took the baby to the mortuary after they left the unit.

 

[Dotta]

Re taking all the time you need. I know that was Baby C but I've wondered the same about Baby A . I guess you could argue that Baby A's dad's reaction would have been the same whenever they took Baby A to the mortuary but I've always wondered why, when he was crying on the floor begging them not to take him away, why somebody didn't ask if he needed more time with him.

The hospital had a cool cot for babies who had passed away and I've heard of parents taking their deceased babies home overnight in those to spend time with them so why did Baby A have to be taken away that shift while dad was obviously not ready? LL does refer to "we" when talking about taking Baby A to the mortuary so presumably it wasn't just her alone who took Baby A to the mortuary but I've always pondered why they didn't just give Baby A's parents more time.

"I said to (another nurse) that I can't look after (Child B) because I just don't know how I'm going to feel seeing parents.

"Dad was on the floor crying saying 'please don't take our baby away' when we took him to the mortuary. It's just heart-breaking.

"It's the hardest thing I've ever had to do. Hopefully have a more positive one tonight."

Hours later Child B collapsed while Letby was on duty, before the youngster later stabilised and was eventually discharged the following month, the court was told.

Nurse accused of baby murders said taking body to mortuary was 'hardest thing'

Lucy Letby, 32 - who is charged with murdering multiple babies - messaged a colleague to say taking the body of a newborn boy to the mortuary was the most difficult thing she'd ever done

www.mirror.co.uk

Only people with empathy and good heart make the difference.

Without them, a hospital with even the most sophisticated equipment is just a cold place.

That is why I consider a medical/healthcare profession as a vocation.

JMO

 

[WaxLyrical]

Do nurses typically take bodies to the mortuary?

 

[ColourPurple]

While the mum rested, the father stayed with other family members and Child B.
The father said Child A was brought to them by Lucy Letby, prior to the child's transfer to Alder Hey for a post-mortem examination.
Upon their return, they were asked if they wanted to hold Child B. The father said he was too scared to, because of Child B's tiny size, and the child needed to be kept in an incubator or her body temperature would drop."

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Monday, October 17

Ah maybe the post mortem was a factor. I found this from another hospital regarding bereaved parents taking their baby home:

PLEASE NOTE: Whilst the Hospital Pathologist understands the importance of supporting the bereavement needs of the family, they are unable to endorse this guideline where a Hospital Post Mortem is being requested and recommend constant mortuary refrigeration is maintained. As part of the conversation with families and the consent process for a Hospital Post Mortem it must be emphasised that the Pathologist reserves the right to refuse on each individual case to carry out a Post Mortem should they
consider, on the return of the body to the hospital, that the lack of constant mortuary refrigeration will detrimentally affect the outcome.
i.e., If the family chose to take their child home, a Hospital Post Mortem may not be possible.

http://www.library.leicestershospitals.nhs.uk/PAGL/Shared%20Documents/Taking%20a%20Deceased%20Child%20or%20Infant%20Home%20(where%20registerable%20birth)%20UHL%20Childrens%20Policy.pdf

 

[WaxLyrical]

Ah maybe the post mortem was a factor. I found this from another hospital regarding bereaved parents taking their baby home:

PLEASE NOTE: Whilst the Hospital Pathologist understands the importance of supporting the bereavement needs of the family, they are unable to endorse this guideline where a Hospital Post Mortem is being requested and recommend constant mortuary refrigeration is maintained. As part of the conversation with families and the consent process for a Hospital Post Mortem it must be emphasised that the Pathologist reserves the right to refuse on each individual case to carry out a Post Mortem should they
consider, on the return of the body to the hospital, that the lack of constant mortuary refrigeration will detrimentally affect the outcome.
i.e., If the family chose to take their child home, a Hospital Post Mortem may not be possible.

http://www.library.leicestershospitals.nhs.uk/PAGL/Shared%20Documents/Taking%20a%20Deceased%20Child%20or%20Infant%20Home%20(where%20registerable%20birth)%20UHL%20Childrens%20Policy.pdf

This was always my instinct with the basket comment. That it was an awkward way of articulating that there was some level of pressure to get the child into a cold cot.

 

[iamshadow21]

Ah maybe the post mortem was a factor. I found this from another hospital regarding bereaved parents taking their baby home:

PLEASE NOTE: Whilst the Hospital Pathologist understands the importance of supporting the bereavement needs of the family, they are unable to endorse this guideline where a Hospital Post Mortem is being requested and recommend constant mortuary refrigeration is maintained. As part of the conversation with families and the consent process for a Hospital Post Mortem it must be emphasised that the Pathologist reserves the right to refuse on each individual case to carry out a Post Mortem should they
consider, on the return of the body to the hospital, that the lack of constant mortuary refrigeration will detrimentally affect the outcome.
i.e., If the family chose to take their child home, a Hospital Post Mortem may not be possible.

http://www.library.leicestershospitals.nhs.uk/PAGL/Shared%20Documents/Taking%20a%20Deceased%20Child%20or%20Infant%20Home%20(where%20registerable%20birth)%20UHL%20Childrens%20Policy.pdf

But other babies in this case had time with the parents postmortem, and also were autopsied.

MOO

 

[ColourPurple]

This was always my instinct with the basket comment. That it was an awkward way of articulating that there was some level of pressure to get the child into a cold cot.

Baby C was still alive at the point that LL tried to move him to a cold cot though.

 

[WaxLyrical]

Baby C was still alive at the point that LL tried to move him to a cold cot though.

Yes but it was exceptionally unusual, and apparently unprecedented, that he was still alive and that a number of hours had passed since resuscitation efforts stopped. It’s possible the nurse who said this (assume it’s been confirmed it was Letby?) did not realise the baby still had signs of life, and “normal process” was cold cot after X amount of time.

Just speculating.

 

[Sweeper2000]

Baby C was still alive at the point that LL tried to move him to a cold cot though.

I think some might call that a grey area. Showing signs of life is different from being alive. Jmo.

 

[marynnu]

Do nurses typically take bodies to the mortuary?

I've only ever known porters do this, but it's possible that CoC had a different policy for neonates.

 

[ColourPurple]

But other babies in this case had time with the parents postmortem, and also were autopsied.

MOO

TBF I've found a few articles where parents took their babies home in cold cot and the babies also had post mortems so it is possible, but don't want to link them on this thread for obvious reasons.