UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #4

[cuecard]

12:23pm

It was 'shortly after shift change-over' at 8pm when the parents returned to the neonatal unit and had had very little sleep. The other family members had left the unit for rest.
This was the first time since that none of the family members were by Child B.
It was shortly afterwards when a nurse came in to say: "You need to come now"
The father said: "I didn't know what to think. My heart sank."
They found Child B had stabilised, after the oxygen saturation levels had fallen sharply.
The father had said the consulatant nurse had given a 'crossed-fingers' to the nurse on duty when she left, as a 'good luck - I hope the child survives]'.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Monday, October 17

The trial of Lucy Letby, accused of murdering seven babies and attempting to murder 10 more at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit,…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

So, after losing Child A, family members stayed beside Child B all the time except for this one small break and it is just as they take a break that the baby B gets into difficulty? Did I understand that correctly?

So difficult to read these heartbreaking stories of loss and pain.

Yes, that's how it reads to me as well. It sounds like the baby got into difficulty while they took a short break and the nurse came to collect them to return to Child B.

 

[Marantz4250b]

Nothing incriminating today, then.

Nope. I'm not entirely sure why all this background info is actually needed. Presumably the prosecution have their easons though.

 

[notsure]

Nope. I'm not entirely sure why all this background info is actually needed. Presumably the prosecution have their easons though.

I hope so. Otherwise, I can't see why they are not also giving details of all the other nurses' comings and goings, texts, social media activity, etc. To take LL's details in isolation doesn't give a true picture, surely. Just my thought as an ignorant lay person.

 

[OceanElix]

I wonder what the reasons were for not entering the notes in a timely manner and having to do it retrospectively.

 

[Marantz4250b]

I wonder what the reasons were for not entering the notes in a timely manner and having to do it retrospectively.

It's probably standard practice if it's busy.

 

[squish]

Nothing incriminating today, then.

Except that the mum wanted Baby B supervised by relatives at all times after Baby A died, and as soon as those relatives left, Baby B collapsed.

 

[merrypason]

I hope so. Otherwise, I can't see why they are not also giving details of all the other nurses' comings and goings, texts, social media activity, etc. To take LL's details in isolation doesn't give a true picture, surely. Just my thought as an ignorant lay person.

Because the children died after she had last contact with them, and after investigating the case, they only found her behaviour suspicious. That's why she's the only one on trial. The defence have had a look at all the evidence as well. If they thought the other medical staff's behaviour was suspicious, they would have flagged it to prosecution at some point before trial or they will prepare a defence accordingly. And they might - we don't know what the defence's case is.

It's like if your colleague attacked someone at work, the prosecution wouldn't be detailing the comings and goings of all 50 people in your office at trial. Can you imagine your life being under the microscope at a trial, documented publicly, just because you happened to be in the vicinity of a crime or knew the suspect/victim? The investigation happens to rule out other people and hone in on a suspect, the trial is to show evidence of why that suspect is deemed guilty. They won't replay the entire investigation in detail at the trial - only the bits relevant to how the defendant's behaviour led to the crime.

The whereabouts of LL however is definitely important, because it shows the timeline of how her actions led to this situation.

 

[Charlot123]

I've been thinking about the note. The police have obviously had it since the house searches in, what, 2018? Now, I speculated on previous threads on the significance of the shear length of time taken for the investigation and charging decisions. I suspect the defence team would have tried very hard to keep that out of evidence, and predictably so, that may explain the days worth of unreportable legal argument in the first week of trial. It may be that the years since have been taken with beefing up the rest of the case so that it could withstand losing that piece of evidence. What you think of that may depend on how you view the note itself. If you're not convinced that it represents a reliable confession then that would only accentuate the potential for confirmation bias. They came to the conclusion that she was a serial killer long ago and the medical evidence is tailored to provide a narrative of how that could have happened that is consistent with the recorded facts.

Good question. The note is not organized at all, so could be anything. Just my very personal opinion.

God knows what people write.

I do believe that intuition exists. Twice in my life I had this inexplicable feeling, and both times it appeared right. But it is one thing to have intuitive feeling, and another, to get the proof, the data, the documents, and accuse. Evidence rules. And even intuition is not exactly the sixth sense, but subconscious processing of some information.

I guess that makes sense in that, it’s probably very easy to end up in trouble when it comes to being a healthcare professional. It’s never a black and white situation, sometimes human error does occur etc but these are neonates. Teeny tiny babies, the most vulnerable. Obviously I know security in general with babies in hospitals is tight (when I had my son in QEH in woolwich there was security guards 24/7 on the doors of the wards!) but I can’t help feeling, nicu is a place that would benefit more than most wards with cctv.

This is what I think. As long as it is not a concealed camera, it should be OK. And the hospital should have installed them.

Otherwise, I am torn between intentional malice and negligence. For example, LL was 30, probably, interested in dating. Not paying attention to the kid and texting someone found on a dating site could be serious negligence, yet not intentional harmful behavior.

So far, no evidence but that note that is subject to different interpretations.

JMO.

 

[Charlot123]

Except that the mum wanted Baby B supervised by relatives at all times after Baby A died, and as soon as those relatives left, Baby B collapsed.

Imagine 5 nurses taking care of one preemie instead of one. Of course the baby would be better, right?
These relatives were probably not just sitting and looking at him. They were monitoring everything, even the nurses were probably paying more attention to the kid. (Compare the job done by a carpet cleaning company when you are at home as opposed to no one watching them).
Then they left, and it all went back to the unit standard care.
Could that be enough?

 

[merrypason]

This is what I think. As long as it is not a concealed camera, it should be OK. And the hospital should have installed them.

The RCPHC report mentioned that in 2016 the hospital had wanted to put in CCTV but the nurses were not happy as they thought it conveyed lack of trust in them. I imagine their union would have backed them. The NHS is public sector and patient privacy and medical staff privacy is paramount. It's difficult to put in cameras or tags to monitor or track employees even in retail stores with strong unions in the UK.

 

[yellowxo]

The RCPHC report mentioned that in 2016 the hospital had wanted to put in CCTV but the nurses were not happy as they thought it conveyed lack of trust in them. I imagine their union would have backed them. The NHS is public sector and patient privacy and medical staff privacy is paramount. It's difficult to put in cameras or tags to monitor or track employees even in retail stores with strong unions in the UK.

I have cameras in my nursing work place and it saved my bacon when I was wrongly accused of something. They should be everywhere they can be , if you have nothing to hide it's fine. Cameras make me feel safe.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Imagine 5 nurses taking care of one preemie instead of one. Of course the baby would be better, right?
These relatives were probably not just sitting and looking at him. They were monitoring everything, even the nurses were probably paying more attention to the kid. (Compare the job done by a carpet cleaning company when you are at home as opposed to no one watching them).
Then they left, and it all went back to the unit standard care.
Could that be enough?

Also there's a spiritual and vibrational energy aspect

 

[Tortoise]

Nope. I'm not entirely sure why all this background info is actually needed. Presumably the prosecution have their easons though.

IMO it's laying foundation, and it's also giving LL a fair trial. It wouldn't be fair to portray only select parts of her shift.

 

[Charlot123]

The RCPHC report mentioned that in 2016 the hospital had wanted to put in CCTV but the nurses were not happy as they thought it conveyed lack of trust in them. I imagine their union would have backed them. The NHS is public sector and patient privacy and medical staff privacy is paramount. It's difficult to put in cameras or tags to monitor or track employees even in retail stores with strong unions in the UK.

Well, now, after this case, it might be easier.

 

[Parker Knoll]

Harrowing today. It really hammers home the ripple effects of these cases. The poor grandparents rushing to hospital to be with their daughter and her husband and new born twins. Feeling like she’s going to have a heart attack. Dear god.

 

[gc105]

Working today so unable to provide updates, will dip in throughout the day.

 

[catgreen]

It's probably standard practice if it's busy.

I worked as a nurse for 24 years, and 14 of those years were in critical care settings - my records were always completed at the time (ie immediately after care/an event), even if that meant (frequently) staying after a shift to complete them. I would say that was usual/ expected legal practice for us all and to complete retrospectively would be highly unusual

 

[Marantz4250b]

I worked as a nurse for 24 years, and 14 of those years were in critical care settings - my records were always completed at the time (ie immediately after care/an event), even if that meant (frequently) staying after a shift to complete them. I would say that was usual/ expected legal practice for us all and to complete retrospectively would be highly unusual

By "retrospectively" don't they just mean at the end of her shift, though?

 

[Music2022]

I think maybe the background of the shift was brought up to show it was quite a normal shift and the babies were stable. Uneventful even, so much that one of the nurses said to give her a kick if she starts nodding off to sleep. Possibly to highlight how unexpected the collapse was.

 

[Marantz4250b]

Good question. The note is not organized at all, so could be anything. Just my very personal opinion.

God knows what people write.

I do believe that intuition exists. Twice in my life I had this inexplicable feeling, and both times it appeared right. But it is one thing to have intuitive feeling, and another, to get the proof, the data, the documents, and accuse. Evidence rules. And even intuition is not exactly the sixth sense, but subconscious processing of some information.


This is what I think. As long as it is not a concealed camera, it should be OK. And the hospital should have installed them.

Otherwise, I am torn between intentional malice and negligence. For example, LL was 30, probably, interested in dating. Not paying attention to the kid and texting someone found on a dating site could be serious negligence, yet not intentional harmful behavior.

So far, no evidence but that note that is subject to different interpretations.

JMO.

She was 25 at the time of the first alleged offences. She's only 32 now. I don't see that speculating about her messaging people from dating sites is helpful, to be honest.