GUILTY UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, murder of babies, 7 Guilty of murder verdicts; 7 Guilty of attempted murder; 2 Not Guilty of attempted; 6 hung re attempted #31

[May72031]

Ms Artell says she and her husband were discussing how their premature son was making good progress on the unit when the couple noticed Letby eavesdropping on their conversation.

She says, out of the blue, Letby told them: "I don't like parents getting their hopes up because we never know what could happen at this stage."

That^^^^ statement by Nurse Letby is terrifying.

It is incredibly sinister. Almost like a line out of a bad American TV movie.

 

[Marantz4250b]

The fact that is not a requirement for them to appear suggests that it is not considered to be part of the legal process. Personally, if someone killed one of my loved ones, I would not want to look at them.

It is most certainly part of the legal process - sub-judice rules still apply until after the sentencing.

 

[grj373]

The exact same measures that stop them disrupting the trial in the first place, court security etc.

Well not really, if they are disruptive during trial there are consequences and the trial can be delayed, defendant removed etc.

 

[MachinaCollecta]

Feeling weirdly empty tonight now that the trial - at least the verdicts part of it - is over. Anyone else feeling a bit strange and unaware of how to process it?

 

[Marantz4250b]

What would then stop the convicted defendent disrupting proceedings. We would have scenarios where they would have to be muzzled etc

What's to stop them doing anything? We cannot have a situation where murderers dictate the process.

And, yeah, if they disrupt then muzzle them!

 

[Legal]

From the Daily Mail article I posted above:

Letby, whose duvet bore the childlike motif 'Sweet Dreams', came to court most days with a comfort blanket and clutched a small, stress toy in her hands while in the witness box.

A comfort blanket? She's 32/33 years old! I wonder if she was completely infantilised by her parents and took out her resentment on the babies. It's such a sinister combination of child killer and Disney. JMO.

 

[May72031]

It is incredibly sinister. Almost like a line out of a bad American TV movie.

And that reminds me of the time when one of the consultants (can't remember which one) walked past a "smiling" Lucy Letby, while he was raising concerns about her.

Anybody recall this particular incident?

 

[notsure]

Yes, that’s an excellent point, they don’t hear the sentencing remarks that the judge often directs at them either, and they should have to sit through that on principle really.


As I said, she could get a loss of privileges / delay in earning them in prison.

We are going to have to disagree on this one. It isn’t good IMO for the integrity of process that a defendant can decide simply not to turn up and not hear their sentence or the judge’s comments. They shouldn’t have the right not to show up.

I see your point. I don't necessarily disagree with you - just putting a different point of view. The whole legal/courtroom process is so strange to the lay person (me), and it's difficult to understand all the reasons behind the different rules and regulations.

 

[MachinaCollecta]

From the Daily Mail article I posted above:

Letby, whose duvet bore the childlike motif 'Sweet Dreams', came to court most days with a comfort blanket and clutched a small, stress toy in her hands while in the witness box.

A comfort blanket? She's 32/33 years old! I wonder if she was completely infantilised by her parents and took out her resentment on the babies. It's such a sinister combination of child killer and Disney. JMO.

I believe some of it was an attempt to make her look childlike and innocent, JMO

 

[crowmarsh]

I don’t feel sorry for a criminal’s parents unless they give me reason to do so. Where the parents express horror and sorrow for their children’s crimes, I do feel bad for them. If they seek to deny their obvious guilt, to blame others or “the system” or to minimise the crimes, then no, I don’t. I have seen more than one murderer with indulgent parents who thought their offspring could do no wrong.

I do think you need to give them some time to come to terms with what has happened today I think it a bit unrealistic to expect them to start apologising for the crimes of their daughter shortly after the verdict but once they have reflected on events maybe we could expect a different response from them

 

[gc105]

Lots of information in here about the timeline of her suspension etc.

Doctor says hospital bosses failed to act on concerns over Lucy Letby

Dr Ravi Jayaram, senior paediatrician at the Countess of Chester Hospital, said he warned NHS managers that Letby was a potential danger to babies months before police were called.

www.dailymail.co.uk

It emerged during legal argument in the trial - in the absence of the jury - that the grievance procedure was resolved in Letby's favour in December 2016.

Letby was due to return to the neonatal unit in March 2017, but the move did not take place as soon afterwards, police were contacted by the hospital trust.

She was suspended on full pay from the moment she was arrested in July 2018.

It is understood she was sacked when she was charged in November 2020.

She was due to return to the neonatal unit in March 2017?!!!

The information and timelines now coming out are absolutely shocking!!!! Consultants being ignored, action not being taken, doctors being forced to apologist, not contacting police in order to protect & preserve the hospitals name/image, almost reinstating her into her post!!!! I am ANGRY beyond belief, those families & those babies were failed - not only by LL, but by those who should have been preserving safety above all else, instead they cared more about the hospital image.

 

[JerseyGirl]

Lucy Letby verdict live: Victims' parents say justice won't take away 'extreme hurt and anger'

The parents of Lucy Letby’s victims have said seeing justice done will never take away their deep feelings of “extreme hurt, anger and distress”.

www.telegraph.co.uk

 

[Rusty Braincells]

Well not really, if they are disruptive during trial there are consequences and the trial can be delayed, defendant removed etc.

Well, court security keep defendants in line. The defendant could deliberately be very disruptive and removed, sure, but then they should get extra time or if a whole life sentence, as I say, delayed TV in their cell / whatever else is a punishment behind bars.

If we are basing what we do on “the defendant might behave really badly and what could we do then?”, I personally don’t find that the best argument to not make convicted killers face some of the consequences of their actions.

The assumption is that a compelled defendant might then behave badly and that’s an issue. I don’t agree that’s really the issue. It’s a fact that defendants don’t have to appear, so some choose not to. That should be removed for all convicted criminals. It doesn’t follow that convicted defendants would be then be kicking off in the dock on the regular. Their choice would go. Some would behave badly. Most would no doubt say nothing.

 

[Rusty Braincells]

I do think you need to give them some time to come to terms with what has happened today I think it a bit unrealistic to expect them to start apologising for the crimes of their daughter shortly after the verdict but once they have reflected on events maybe we could expect a different response from them

Letby’s mother made a deeply inappropriate outburst in court. I do not feel sorry for her. My comment was to say that should I ever feel sorry for her, she will need to show some recognition of what her daughter has done. I don’t necessarily expect her to apologise right now; I don’t think she’s that kind of person anyway. But she doesn’t get my sympathy now, in that case.

 

[notsure]

What's to stop them doing anything? We cannot have a situation where murderers dictate the process.

And, yeah, if they disrupt then muzzle them!

Like Charles Cullen, another killer nurse, who was gagged by the court.

 

[JoeFromLB]

We may never find out the real motives of this mass murderer of babies. It may be that she's just plain evil, a monster. I'm glad that she will be put away forever, without chance of parole.

 

[MachinaCollecta]

We may never find out the real motives of this mass murderer of babies. It may be that she's just plain evil, a monster. I'm glad that she will be put away forever, without chance of parole.

We don’t know that as yet, sentencing isn’t till Monday. But it’s extremely likely.

 

[notsure]

Letby’s mother made a deeply inappropriate outburst in court. I do not feel sorry for her. My comment was to say that should I ever feel sorry for her, she will need to show some recognition of what her daughter has done. I don’t necessarily expect her to apologise right now; I don’t think she’s that kind of person anyway. But she doesn’t get my sympathy now, in that case.

It's interesting to ponder on how long parents are responsible for their child's behaviour. If you bring them up "normally," it seems unfair that you would be held responsible for their actions as autonomous adults.

And I don't think it's completely unnatural for a mum to believe in her child, if she's had no previous reason not to.

 

[Rusty Braincells]

It's interesting to ponder on how long parents are responsible for their child's behaviour. If you bring them up "normally," it seems unfair that you would be held responsible for their actions as autonomous adults.

And I don't think it's completely natural for a mum to believe in her child, if she's had no previous reason not to.

Well, like I say, I’m not blaming her mother, or saying she shouldn’t support her child. Just saying I can’t see any indication why I should feel sorry for her right now.

The fact of her daughter being convicted for murder doesn’t automatically make me feel sorry for Lucy Letby’s (or any other killer’s) family in and of itself, because I have no idea of what has gone on before or after the crimes as between the family and the killer. I’m not saying I condemn them either, but I don’t automatically go to sympathy the way I do the victims’ families.

 

[Phoenix Lazarus]

We don’t know that as yet, sentencing isn’t till Monday. But it’s extremely likely.

She will definitely get a whole-life tariff.