GUILTY UK - Paige Doherty, 15, Clydebank, 19 March 2016

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Respectfully snipped

You've got me thinking now ... maybe for whatever reason John and Paige had words in the Deli, just supposing he had been flirting with her and she perhaps said 'I'm going to tell my parents/your partner what you just said/did' and left the Deli - he may then have panicked and left the shop thinking he had to stop her and maybe took the knife to scare her ...

That's EXACTLY what I was thinking. He may have made a comment she took exception to and said some things to him that he didn't like. Sometimes it doesn't take much to set off a person.
 
I'm not 100% sure of exact locations but using info from the MSM where Paige was found was only around half a mile from the deli. (10 minutes walk) And Brown Avenue where JL lives is in between the two. That's all awfully close isn't it.


Ok I messed up the map. Skibs where are you? lol
 
Found a map that the Mirror have printed

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http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/see-paige-doherty-honoured-hometown-7625618
 

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Paige Doherty: Heartbroken stepdad of tragic schoolgirl pays tribute with 'Pout for Paige' selfie

The stepdad of tragic teenager Paige Doherty has posted a selfie pouting as the latest tribute to the 15-year-old sweeps social media.

Andy Munro posted the photo as hundreds of well wishers flooded social media sites with pictures after Paige’s mum Pamela Munro made the suggestion to a friend.

The hashtag #poutforpaige has surged in popularity since Friday night and even former TOWIE star Amy Childs posted a picture in tribute.

Pamela told her facebook friends she couldn’t believe the star had taken part and said: “Can’t believe Amy Childs pouted for Paige. She would love it!”

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/paige-doherty-heartbroken-stepdad-tragic-7639085


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I hate duck face.. But my dog and I did it for Paige tonight. Just waiting to get accepted to post it! [emoji13]
 
I think he may have 'nicely' offered her a ride to her job. He could have told her he was heading out that way to pick up supplies and he could go right then and drop her off. Then he gets her in the car and things go sideways...:cry:
 
I don't think he'd planned on, bargained for or was relying on anything ;) in his defence - I don't think he's a master criminal or a long time fantasist murderer - I think something hit the fan that morning and he left evidence everywhere! His car was allegedly seen parked up near where she was found, which of all the places and things he could've done with her, especially if it had been planned, she could've been missing for ... well, Forever. But instead, he left her close to home in a fairly busy spot and I've not heard of any 'shallow grave' so easy to find ... either he had some conscience and wanted her to be found or he really just panicked and didn't have a clue what he was doing?
 
No case has ever made less sense to me before. Why did this happen? Poor girl.
 
I'm not 100% sure of exact locations but using info from the MSM where Paige was found was only around half a mile from the deli. (10 minutes walk) And Brown Avenue where JL lives is in between the two. That's all awfully close isn't it.


Ok I messed up the map. Skibs where are you? lol

I'm here! Tell me what you want me to do lol
 
I don't think he'd planned on, bargained for or was relying on anything ;) in his defence - I don't think he's a master criminal or a long time fantasist murderer - I think something hit the fan that morning and he left evidence everywhere! His car was allegedly seen parked up near where she was found, which of all the places and things he could've done with her, especially if it had been planned, she could've been missing for ... well, Forever. But instead, he left her close to home in a fairly busy spot and I've not heard of any 'shallow grave' so easy to find ... either he had some conscience and wanted her to be found or he really just panicked and didn't have a clue what he was doing?

I think it could be either scenario. Either based on existing fantasies (not exactly having a set plan with everything organised but having a fantasy bubbling in the background that became reality that day) or the other scenario where there's no prior fantasising or *advertiser censored* involved and something just happened that morning that he felt he had to silence Paige over.

Yes when it comes to where Paige's body, it'd be unsual for a murderer to have a conscience and to prioritise the victim being found quickly over their own chance of "getting away with it" and the body was left so close to his home (literally walking distance) that it does look like maybe he just didn't have much time and left her in the nearest suitable spot in a panic. But at what point was the panic?

The morning Paige disappeared? It seems unlikely she lay there undiscovered from the Saturday. Or was it when police were closing in on him. Did he then have to quickly move her from somewhere else that could easily be connected to him... like his home or his shop or his car?
 
I'm here! Tell me what you want me to do lol
Phew! lol Thanks

I was just wondering if you could do one of your maps that highlights the important places and times. The Mirror one has some places (not sure how accurate they are) but doesn't include places like the bus stop, the friend's house Paige walked from that morning etc.
 
I think he may have 'nicely' offered her a ride to her job. He could have told her he was heading out that way to pick up supplies and he could go right then and drop her off. Then he gets her in the car and things go sideways...:cry:

With Paige training to be hairdresser and JS having a daughter a couple of years younger I wondered if he could have asked her if she could pop to his house to style his daughters hair or make up. Paige and her friend spent the previous night doing each others hair and make up so she might have had her beauty "tools" with her. If Paige was only going into work that day to pick up her wages and he was offering her a lift to work afterwards maybe she'd have agreed to earn a little extra money that way. Then he could drive her off somewhere else or if his house was empty drive her there.

Just another scenario to throw in the pot
 

From the pics I have seen on MSM, the location of JLs home is almost at the bottom of Brown Avenue, just before the junction with Fleming Avenue. It would take him, I would guess, less than 2 minutes to walk to work.
Which made me wonder why he would drive to the Deli ? unless he needed his car for take out deliveries ( I think his site quotes 10am to 2pm for deliveries ).
 
I don't think he'd planned on, bargained for or was relying on anything ;) in his defence - I don't think he's a master criminal or a long time fantasist murderer - I think something hit the fan that morning and he left evidence everywhere! His car was allegedly seen parked up near where she was found, which of all the places and things he could've done with her, especially if it had been planned, she could've been missing for ... well, Forever. But instead, he left her close to home in a fairly busy spot and I've not heard of any 'shallow grave' so easy to find ... either he had some conscience and wanted her to be found or he really just panicked and didn't have a clue what he was doing?

Yes, I tend to agree with this. I also don't feel he is some kind of master criminal and I think whatever happened was not planned at all.
My initial thoughts were that Paige did leave the Deli and JL chased after her, offering her a lift because he needed to talk further with her re something that had been said between them on that morning. As has been suggested already, perhaps he overstepped the mark and she threatened to say something to others.

However, on further thought, I can - just about - see that whatever happened might have taken place in the Deli. Presumably there is a back section, not visible from outside and JL and Paige could have stepped back there to * talk * and JL could have quickly locked the door of the Deli before they did so. Still took a risk that he didn't end up with customers outside, but perhaps temper or panic overcame that.

If this is what happened then I also tend to think he hid Paige's body in the Deli, locked up and went away to compose himself, clean up and also perhaps to pick up something else - holdall ? - to put Paige's body into.
I am guessing that someone else comes in to help at the Deli from 10am as he does ( or did ) takeaway deliveries from that time, so he needed to be back before then. Hence his return about 9.30am.
Then I think he had no chance to move Paige's body on the Saturday or Sunday. He closes at 3pm both days, still daylight, and even if he drove somewhere with her, chances he might be seen. Not to mention, probably had family commitments over the week end and couldn't justify being away from home.

So he waited until early hours Monday morning, when he could have used the excuse of needing to go to the Cash and Carry before opening up the Deli.
So he could then move Paige out to his car, while it was still dark ( obviously didn't know about the cctv ! ) and drove out in the direction of the Cash and Carry outlets.
On the way, he leaves Paige at a spot which he probably knew was a meeting venue for young folk, and also the site of some fights. Hope being that it would be thought Paige had gone there and been caught up in some disturbance.
 
Yes, I tend to agree with this. I also don't feel he is some kind of master criminal and I think whatever happened was not planned at all.
My initial thoughts were that Paige did leave the Deli and JL chased after her, offering her a lift because he needed to talk further with her re something that had been said between them on that morning. As has been suggested already, perhaps he overstepped the mark and she threatened to say something to others.

However, on further thought, I can - just about - see that whatever happened might have taken place in the Deli. Presumably there is a back section, not visible from outside and JL and Paige could have stepped back there to * talk * and JL could have quickly locked the door of the Deli before they did so. Still took a risk that he didn't end up with customers outside, but perhaps temper or panic overcame that.

If this is what happened then I also tend to think he hid Paige's body in the Deli, locked up and went away to compose himself, clean up and also perhaps to pick up something else - holdall ? - to put Paige's body into.
I am guessing that someone else comes in to help at the Deli from 10am as he does ( or did ) takeaway deliveries from that time, so he needed to be back before then. Hence his return about 9.30am.
Then I think he had no chance to move Paige's body on the Saturday or Sunday. He closes at 3pm both days, still daylight, and even if he drove somewhere with her, chances he might be seen. Not to mention, probably had family commitments over the week end and couldn't justify being away from home.

So he waited until early hours Monday morning, when he could have used the excuse of needing to go to the Cash and Carry before opening up the Deli.
So he could then move Paige out to his car, while it was still dark ( obviously didn't know about the cctv ! ) and drove out in the direction of the Cash and Carry outlets.
On the way, he leaves Paige at a spot which he probably knew was a meeting venue for young folk, and also the site of some fights. Hope being that it would be thought Paige had gone there and been caught up in some disturbance.
Leaving a stabbed body somewhere like a car boot would've made an awful mess though wouldn't it?
 
I'm thinking the cctv footage was his undoing, and he confessed after being presented with it and questioned about it.

LE came Wed evening with a forensic team to search the deli, house, and car. Within 24 hours, or even earlier, they announced an arrest had been made. Proof in the form of forensic results wouldn't have come back that fast I believe. Hence I'm thinking they saw Paige on the cctv footage entering the deli and never coming back out, but saw him coming out at some point (probably Monday night) carrying or dragging something heavy to his car.
 
Leaving a stabbed body somewhere like a car boot would've made an awful mess though wouldn't it?

He might have bought a tarp at some point? Or had one handy. Or used a large bin bag, or something. Paige was small and petite.

ETA: also, after the heart stops beating blood flow would slow to a trickle, and stop completely after a while.
 
Leaving a stabbed body somewhere like a car boot would've made an awful mess though wouldn't it?

Well he had no option. He needed to transport the body somewhere away from the Deli, so I would guess he used liners etc and I think the body was only in the car on the Monday morning for the short transfer to where she was found.
 
He might have bought a tarp at some point? Or had one handy. Or used a large bin bag, or something. Paige was small and petite.

ETA: also, after the heart stops beating blood flow would slow to a trickle, and stop completely after a while.

I agree and think any blood clean up was done in the Deli with the body only moved on the Monday...as you say, Paige was petite and rigor would have worn off by then so I don't think she would have been too heavy or difficult for him to move her body out to his car.
 

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