Found Deceased UK - Richard Okorogheye, 19, Oxford Student, Ladbroke Grove, West London, 24 Mar 2021

[Jenesaisquoi]

Re Richard’s locked door - maybe simply habit to lock it on the night of his disappearance.

 

[Pinkizzy]

And for what it’s worth some of the comments levelled at the police are understandable in the wake of recent behaviour of Met police and perhaps also in relation to how they handle relations with people of colour but in terms of the police & media response it isn’t actually that far off Everard.

Her disappearance wasn’t really taken so seriously by either for a good couple of days, then social media ramped it up, and then doorbell footage changed all that and it went big. Alleged involvement of a police officer blew it stratospheric in profile terms.

If comments made to the mother by police are correct they’ll have to answer to that though. Especially if it transpires that he could have been found alive if earlier action had been taken.

I'm not blaming anyone, however his mum realised her son was missing after two days of no contact. He may have died before that odd comment from the police - they are not at fault here.

 

[ApparentlyInDenial]

Most experts say a body will surface 3-5 days max. And if the person was dead before entering the water they could feasibly never sink, if they’re face-down.

 

[Tortoise]

What a tragic outcome. I hope police are able to piece together what happened here, and rule out any third party involvement.

 

[Annabel8999]

I'm just catching up on the thread, so forgive me if I miss anything. Trigger warning- Suicide.

I just wanted to give some perspective from someone who has had depression for years, with patches of suicidal ideation.

When you're in that place mentally, you feel like you are a burden to everyone around you, and that their lives would be better without you in it. But you also recognise there will be some initial hurt/grief, so you do what you can to minimise their suffering. That's why I never understand people who get angry with people who jump in front of trains. It was one of my preferred methods to contemplate, because although you are causing pain, you'll be discovered/recovered by a professional, not by your family. It minimises their trauma. You tell them to have a good day, drive safe, that you have regular plans like to see a friend, so that they don't worry.

My view is that Richard went into W2 on the bus to do something before he went to take his own life, intentionally. Perhaps he collected a gun or a knife. Perhaps he went to see London for one last time. I would. The carrier bag I think either had a knife or a bottle of alcohol in it. I know what that feeling is like looking in the bag, it's fear, anticipation, relief, all rolled into one. You know you are doing something 'wrong' so you're looking over your shoulder, but whatever is in that bag sizzles with the feeling that soon it will all be over, so you keep looking at it.

It's a long way out to Epping Forest, but it's quiet, secluded, far away from family, and somewhere where bodies get discovered. So it would be handled by a professional, rather than his mum finding him in his room.

It sounds absolutely terrible but that is how depression warps your mind. You genuinely feel that you want to go somewhere private and stop suffering, that the world will be better off without you, and you know you'll inconvenience someone with your body, so you make sure it's the least bad it can be. If he's been shielding too, he might have wanted his final moments to be out in nature. If it was a knife, sorry to be graphic, but you want vodka and a pool of water nearby, too, to make sure you're effective.

I'm doing much better now, but I hope that helps give insight into what his state of mind could have been. MOO, of course.

 

[Scorpiette]

Thank you for your insight Annabel8999. I was thinking along similar lines about the contents of the bag.

 

[IainD]

New pictures show police guarding the Epping Forest scene where a body was found in the search for missing student Richard Okorogheye.

Pictures show officers at Wake Valley pond in Epping Forest where the body was discovered on Monday, April 5.

New pictures show scene where police found body in hunt for Richard Okorogheye

 

[MsMiniSleuth]

The mother of missing student Richard Okorogheye has said 'my baby will never come home to his mummy again' after police found a body matching his description.

The body, which is yet to be formally identified, was discovered by Essex Police officers in a large pond in Epping Forest yesterday afternoon, 13 days after the 19-year-old went missing.

Community nurse Evidence Joel, 39, told the Evening Standard: 'We thought Richard would be found or would just come home. But he's not. My baby will never come home to his mummy again.

'I can't even describe the feeling. He was taken away from me too early. The only child I have. It's devastating and the last thing I thought I'd hear.'

Today the Metropolitan Police remain at the scene in Epping Forest, where a cordon has been set up around the Wake Valley pond.

Ms Joel said that officers informed her of the news yesterday evening, as investigations remain underway to formally identify the body.

Mother of Richard Okorogheye sobs 'my baby is never coming home'

 

[Cuko]

I'm just catching up on the thread, so forgive me if I miss anything. Trigger warning- Suicide.

I just wanted to give some perspective from someone who has had depression for years, with patches of suicidal ideation.

When you're in that place mentally, you feel like you are a burden to everyone around you, and that their lives would be better without you in it. But you also recognise there will be some initial hurt/grief, so you do what you can to minimise their suffering. That's why I never understand people who get angry with people who jump in front of trains. It was one of my preferred methods to contemplate, because although you are causing pain, you'll be discovered/recovered by a professional, not by your family.

Annabel, thanks so much for sharing your very personal and highly relevant insights. Whether or not it emerges that Richard took his own life, it’s helpful for me (and probably many others) to learn from someone who has personal experience of depression and suicidal thoughts.

 

[barbara fox]

I feel heart sorry for him and his parents.

From the sleuthing rather human side, I wondered about two things that I don’t think I’ve seen discussed. I understand his mum said he only left the house to go for monthly blood transfusions. But she also mentions he said he was going to see his friend the night he disappeared and she didn’t seem surprised or that this was unusual. I mean no criticism if he was going out more frequently - I simply wondered why at the same time she specifically offered up that he only went out for those medical appointments if she knew that he was meeting friends. If he had fallen away from his friendship group as reported by his mum and dad AND he was only leaving house for medical appointments then him casually mentioning one night he was going to see a friend would really stick out to me as a parent.

secondly, I understand his mum worked night shift on the Monday he left and she discovered him missing on the Tuesday after she woke from her sleep post night shift. But the timeline suggests it was the following day, the Wednesday, that he was reported missing. Is that correct? If so, is any reason given for that further delay?

 

[ApparentlyInDenial]

The mother of missing student Richard Okorogheye has said 'my baby will never come home to his mummy again' after police found a body matching his description.

The body, which is yet to be formally identified, was discovered by Essex Police officers in a large pond in Epping Forest yesterday afternoon, 13 days after the 19-year-old went missing.

Community nurse Evidence Joel, 39, told the Evening Standard: 'We thought Richard would be found or would just come home. But he's not. My baby will never come home to his mummy again.

'I can't even describe the feeling. He was taken away from me too early. The only child I have. It's devastating and the last thing I thought I'd hear.'

Today the Metropolitan Police remain at the scene in Epping Forest, where a cordon has been set up around the Wake Valley pond.

Ms Joel said that officers informed her of the news yesterday evening, as investigations remain underway to formally identify the body.

Mother of Richard Okorogheye sobs 'my baby is never coming home'

Tiny technicality: that patch is in Essex' jurisdiction, but it's Met officers on-scene. Likely - JMO - because it's somebody from London/a crime committed to or related to London.

 

[Sherlockhames]

Thank you. Doing all I can now to raise awareness and reduce the stigma!

I have been in a similar place mentally in the past too (not to distant either) and from the moment I saw where he had taken a taxi I was resigned to this having a tragic ending.

I concur entirely with Annabel8999 and all the steps he may have taken to sort of “disappear” are all thoughts I have contemplated in the past. I think there is also a sense of shame? sorrow for others? Not wanting to be a burden? Not sure really how to describe it - but the seeking out of somewhere almost deliberately isolated and hoping not to be found plays into an idea of maybe not wanting to let others down and making them sad by being found to have done something to yourself? (My thoughts often became quite elaborate as to how to “fake” some sort of accident so as to hide from others my state of mind and not make them think there was something they could have done to “save” me when the feelings one has in that situation are so overwhelmingly strong I didn’t feel I could be “saved” and I didn’t have the energy or mental bandwidth to be able to consider the prospect of treatment.

I also wonder whether often parents/family/friends also don’t want to think their family-member/friend capable of suicide, hence trying to look for third party involvement rather than accept someone took their life. In my experience though, it is maybe important to understand that while clearly help is available (and I am doing much better now, thank goodness) when one is in that state of mind it is so overwhelmingly painful and all consuming that there really is little that could maybe be done by third parties. I know it doesn’t help, but I would hate for people to feel any sort of guilt over this. Depressives can be sneaky. Also, because as a society we are still quite bad at talking about the seriousness of depression etc depressives can and will hide their feelings so as not to seem like it is just a “weakness of the mind” often until it is too late - and for some people their mental state can be so severe they will still overcome all the help and interventions etc). I realise I am not making any real points with any real clarity - other than to maybe say that given my own experience, if RO did indeed take his own life, I can fully understand and empathise with all his reasoning and thought processes that potentially led him to where he was found and even though some actions may look strange and irrational, in the mind of someone undergoing severe mental trauma(?) (depression/anxiety - don’t want to make a diagnosis but simply read across from my own issues) then all of his actions seem perfectly understandable to me.

ETA - clearly if the police find some indication of third party involvement/murder/manslaughter then all of the above still holds true - but is clearly not the case in this instance and this would be a truly horrific crime whereby a young man has his life tragically cut short in horrible circumstances. But i suppose at this stage I am just erring on the side of death by suicide since that seems more likely than taking some fairly odd risks in the middle of the night and those risks also turning out v badly. RO seems a fairly well educated, normal young man. I find it harder to imagine the alternative than suicide. MOO based on my own experience so don’t mean to upset or offend any one in any way.

 

[KHA]

I feel heart sorry for him and his parents.

From the sleuthing rather human side, I wondered about two things that I don’t think I’ve seen discussed. I understand his mum said he only left the house to go for monthly blood transfusions. But she also mentions he said he was going to see his friend the night he disappeared and she didn’t seem surprised or that this was unusual. I mean no criticism if he was going out more frequently - I simply wondered why at the same time she specifically offered up that he only went out for those medical appointments if she knew that he was meeting friends. If he had fallen away from his friendship group as reported by his mum and dad AND he was only leaving house for medical appointments then him casually mentioning one night he was going to see a friend would really stick out to me as a parent.

secondly, I understand his mum worked night shift on the Monday he left and she discovered him missing on the Tuesday after she woke from her sleep post night shift. But the timeline suggests it was the following day, the Wednesday, that he was reported missing. Is that correct? If so, is any reason given for that further delay?

The friend(s) that she was assuming he was seeing live on the ground floor of the same building, so technically, that wasn’t leaving the building. She did state he would pop to the shops or see people in the vicinity. And as for falling away from his friendship group I imagine that is a direct consequence of shielding. His friends would also no doubt be at different universities.

In terms of when the actual missing report was filed it was the Wednesday, but as for when she first called I am not so sure. I believe it was actually on the Tuesday. However the police stated he was an adult and did not act upon the information at that point. JMO

 

[dotr]

 

[ApparentlyInDenial]

I saw this - I might be wrong but I don't think the Met would use double-cordons (the blue/white + black/yellow) as well as a vast outer cordon with lots and lots of taped-off sections for a suspected suicide.

Perhaps they're just following guidelines that a dead missing person automatically = suspicious, I don't know. But it seems like a serious crime scene investigation from that video.

JMO

 

[ST3anonymous]

I saw this - I might be wrong but I don't think the Met would use double-cordons (the blue/white + black/yellow) as well as a vast outer cordon with lots and lots of taped-off sections for a suspected suicide.

Perhaps they're just following guidelines that a dead missing person automatically = suspicious, I don't know. But it seems like a serious crime scene investigation from that video.

JMO

Potentially going overboard to make sure people see they’re doing everything they can now? With such large public interest gathering. Jmo.

 

[Annabel8999]

I have been in a similar place mentally in the past too (not to distant either) and from the moment I saw where he had taken a taxi I was resigned to this having a tragic ending.

I concur entirely with Annabel8999 and all the steps he may have taken to sort of “disappear” are all thoughts I have contemplated in the past. I think there is also a sense of shame? sorrow for others? Not wanting to be a burden? Not sure really how to describe it - but the seeking out of somewhere almost deliberately isolated and hoping not to be found plays into an idea of maybe not wanting to let others down and making them sad by being found to have done something to yourself? (My thoughts often became quite elaborate as to how to “fake” some sort of accident so as to hide from others my state of mind and not make them think there was something they could have done to “save” me when the feelings one has in that situation are so overwhelmingly strong I didn’t feel I could be “saved” and I didn’t have the energy or mental bandwidth to be able to consider the prospect of treatment.

I also wonder whether often parents/family/friends also don’t want to think their family-member/friend capable of suicide, hence trying to look for third party involvement rather than accept someone took their life. In my experience though, it is maybe important to understand that while clearly help is available (and I am doing much better now, thank goodness) when one is in that state of mind it is so overwhelmingly painful and all consuming that there really is little that could maybe be done by third parties. I know it doesn’t help, but I would hate for people to feel any sort of guilt over this. Depressives can be sneaky. Also, because as a society we are still quite bad at talking about the seriousness of depression etc depressives can and will hide their feelings so as not to seem like it is just a “weakness of the mind” often until it is too late - and for some people their mental state can be so severe they will still overcome all the help and interventions etc.

Snipped by me (Am I doing this right? Haha)

I agree completely. You can become quite sneaky, because you see ending your own life as your only escape, and you don't want to be stopped or forced to face the feelings you're trying to run from.

As a side note, thank you for avoiding the word 'commit'- it's a hangover from when Suicide was illegal. I prefer 'took their own life' or even 'lost their battle with depression' in the right context. It's victim blaming. Depression is the killer here.

Passive suicidality is a thing too- that you won't actively take steps to end your own life, but you also daydream about accidents. That's something very real and I used to take unnecessary risks to try and cause those accidents, too.

Help is available, and you're right, sometimes people don't want to be helped. But for me, the biggest challenge is that people seriously underestimate how small you have to be with what the next steps are. Severe depression can make it difficult and overwhelming to even make a sandwich, let alone deal with the complexities of the NHS or ringing the GP. My brain was so fogged up that people say 'reach out' or 'speak up' and I'd have no idea what that even meant, let alone how to register for a GP because I'd moved house. Speak out to who? How?

So what can you do?

- Book a GP appointment on behalf of your loved one, and drive them there. You can't force someone, but you can take that overwhelming step for them.
- Don't force them to give up coping mechanisms. Yes, eating disorders, substance abuse and self-harm are very upsetting, but they could be what is keeping them alive. Don't force them to stop.
- Share information in very small formats they can digest in their own time. Perhaps a leaflet left in their bedroom or send them a link. Share stuff from the Samaritans on social media without saying anything specific.
- Keep lines of communication open and don't overreact. You can google 'active listening', or alternatively the subreddit 'suicidewatch' has some good guidelines. Open questions, gentle, and lots of time. Example: 'I noticed you seemed a bit low today. How are you?' is good. 'I'm always here if you want to talk' is ok- but reaching out often is better. 'Everything ok?' is good, 'how are you?' is better. Open questions.
- Don't tell them everything is ok, or that you understand. People with depression want someone to be with them in the dark. Don't tell them how amazing the world is, you'll make them feel more isolated.
- They will try to protect you from them. Don't be afraid of their depression or feel hurt if they shut you out. Look after your own mental health.
- Leave the number for the Samaritans somewhere, and mention casually that the number doesn't appear on any phone bills.

Imagine trying to think with a brain full of dark treacle. Make it so easy to understand it's almost patronising.

MOO, of course, and I'm not a psychologist or qualified in any way other than my own experience.

 

[Commoner]

Richard Okorogheye: Police find body in search for missing student

This afternoon's updated piece on the BBC website. No new information, and both formal identification and post mortem are yet to take place.

I note the later part of the article says that as he was shielding he only went out for essential medical appointments. That's stricter than the shielding rules that were in place at the time

(Daily exercise has been permitted other than in the first weeks March - June 202, and meeting one person for exercise is permitted in some circumstances. This may or may not be how he was living - it could just be slack reporting, for the younger CEV are routinely overlooked as people use stereotypes of old/frail/about to die anyhow)

 

[Tortoise]

I'm just thinking about him wearing a mask at times when he was by himself. It could show self-care, or it could be about shielding his face from the cold air but not taking a jacket out would contradict that.

 

[Sherlockhames]

So what can you do?

- Book a GP appointment on behalf of your loved one, and drive them there. You can't force someone, but you can take that overwhelming step for them.
- Don't force them to give up coping mechanisms. Yes, eating disorders, substance abuse and self-harm are very upsetting, but they could be what is keeping them alive. Don't force them to stop.
- Share information in very small formats they can digest in their own time. Perhaps a leaflet left in their bedroom or send them a link. Share stuff from the Samaritans on social media without saying anything specific.
- Keep lines of communication open and don't overreact. You can google 'active listening', or alternatively the subreddit 'suicidewatch' has some good guidelines. Open questions, gentle, and lots of time. Example: 'I noticed you seemed a bit low today. How are you?' is good. 'I'm always here if you want to talk' is ok- but reaching out often is better. 'Everything ok?' is good, 'how are you?' is better. Open questions.
- Don't tell them everything is ok, or that you understand. People with depression want someone to be with them in the dark. Don't tell them how amazing the world is, you'll make them feel more isolated.
- They will try to protect you from them. Don't be afraid of their depression or feel hurt if they shut you out. Look after your own mental health.
- Leave the number for the Samaritans somewhere, and mention casually that the number doesn't appear on any phone bills.

Imagine trying to think with a brain full of dark treacle. Make it so easy to understand it's almost patronising.

MOO, of course, and I'm not a psychologist or qualified in any way other than my own experience.

Snipped by me

All of the above is v good advice. In my case, I was quite close to doing something to myself - but didn’t. But by then I was at such a low ebb that when it was suggested I speak to a GP I had no strength to resist. The GP took it incredibly seriously, saw me under an emergency appointment within an hour and once “in the system” as it were, I was definitely saved. The emergency care was brilliant - fast, non-judgemental, took me seriously, cared for me, kept me safe. It’s only now I look back I realise how much danger I was in but the NHS were great - but yes, I needed to reach that low ebb and for someone to sort of do it for me as I didn’t have the strength/willpower etc to do it alone.