VA- 6-YEAR-OLD is in custody after shooting teacher

[mickey2942]

There is the "infancy defense" that a child below age 7, doesn't have the cognition to understand the intent of the act. And definitely cannot understand or participate in the court process.

Personally, I think children above age 4, can plan, and carry out a murder with clear premeditation and intent. What stops them, is that most children don't think about killing someone and actually carry out the act. That is some high cognition and shows intent to me.

 

[alex dvport]

There is the "infancy defense" that a child below age 7, doesn't have the cognition to understand the intent of the act. And definitely cannot understand or participate in the court process.

Personally, I think children above age 4, can plan, and carry out a murder with clear premeditation and intent. What stops them, is that most children don't think about killing someone and actually carry out the act. That is some high cognition and shows intent to me.

In my opinion, and according to science, a 4 year old would not likely be able to plan and carry out a premeditated murder. The brain isn’t even fully developed until about 25.

 

[sds71]

'I subbed for her class this year, I taught her class, I taught the 6-year-old that shot her,' she said on her TikTok
In a follow-up, the TikToker said she 'knew [Zwerner] was struggling with some of the kids in there.'

Commenters on the TikToks were sympathetic for both the substitute teacher and the parent.

Parents of Virginia boy, 6, who shot teacher could face charges

The parents of a boy, 6, who allegedly took a gun from home, put it in his backpack and shot his teacher, 25, could face charges for not properly securing the weapon.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[DrQ]

IMHO This is so sad! I have a hard time imagining my 6 year old grandson thinking this way. I'm beginning to feel sheltered for not wanting to believe that a child could think about shooting someone or planning to shoot someone and actually carrying it out. At that age, I was not mature enough and possibly not smart enough to carry out the plan. I was still buying Barbie a wardrobe. It saddens me about what our children see and hear now. Now the task is how to legally handle the situation. What are the odds that this child would/could do this again?
I hope the teacher is ok and I hope the trauma to the classmates is repairable.

 

[ilovewings]

There is the "infancy defense" that a child below age 7, doesn't have the cognition to understand the intent of the act. And definitely cannot understand or participate in the court process.

Personally, I think children above age 4, can plan, and carry out a murder with clear premeditation and intent. What stops them, is that most children don't think about killing someone and actually carry out the act. That is some high cognition and shows intent to me.

agree completely

 

[mickey2942]

agree completely

It is sad. Kids are not playing with paper dolls, Barbies, and Radio Flyer wagons any longer. They spend hours, playing video games, often violent, doing simulated shootings. Most of us are removed by a few generations, and just don't understand the changes in children now. The pandemic was a huge game changer, many children were home with little to no supervision. This little guy, probably missed time in preschool and kindergarten due to the pandemic.

What do you think he was doing if his Mom had to work, either at home, or go to work, with no daycare available?! I know that many children were playing video games for hours...hours...let that sink in.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

As far as media, I feel children have been watching TV for hours since they became common in households, playing video games for hours since Atari/Nintendo arrived, and there have always been children with violent tendencies. I couldn't tell you if the number have increased.

What I do think has changed is number and availability of guns in households, the*level* of violence and type of graphics in movies, shows, and video games nowadays, and greater financial struggles, leading to whatever that leads to in homes.

Our parents let us turn on the T.V. to help get through evenings or early weekend mornings. But the shows were slower-paced cartoons compared to today's. They were funny family comedies. Our Nintendo graphics were not so realistic.

Parents today are doing the same they grew up with by letting kids relax with media, but the media is much different for this generation (more violent, faster paced, more addictive), so children are more negativity affected by it. And less interested in turning it off and doing other activities because it's designed to be addictive.

So you guys are asking today's parents to do even better than their own parents, because today's media is so different. Well that is not going to be easy for everyone. It's doable, but I don't like the judgment against those who aren't succeeding, because the previous generation of parents got away with utilizing media without being so judged.

And in any case, the child who shot his teacher would probably be living a very different life if he hadn't known there was a gun somewhere that he could get his hands on.

 

[amaraya]

Yes, I agree @FunkyMonkey ... I'm willing to bet he has had many behavior problems and reports before now. The trend, as I'm seeing (former preschool teacher, have my own day care now, and keep in touch with preschool workers & ECE's) seems to be kids feeling like they "rule the roost" and discipline problems get poo-pooed, swept under the rug, teachers get hit, spit on, cursed at, etc. One complaint I hear also is parents expect the schools to deal with the behavior problems. However, many times, no real consequences are carried out at school or home. Then, the issues only get bigger and more severe.

iirc there were mentions in an article that there had been problems with the student before and admin hadn't done a thing. i will see if i can find that mention but in this DM article it does mention a student bringing in bullets before and complaints. as a former Kindergarten teacher (now old kids) this is terrifying! what a courageous and amazing teacher she is!

Boy, 6, stole mom's gun and put it in backpack before shooting TEACHER

The six-year-old student who shot his teacher in Virginia stole his mother's gun, put it in his backpack, and then pulled the trigger at his teacher during class.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[AngTxGal]

I really believe unless he was walking by himself to school and just happened upon a loaded gun on the way, his caregivers are absolutely responsible for what's in his backpack.

He could have killed himself, another child, or the teacher.

I believe it extremely unlikely he found the gun on the way to school. I truly hope whichever adults failed him and his classmates and teacher have to face justice for it. The victims' trauma could haunt them for years or maybe life. IMO.

Absolutely, parents should know what is in their 6 yr old’s back pack, and his state of mind.

I don’t believe a six year did not tell someone he was angry at his teacher.
Where is the request for a parent/ teacher conference if there is a problem?

There must be a history/ a story behind this shooting that has yet to come out. How can there not be. A six year old doesn’t have the capacity to plan out such an ‘attack‘ on his own. Does he? How did he learn?
The shooting did not happen first thing that day, what was his plan? What happened to cause the shooter to act when he did?

Newport News Press Conference by PD, FoxNews
Summary of first 14 minutes by Police Department
9mm handgun near student desk
There was not struggle, teacher was teaching the class at the time
Student pulled gun from backpack, shot teacher intentionally
Bullet went through her hand (put up in defense position) and into her chest
Teacher instructed kids to run from classroom and made sure they were safe, walked to office to get help
Kids and parents were reunited

Teacher is in stable condition
Kids will talk to psychologists to give a statement
Child was taken into custody
Parents came to PD and were interviewed
Child obtained gun from household, legally purchased
Child has been evaluated and currently receiving treatment/ mental health

 

[alex dvport]

Absolutely, parents should know what is in their 6 yr old’s back pack, and his state of mind.

I don’t believe a six year did not tell someone he was angry at his teacher.
Where is the request for a parent/ teacher conference if there is a problem?

There must be a history/ a story behind this shooting that has yet to come out. How can there not be. A six year old doesn’t have the capacity to plan out such an ‘attack‘ on his own. Does he? How did he learn?
The shooting did not happen first thing that day, what was his plan? What happened to cause the shooter to act when he did?

Newport News Press Conference by PD, FoxNews
Summary of first 14 minutes by Police Department
9mm handgun near student desk
There was not struggle, teacher was teaching the class at the time
Student pulled gun from backpack, shot teacher intentionally
Bullet went through her hand (put up in defense position) and into her chest
Teacher instructed kids to run from classroom and made sure they were safe, walked to office to get help
Kids and parents were reunited

Teacher is in stable condition
Kids will talk to psychologists to give a statement
Child was taken into custody
Parents came to PD and were interviewed
Child obtained gun from household, legally purchased
Child has been evaluated and currently receiving treatment/ mental health

Perhaps, it is my interpretation but you are victim shaming- “Where is the request for the parent/ teacher conference if there is a problem?” This puts blame on the teacher. It doesn’t matter if the teacher requested 0 or 100 conferences. Children don’t act one way at home and another at school. If there were behavior issues, then the parent knew. The questions that should be asked are: How did the child get access to the gun? and When will the gun owner be held responsible? Moo
Edited: typo

 

[AngTxGal]

As far as media, I feel children have been watching TV for hours since they became common in households, playing video games for hours since Atari/Nintendo arrived, and there have always been children with violent tendencies. I couldn't tell you if the number have increased.

What I do think has changed is number and availability of guns in households, the*level* of violence and type of graphics in movies, shows, and video games nowadays, and greater financial struggles, leading to whatever that leads to in homes.

Our parents let us turn on the T.V. to help get through evenings or early weekend mornings. But the shows were slower-paced cartoons compared to today's. They were funny family comedies. Our Nintendo graphics were not so realistic.

Parents today are doing the same they grew up with by letting kids relax with media, but the media is much different for this generation (more violent, faster paced, more addictive), so children are more negativity affected by it. And less interested in turning it off and doing other activities because it's designed to be addictive.

So you guys are asking today's parents to do even better than their own parents, because today's media is so different. Well that is not going to be easy for everyone. It's doable, but I don't like the judgment against those who aren't succeeding, because the previous generation of parents got away with utilizing media without being so judged.

And in any case, the child who shot his teacher would probably be living a very different life if he hadn't known there was a gun somewhere that he could get his hands on.

We must be a similar age
After School ages 6-10
While doing homework we had a snack then watched Brady Bunch or Gilligan’s Island- 30 min
Afterward we were outside- across the street from a park- shot baskets, played kickball, rode bikes in the neighborhood until dusk
After eating together as a family we watched Happy Days, Andy Griffith, The Walton’s

The games we played were Candy Land, Shoots and Ladders, PayDay
Video games such as Atari did not come out until I was about 12, no longer living in the city

TV was light hearted sit-coms of family life
We were always in bed by 8:30PM, and up at 6:30AM

Was our family life without financial stress, stress of older teen sisters, No. It was the 70’s there Cold War, oil embargo, diplomats held hostage by Iran, Watergate, Roe v Wade, end of VietNam War

Lots of things have pulled kids into the world of adult stresses- and they are unable to understand, make a difference, and handle that stress.
Their way to escape is still filled with adult themes, and more graphic and realistic, less happy and less laughing or laughing over the antics of darkness, mental health struggles, harming others, sexual themes, language
It appears we traded Looney Tunes for The Simpsons, Three Musketeers for Rick and Morty

JMO

JMO

 

[AngTxGal]

Perhaps, it is my interpretation but you are victim shaming- “Where is the request for the parent/ teacher conference if there is a problem?” This puts blame on the teacher. It doesn’t matter if the teacher requested 0 or 100 conferences. Children don’t act one way at home and another at school. If there were behavior issues, then the parent knew. The questions that should be asked are: How did the child get access to the gun? and When will the gun owner be held responsible? Moo
Edited: typo

I clearly questioned why parents would not know their 1st grader had an issue with their teacher. A parent teacher conference can be requested by a parent If the child is sharing issues at home.

Of course his access to the gun is a problem, but this is not that simple.

I’m aware of how children act, I raised two and have taught for over 30 years.
It is not normal for 1st grade child to have intense issues with a teacher, or peers, or anyone.

This was not an accident between children at home- which is typically what happens when a gun is left out where small children can have access.
This 6 yr old brought the gun to school for the purpose of shooting his teacher. That is a fact. It demands questions to be asked.

What is my speculation? This child may have severe behavioral issues that had gone unnoticed? Did the parents know? Did the teacher know? WHy was he still in teh classroom? Were they documented?
It is January- this child has been in this classroom since Aug.

He shot a teacher
He also hit an adult who was attempting to restrain him
Why?

JMO

 

[ilovewings]

We must be a similar age
After School ages 6-10
While doing homework we had a snack then watched Brady Bunch or Gilligan’s Island- 30 min
Afterward we were outside- across the street from a park- shot baskets, played kickball, rode bikes in the neighborhood until dusk
After eating together as a family we watched Happy Days, Andy Griffith, The Walton’s

The games we played were Candy Land, Shoots and Ladders, PayDay
Video games such as Atari did not come out until I was about 12, no longer living in the city

TV was light hearted sit-coms of family life
We were always in bed by 8:30PM, and up at 6:30AM

Was our family life without financial stress, stress of older teen sisters, No. It was the 70’s there Cold War, oil embargo, diplomats held hostage by Iran, Watergate, Roe v Wade, end of VietNam War

Lots of things have pulled kids into the world of adult stresses- and they are unable to understand, make a difference, and handle that stress.
Their way to escape is still filled with adult themes, and more graphic and realistic, less happy and less laughing or laughing over the antics of darkness, mental health struggles, harming others, sexual themes, language
It appears we traded Looney Tunes for The Simpsons, Three Musketeers for Rick and Morty

JMO

JMO

and on top of all of that children now, the very youngest, have to worry about being shot in school--

 

[sandy_80]

a 4 year old and younger can fully use the internet today..i am not sure science gives you all the answers...there are violent children who bully and harm siblings or other kids at a very young age.. i have a manipulative toddler girl in the family ..she also has anger issues..I was left with her for a while and couldn't deal .. she would attack kids or run fast towards a busy road ..she almost gave me a heart attack..
she was able to manipulate the school and the social authorities that she was being mistreated at home ..how do you deal with kids like that

 

[mickey2942]

The problem is, that until the child actually does something extremely violent, the school really can't do anything about it. Sure, draw pictures of shooting someone, say you are going to kill someone, it is not a normal kid, but the school system is tied. Least restrictive environment and all of that...

I have no doubt that this kid is a bully, and manipulative. I would also hazard a guess that he has relatives who have been to jail.

 

[chipwhitley]

Sometimes parents do not show up to conferences or do not answer phone calls, emails, etc. no matter how many times the schools try to get in touch.

 

[scapa]

In my opinion, and according to science, a 4 year old would not likely be able to plan and carry out a premeditated murder. The brain isn’t even fully developed until about 25.

This, and more.

Children can begin developing a "moral intelligence" from an early age but this is within a strict frame of reference -- a child may know that it is "wrong" to hit a sibling, say, or take a choc biccy without asking, or smear expensive face cream all over the floor to "make it snow" (ask me how I know).

But a six year-old has a very limited perspective -- time, duration, irrevocability -- that makes it impossible for them to understand the longrange consequences of things they do. That's why a small child isn't "grounded" for weeks or months, but has a timeout for a short period that they can get their head around. That's why a small child who has learned of the death of a beloved grandparent on Thursday can ask on Saturday of that grandparent will be coming for the holidays.

That's why small children should be nowhere near gun play in their family home and nowhere near a handgun -- a loaded handgun -- that is unsecured and available, however legally it was obtained.

Disclaimer: I'm a doc, but my specializations don't include psych so this is strictly IMO

 

[nomoresorrow]

a 4 year old and younger can fully use the internet today..i am not sure science gives you all the answers...there are violent children who bully and harm siblings or other kids at a very young age.. i have a manipulative toddler girl in the family ..she also has anger issues..I was left with her for a while and couldn't deal .. she would attack kids or run fast towards a busy road ..she almost gave me a heart attack..
she was able to manipulate the school and the social authorities that she was being mistreated at home ..how do you deal with kids like that

The toddler child in your family should be in therapy asap. If there is resistance from the parent(s) to get this child into therapy, then you need to reevaluate who is really manipulating who here. MOO

 

[shotgun09]

I am old school
Children learn what they live......

 

[Ontario Mom]

I am old school
Children learn what they live......

Well, I'm old school too but this isn't always 100% true.

Some of the most kind hearted humans I've ever known, come from the most horrific backgrounds.
Likewise, evil people from loving homes.

I can't explain it, but we all know it happens.