VA - Couple & two teens found murdered, Farmville, 15 Sept 2009 #2

[Nikolai]

They actually didnt even meet on myspace til Feb. 09 so its more like 6 months they had talked, im not sure when they got together unless it was in June or July and im not sure why it was so secret.....

It doesnt surprise me that Emma would have Sam over her house if only knowing him since June because she's only 16 and she thought she really liked him. It does surprise me her parents would let him stay over though, of course though she could have lied to them about his age and how long she knew him.

 

[Nikolai]

yeah... what's the secret part all about? oh oh. you don't think... that emma could have been kind of toying with sam? like, i'm your girl but don't tell anyone?

I have no idea what she was like but a teenager can do all kinds of silly games like that.

She could have been unsure if she liked him and maybe could have been talking to guys other than Sam for awhile. She was young and could have played silly immature games with relationships. Even after coming out it seemed she talked to other guys. Sam may have hated that, he himself said he got upset at her after reading a text message she got, thats pretty telling.

 

[Heroine]

yeah... what's the secret part all about? oh oh. you don't think... that emma could have been kind of toying with sam? like, i'm your girl but don't tell anyone?

I have no idea what she was like but a teenager can do all kinds of silly games like that.

Maybe Sam didn't want anyone to know because he was 20 and emma 16, you know statutory rape?

 

['Ailina]

yeah... what's the secret part all about? oh oh. you don't think... that emma could have been kind of toying with sam? like, i'm your girl but don't tell anyone?

I have no idea what she was like but a teenager can do all kinds of silly games like that.

Would it have had anything to do with their ages? He was over 18.

Speaking from experience (*shame*), I pulled stuff like that when I was a teenager -- the "keeping it a secret" stuff. Especially if I was talking to someone else and didn't want to really commit. That was the first thing that crossed my mind when I read about the secret part.

But we don't know Emma's character. If she was very flirty and flighty, it's likely that's the cause of the secret. If she was generally open and brutally honest with people, then it was probably for a different reason.

(And I'm not sure why I'm biased to think it was Emma who wanted to keep it a secret. It could very well have been mutual, or entirely Sam's idea. But for some reason, I tend to think that idea originated with the female.)

 

[Heroine]

Would it have had anything to do with their ages? He was over 18.

Speaking from experience (*shame*), I pulled stuff like that when I was a teenager -- the "keeping it a secret" stuff. Especially if I was talking to someone else and didn't want to really commit. That was the first thing that crossed my mind when I read about the secret part.

But we don't know Emma's character. If she was very flirty and flighty, it's likely that's the cause of the secret. If she was generally open and brutally honest with people, then it was probably for a different reason.

(And I'm not sure why I'm biased to think it was Emma who wanted to keep it a secret. It could very well have been mutual, or entirely Sam's idea. But for some reason, I tend to think that idea originated with the female.)

I agree that it was probably Sam's idea to keep it a secret. Probably for more than one reason.

 

[thesaint]

Age of consent in Michigan is 16:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_North_America#Michigan

18 in Cali and VA, with some close age exceptions.

In Virginia, sex with 15,16,17 year olds is only a misdemeanor.

California has similar leeway written into their statute.

 

['Ailina]

age of consent in michigan is 16:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ages_of_consent_in_north_america#michigan

18 in cali and va, with some close age exceptions.

In virginia, sex with 15,16,17 year olds is only a misdemeanor.

California has similar leeway written into their statute.

barf.

 

[rainbow]

Almost all of rap is a bad influence on young people and a lot of it encourages breaking the law. Its been that way for a long time, almost not really worth complaining anymore. A lot of high school kids that dont listen to any rap drink alcohol underage without their parents even knowing it.

sorry but I have to disagree with you on this....and I am a little confused by this statement,

almost all of rap is a bad influence on young people but then you say that a lot of kids that DONT listen to rap drink???

This is as far as I wish to carry this argument until I hear your response because I seriously dont know what you mean by this post

 

[rainbow]

I get what you are saying. And there are alot of negative influences beside music in this world. It's been that way since the beginning of time. But as a parent I am legally responsible for any law my child breaks, not to mention their health and welfare. I can't be with my kids 24/7 to monitor what they do. However, I talk and talk with my kids. And I do it in a way that's just flat out logical. For instance, they might hate that they can't go to a party with parents there I don't know and liquor and drugs could be there. I point out that it's not just about me and my rules. The law is the law. They break the law they get arrested and then we are both in trouble. And I've always told my kids you get arrested I won't pick you up. My oldest daughter told me that that last sentence saved her from getting into trouble many times. Her friends would get one of those "it seemed like a good idea at the time" ideas. My daughter would tell them, do what you want, call me a geek, but your parents will bail you out and hold your hand....my mom won't.




My point is, just for the fact that alot of illegal activities are associated with the group, and activities that go against my morals and the life I want my kids to have, I wouldn't have been driving them all over for days for them to attend that type of concert. And I wouldn't have been supporting these influences for a child that was obviously struggling with her own identity and being led astray. I think if your kid is into something like SKR, it's a big ole red flag that something is seriously wrong. I don't think the music always causes people to act out, but I think it attracts people who already have a problem to begin with and it's a toxic comination asking for trouble. All IMO, of course.

Great post, you saved me a lot of typing haha

 

[Nikolai]

Maybe Sam didn't want anyone to know because he was 20 and emma 16, you know statutory rape?

I didnt really even think about that. I would also think it would be a bit embarrassing to many 20 year olds to be dating a 16 year old. And it would be even more embarrassing to get rejected by one.

 

[Heroine]

Age of consent in Michigan is 16:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_North_America#Michigan

18 in Cali and VA, with some close age exceptions.

In Virginia, sex with 15,16,17 year olds is only a misdemeanor.

California has similar leeway written into their statute.

I'm not sure about it only being a misdemeanor in Va or not, but I do know people who have gotten statutory rape charges in VA for having sex with someone the age of 16 while he was 19.
In VA it's against the law to even have sex if you're not married.
Even still maybe Sam didn't want her parents to know at first in fear of being in trouble, or maybe he didn't want the "crew" to know because she was so young that it embarrassed him that he was older?

 

['Ailina]

I find it so ironic that kids post all sorts of gushy messages on FaceBook and MySpace, complete with cutesy graphic embellishments, but then keep real relational ties a secret. Just my observation.

 

[Heroine]

I find it so ironic that kids post all sorts of gushy messages on FaceBook and MySpace, complete with cutesy graphic embellishments, but then keep real relational ties a secret. Just my observation.

I agree. It really was never any secret if Pixy is right about how long they were seeing each other, because everything from that point on was blasted all over myspace. I wish there was a way to see Emma's page to see what he was saying to her. It could be incriminating in itself.

 

[Nikolai]

sorry but I have to disagree with you on this....and I am a little confused by this statement,

almost all of rap is a bad influence on young people but then you say that a lot of kids that DONT listen to rap drink???

Yea, people can make the argument that a lot of rap music is a bad influence because of the content, but even that I think is overrated. But as far as underage kids drinking alcohol, many high school kids will drink alcohol at a party no matter whether they listen to rap music or britney spears.

I agree with the fact that SKR were bad influences on Emma and Mel because they were hanging out with 25+ year olds. When young kids hang out with older people they are easier exposed to things they probably shouldnt be yet like drugs and alcohol. But thats nothing rare either, and as much as I hate to say it, its pretty much the parents responsibility to keep their kids from being friends with someone like Razakel or that group. Not that theyre necessarily bad people, but because of their age and because its pretty obvious they are a group that parties a lot.

 

[Nikolai]

I find it so ironic that kids post all sorts of gushy messages on FaceBook and MySpace, complete with cutesy graphic embellishments, but then keep real relational ties a secret. Just my observation.

Thats what I said a lot earlier in this thread. I dont know any couple or any person who talked to their boy/girlfriend like that when I was in high school. I think its weird.

 

['Ailina]

I agree with the fact that SKR were bad influences on Emma and Mel because they were hanging out with 25+ year olds. When young kids hang out with older people they are easier exposed to things they probably shouldnt be yet like drugs and alcohol. But thats nothing rare either, and as much as I hate to say it, its pretty much the parents responsibility to keep their kids from being friends with someone like Razakel or that group. Not that theyre necessarily bad people, but because of their age and because its pretty obvious they are a group that parties a lot.

Yes, I agree SKR were bad influences. I also agree the parents had a responsibility to keep their kids from such influences (and God knows they may have given it their very best shot -- we may never know).

The bottom line -- family didn't (possibly couldn't) protect these kids, therapy didn't, community didn't, church didn't. For all the adults involved, these children still fell. It's so damned tragic.

 

[Nikolai]

Yes, I agree SKR were bad influences. I also agree the parents had a responsibility to keep their kids from such influences (and God knows they may have given it their very best shot -- we may never know).

The bottom line -- family didn't (possibly couldn't) protect these kids, therapy didn't, community didn't, church didn't. For all the adults involved, these children still fell. It's so damned tragic.

Yep and when you look at Sam McCroskey, nothing would make anybody think that the kid is going to go and kill 4 people and thats like a 1 in a million thing. But its still on the parents because this was a kid, a male, their 16 year old daughter knew from the internet, and someone they didnt know at all. I understand maybe just driving her to michigan to meet with him at a concert for a day, but letting him come stay at your house, not even knowing him, is a bit much. The good thing is other parents will learn from it.

 

[wadahoot]

Hello! I'm finally wading into the fray ... I've slogged through 32 of the 52 pages on the other thread, and have jumped ahead here, so I can join in the discussion.

My husband and I both knew Mark from teen to our mid-20s and we learned of his murder (and the other three, of course), and are just horrified. Of course, we're searching for a how? why? and our biggest shock (other than just simply the killings, of course) is that Mark and his wife would allow Emma to be so out of control. We are the parents of a 20-year old son, and just can't figure how they could let her be so 'out there.'

On one webpage, there were detailed comments from one of his church members saying that Emma literally ran the house, as her parents only wanted to please her and give her everything she desired. This could explain not saying no to a number of scenarios that came to pass in this tragedy.

The comments also stated that Emma was very 'wild' and was being home-schooled to try to calm her down (keep her from bad influences?). She apparently dyed her hair every couple of weeks and was really out there with her clothing (not that this is bad, but for a preacher's kid, it's not great!).

This made us think that perhaps he felt that, if he let Emma be 'wild' under supervision (with the parents taking she and Melanie to the horrorcore concert in Michigan, having Sam stay in the family home, etc.), that she would grow out of the crazy period in her life.

I also gathered, from reading numerous articles, that Mark no longer lived in the family home (just Debra and Emma lived there) and he apparently lives on the outskirts of town in a rental of some type, about a 40 minute drive from the house.

We are just stunned, and, at 52, my husband had really been shaken up realizing that he needs to begin to stay in touch with people that have mattered to him over the years.

I found posted, if it is accurate, two of Melanie's 'poems' http://www.amnation.com/vfr/archives/014308.html about 3/4 of the way down. I found one of the 'poems' quoted elsewhere, but can't verify either, as the MySpace pages have been taken down.

I'll add more later, if it's OK with you all, but I wanted to introduce myself. Thanks for 'listening.

 

[KAE]

I've finally managed to get through all the posts on this and the first thread.

Someone posted the theory that Emma's mother may have been doing research on the horrorcore subculture. Is there a possibility that Emma could have been helping her by posing as a follower? What if she were found out?

Just a wild thought I had. I don't really believe it myself - just typing out loud.

Forgive me if it was discussed before - I may have missed it.

 

[SuziQ]

Wadahoot, welcome to WS. I am so sorry for the loss of your friend and I look forward to your future posts.