VA VA - David Metzler, 19, & Heidi Childs, 18, fatally shot, Montgomery Co, 26 Aug 2009

[AnnaGrace]

That article mentions David was in the passenger seat. True? Could we guess that the threat came from somebody on the driver's side of the car and the couple tried to exit the passenger side. Heidi made it out but David didn't? Otherwise, it seems odd David would be on the passenger side.

EDIT: Somebody posted (on another forum) that David was shot through the driver side window but I don't know if this is reliable. So, he was either trying to escape out the passenger side or was knocked that direction.

They were in David's car so I would think he was driving. It does sound as though they were trying to escape on the passenger side. I believe that's most likely what happened. When they saw the gunman, they tried to run. That's so sad.

I remember hearing or reading when it first happened, that he was shot through the driver's window, but don't remember the source.

 

[JohnTate90210]

They were supposed to build a fire and play guitars. Since they were still in the car, it appears they never got that far which might indicate they were killed very soon after arriving at the site.

Is there even a place for a fire there? Nothing is obvious in the aerial photo.

 

[Tulessa]

I recently drove thru this area coming down from NJ on Vacation, it's such a wide open area, and seems like you could escape easily. From my own experience dealing with the case of the Zodiac Killer, the fact a rifle was used, is pretty telling. It's not as easy to use for sure. The killer would have a hard time getting it out quickly, and hiding it easily.

Perhaps I missed it, but was this crime committed at night? It's actually similar to a Zodiac crime in which the killer pulled up beside or behind a couple, perhaps under the pretense of being a cop, then ordered the couple out of the car. The male was shot first, and the female took off running, and was shot in the back. It's likely that the killer used a flashlight. The key difference here, is that in this Zodiac case I am mentioning, the killer used a .22 pistol, so he could fire with one hand and hold the light with the other hand. You can't do that with a rifle, you need both hands to shoot, so this could indicate that more than one person was involved.

By the way, not being totally familiar with the VA layout, is this close to the colonial parkway of Williamsburg/Jamestown areas? I know there was a serial killer or killers active there in the 80's or 90's stalking couples parked in cars at night.

BBM: Not arguing with you at all, so please don't take it that way! I am a lady, and I have NO problem loading and handling a 30 0' 6. The hardest rifle I have found to handle, is my 307, and now it's a breeze. People have to remember, that these mountains (coming from the Kentucky side) are beautiful, but they are NOT safe. The mountains are tall, and the valleys are deep. Pot patches are abundant here, and people would kill you in a heartbeat over one. Heck, there's even Ginseng patches that people have started that they would kill over. I used to ride my ATV with my German Shepherd all the time, (3-4 times a week) , until we had a couple murdered on an ATV not 5 miles as the crows fly from my house. I've even heard gunshots, and even though I am handy with a gun, no one can call me stupid.

ETA! I forgot to mention the numerous caves in this area. Some would make nice homes.

 

[:+:MrTT:+:]

http://www.bbonline.com/articles/vi...efferson-national-forest-near-blacksburg.html

horseback riding.
In cold cases thinking way outside the box is something we do. And this is probably so far outside the box it would be funny if this case was not so serious and tragic. Before posting I wanted to check and see if any activity like this was done in the area. According to many sites including the one above there are horse trails available in this park.

Could it be possible that the killer came into the area from a horse Trail? Could the killer had been riding a horse? Be no problem carrying a 30 odd six on horse back. Would be easy to disappear later and not be seen.

Asking any locals, anyone that has been to the area where the couple were found if any horse trails were near by? Can you get in and get out by horse? Any stables around that area? Was horse riding available during this time of year?

 

[JohnTate90210]

http://www.bbonline.com/articles/vi...efferson-national-forest-near-blacksburg.html

horseback riding.
In cold cases thinking way outside the box is something we do. And this is probably so far outside the box it would be funny if this case was not so serious and tragic. Before posting I wanted to check and see if any activity like this was done in the area. According to many sites including the one above there are horse trails available in this park.

Could it be possible that the killer came into the area from a horse Trail? Could the killer had been riding a horse? Be no problem carrying a 30 odd six on horse back. Would be easy to disappear later and not be seen.

Asking any locals, anyone that has been to the area where the couple were found if any horse trails were near by? Can you get in and get out by horse? Any stables around that area? Was horse riding available during this time of year?

I do know the Appalachian Trail is on the top of the ridge just to the north. Here's the section that's near the crime site:

http://www.everytrail.com/view_trip.php?trip_id=2785436

I've taken that map and added the crime scene location in the following map:

 

[JohnTate90210]

From that map, you can see there's a small road (probably gravel/dirt) that leads from the crime scene northeast to very close to the Appalachian Trail. That would be a very low traveled road, I suspect (assuming it's not gated off).

Alternately, Route 621 also goes to the northeast and crosses the trail. The distance from the crime scene to that trail intersection is about 5 miles.

The Appalachian Trail is likely used by hunters. As a hiker who has walked a lot of the Appy Trail in the area, I've never run into hikers carrying rifles but have encountered hunters. Also, it's around May that the trail in this area gets a lot of use by thru-hikers. By autumn, there's not very many people out hiking.

I can imagine a hunter driving up that dirt road and then walking a short connector to get on the Appy Trail. Later, he might drive back down and come out right at the Caldwell Fields parking area. Hmm, is there any chance he might've had an illegal game kill with him and been confronted by the couple?

By the way, horses are not allowed on the Appalachian Trail. Neither are bicycles or motorized vehicles. I have run into bikes once, though. The trail does often intersect other trails. I hiked one trail to get to the Appy and ran into horses on that trail. The only place I've seen horses on the Appy Trail is in Grayson Highlands where ponies live in the wild.

 

[ThinkHard]

From the article, at 8:00 they were still in Blacksburg. If they were killed at 8:30 then it was about the time they would have arrived at Caldwell Fields. Unfortunately, there's a 90 minute window so it's hard to say. Apparently nobody has come forward that saw them at the site so we don't know if they'd just arrived or been there a while.

With her purse being stolen, the killer was up close. Or at least got close after shooting. The use of a rifle just seems odd. It's nothing anybody would carry for protection or robbery so it doesn't seem like the killer went there with intent to kill unless it was a sniper type attack. David was inside the car but I don't guess police have said if the window was shot, have they? I'd think they could tell if the shots were close or distant.

Just a thought, but perhaps someone didn't come upon them when they where parked, but rather when they went to park, they came upon something they weren't meant to see.

 

[ThinkHard]

http://www.bbonline.com/articles/vi...efferson-national-forest-near-blacksburg.html

horseback riding.
In cold cases thinking way outside the box is something we do. And this is probably so far outside the box it would be funny if this case was not so serious and tragic. Before posting I wanted to check and see if any activity like this was done in the area. According to many sites including the one above there are horse trails available in this park.

Could it be possible that the killer came into the area from a horse Trail? Could the killer had been riding a horse? Be no problem carrying a 30 odd six on horse back. Would be easy to disappear later and not be seen.

Asking any locals, anyone that has been to the area where the couple were found if any horse trails were near by? Can you get in and get out by horse? Any stables around that area? Was horse riding available during this time of year?

I guess its possibly. But I will say as a rider myself, I think it would be odd to be on a trail at night.

 

[ThinkHard]

Question. Do we know how long they dated? Or if maybe there was a hS bf or a want to be bf, in Heidi's life?

 

[TedMac]

Question. Do we know how long they dated? Or if maybe there was a hS bf or a want to be bf, in Heidi's life?

They had been a couple for several years and Heidi was home schooled. So, it probably wasn't a jealous ex from her HS. Also, the manner in which they were ambushed would have made it difficult for anyone with a grudge against them to stalk them without them being aware of the killer's presence. It almost had to be someone waiting to ambush the next person to come by or someone that was in the area that wanted to rape a woman and had seen couples park their before. MOO.

 

[ThinkHard]

They had been a couple for several years and Heidi was home schooled. So, it probably wasn't a jealous ex from her HS. Also, the manner in which they were ambushed would have made it difficult for anyone with a grudge against them to stalk them without them being aware of the killer's presence. It almost had to be someone waiting to ambush the next person to come by or someone that was in the area that wanted to rape a woman and had seen couples park their before. MOO.

Or they drove in on something someone didn't want them to see.

 

[TedMac]

Or they drove in on something someone didn't want them to see.

That is a good possibility.

One thing that has really bothered me about the case is the amount of time the killer or killers spent at the crime scene. The killer (or killers) used a hunting rifle to shoot both victims and I have never read where LE has stated whether or not Heidi was sexually assaulted. Some on here have speculated that she was, but I have never seen anything put forth by LE to confirm it. If anyone knows differently, please correct me. The hunting rifle would have made a lot of noise and the killer(s) would have taken quite a chance to remain at the scene for a period of time to rape Heidi if they shot David first. Even though no one was apparently around the area, it still would have been a risky move on his/their part to stay there long enough to do that after firing a shot from the rifle. I suppose it is possible that he/they may have kept David alive through the ordeal and shot him at about the time Heidi was killed.

This is just MOO and as always I welcome feedback.

 

[JohnTate90210]

It looks like sunset was at 8:00 which I think is the time the couple were last seen in Blacksburg. I'd say it was dark by the time they arrived at Caldwell Fields. Unless I knew other people were going to be there, I think I'd have been a bit leery of going there in the dark. It's rather remote.

As for a rapist or thief, it doesn't seem like a place to lay in wait for victims. It's just too remote. Plus, the gun just doesn't seem the type you'd use for such crimes. There have been no repeat crimes of a similar nature in the area, so that makes it seem more like a one-time thing driven by some event. An angry encounter, misunderstanding, seeing something they shouldn't have.

I can imagine some guy seeing the couple and making a crude comment which led to David saying something back. Or perhaps a couple that was fighting and David and/or Heidi stepping in to assist the woman. Happening across a drug deal is another idea. I'd also think of the possibility of a bad cop but the weapon is just wrong. I don't guess game wardens carry such guns, do they? If it's ever solved, I think it's going to be something odd. Being at the wrong place at the wrong time.

 

[TedMac]

It looks like sunset was at 8:00 which I think is the time the couple were last seen in Blacksburg. I'd say it was dark by the time they arrived at Caldwell Fields. Unless I knew other people were going to be there, I think I'd have been a bit leery of going there in the dark. It's rather remote.

As for a rapist or thief, it doesn't seem like a place to lay in wait for victims. It's just too remote. Plus, the gun just doesn't seem the type you'd use for such crimes. There have been no repeat crimes of a similar nature in the area, so that makes it seem more like a one-time thing driven by some event. An angry encounter, misunderstanding, seeing something they shouldn't have.

I can imagine some guy seeing the couple and making a crude comment which led to David saying something back. Or perhaps a couple that was fighting and David and/or Heidi stepping in to assist the woman. Happening across a drug deal is another idea. I'd also think of the possibility of a bad cop but the weapon is just wrong. I don't guess game wardens carry such guns, do they? If it's ever solved, I think it's going to be something odd. Being at the wrong place at the wrong time.

BBM Yes, it is a remote area and I have wondered if some of the locals use it as a "lovers' lane"?
That was why I was thinking the killer or killers may have staked it out as a possible site for an ambush attack to find a girl to rape. We don't know that Heidi was raped, but that could have been the motive. This is just a theory.

I don't believe that was why David and Heidi were there. According to the link below, they were planning to build a fire and play guitar.

http://www.roanoke.com/news/crime/fi...7d48b02cf.html

You are correct that there have been no repeat crimes and it seems more and more that this may have been just a senseless, random killing.

 

[JohnTate90210]

Way back around 1980, give or take, there was a somewhat similar case near Narrows, Virginia. A couple, Karen Noble and Jeff Scott, was either abducted or ambushed at a remote spot. He was shot and put in the back of his pickup truck which was set on fire. She was shot in the head and left in a nearby stream where she drowned. A while later, I think within a year, a guy attempted to abduct another young couple. It ended with a car wreck and arrest of the suspect. Police pretty much pinned the double-murder on him but it never went to trial. He was tried on a separate rape and committed suicide in jail. He'd been in trouble in the past for another rape or two. The Noble/Scott case is still unsolved and many in the area don't believe the suspect was involved. There is even some thought the actual killer was the same guy who went on to kill a couple on the Appalachian Trail.

So, on the surface, Childs/Metzler is similar to Noble/Scott, but we've seen no repeat or earlier similar cases. I wonder if police checked anybody who suddenly dropped out of Virginia Tech (or other local schools) and left the area. Are there similar cases elsewhere?

 

[JohnTate90210]

On the previous page, I posted a map showing the Appalachian Trail and a small road that goes from the crime scene to near the top of the mountain.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...County-27-August-2009&p=11170355#post11170355

Does anybody know if that road is gated off? I've hiked a lot of the Appy Trail and occasionally run into such roads with gates.

 

[:+:MrTT:+:]

From that map, you can see there's a small road (probably gravel/dirt) that leads from the crime scene northeast to very close to the Appalachian Trail. That would be a very low traveled road, I suspect (assuming it's not gated off).

Alternately, Route 621 also goes to the northeast and crosses the trail. The distance from the crime scene to that trail intersection is about 5 miles.

The Appalachian Trail is likely used by hunters. As a hiker who has walked a lot of the Appy Trail in the area, I've never run into hikers carrying rifles but have encountered hunters. Also, it's around May that the trail in this area gets a lot of use by thru-hikers. By autumn, there's not very many people out hiking.

I can imagine a hunter driving up that dirt road and then walking a short connector to get on the Appy Trail. Later, he might drive back down and come out right at the Caldwell Fields parking area. Hmm, is there any chance he might've had an illegal game kill with him and been confronted by the couple?

By the way, horses are not allowed on the Appalachian Trail. Neither are bicycles or motorized vehicles. I have run into bikes once, though. The trail does often intersect other trails. I hiked one trail to get to the Appy and ran into horses on that trail. The only place I've seen horses on the Appy Trail is in Grayson Highlands where ponies live in the wild.

The trail does often intersect other trails. I hiked one trail to get to the Appy and ran into horses on that trail. The only place I've seen horses on the Appy Trail is in Grayson Highlands where ponies live in the wild.

Thank you for the inofrmation. Aprreciate it very very much. I would like to ask you a question since you have walked the appy and these other trails that can lead into the appy.

I dont know about the wildlife around there. But when your out hiking the trails especially the first few times, were you made aware of any wildlife that you should be aware of? Did you recieve any warnings about a possible encounter with wildlife and what should you do incase you came face to face with such a warning? Were you given any precautions about encountering any aggressive animals while you were hiking.

 

[:+:MrTT:+:]

That purple spot. is that the crime scene?..........On Satellite with zoom at maximum there is a road/trail that leads up and splits into a fork, the one looks like a dead end, and the other leads toward the branches. Muddy branch, sandy branch. What are this places?

I am thinking/guessing that the killer came down that trail/road(or trail adjacent to the main one) that goes north from 621 from the purple spot which on zoom I see is the crime scene where they were parked and found. And went back up that road after the murders........One split road leads to an dead end i think. the other as posted leads towards the branches.


I believe for now the killer was staying/working/living right there in that area. And killed these young persons for really no other reason than to kill them and get away with it. Which for now they have. A thrill kill. They were in the wrong place and the wrong time. Not premeditated, since the killer would have to have known they were be there at this particular time and place to wait for them, so to me it was random and decided to kill them when they arrived at the spot. The killer was already in the area, when they arrived. And decided to shot and kill them for the fun of it. Though I am just guessing on everything. But your information and visual aids have been outstanding. Thank you for posting.

afterthought....
I am almost certain this was a thrill kill. I think he was shot first, and she became totally petrified to what happened. She was in hysterics. Totally numb and mentally and emotionally gone from what happened. I don't think she ran at all. She knew death was coming and could not think a simple thought as to what to do. I think she simply opened the door and just started to walk away knowing her fate. He got off on that. The horror he had produced. And then he shot and killed her. This could have been a one time thing. And never has killed again. From cases I read before the age i would look for would be 17/18 to around 25 but a young person. Probably single living alone either living or working in the area at the time. May have moved on since then. A loner type that would not tell anyone about there thrill kill. But something they relive everyday.....................

They may catch him eventually. And I hope they do. But if and when they do, he will never experiece the horror that she felt and experience on that night.

 

[cluciano63]

The DNA is curious...it makes sense in a sexual assault or revenge/personal killing but does not fit as well with any kind of a theory where they "saw something they should not have" or we just randomly shot in a "thrill kill" as there would be no need to touch anything, or anyone, in those types of crimes. To me, it seems most likely if there was an assault, most likely on Heidi. But I guess I need to review to see what if anything was stolen, as they could have left DNA on or inside the car if a robbery, though it would be more difficult to determine what came from the crime, vs incidental contact by others who were in car prior. Jmo

Ok I see her purse was stolen...still not sure how that could be a DNA source if the entire thing was taken. Just thinking aloud.

 

[:+:MrTT:+:]

The DNA is curious...it makes sense in a sexual assault or revenge/personal killing but does not fit as well with any kind of a theory where they "saw something they should not have" or we just randomly shot in a "thrill kill" as there would be no need to touch anything, or anyone, in those types of crimes. To me, it seems most likely if there was an assault, most likely on Heidi. But I guess I need to review to see what if anything was stolen, as they could have left DNA on or inside the car if a robbery, though it would be more difficult to determine what came from the crime, vs incidental contact by others who were in car prior. Jmo

Ok I see her purse was stolen...still not such how that could be a DNA source if the entire thing was taken. Just thinking aloud.

You make some valid points. As we know they have not release all the information. If she was assaulted seems they would release that. Many cases release that information but not this one. And the taking of the purse if it was actually taken throws another motive into the theories. Was the motive robbery, a sexual assault combination of both or something else.

One question I have been looking for the answer I still have not found.
They say they went there to play there guitars?...........But yet I have not found if the guitars were still there or if they were missing? Or did they even take them to the site which i assumed they did since it was reported that is why they were going there............Some assume they were killed upon arriving, but they may had made it out of the car at some point. Perhaps they did exited the vehicle and for whatever reason they returned to the vehicle and was shot at that point.................We just don't know.

And what about his wallet? We assume he was driving so he must had have his license on him. Have not heard if it was missing or not.
If robbery was a motive seems the purse, guitars and his wallet would have been taken.

The killer didn't know about the purse to take until after the facts. It could have been a souvenir, or to through off the LEOS making it appear that robbery was the motive. I don't think she was sexual assaulted, so the DNA came from another source but just guessing.

Would like to see the crime scene photos. But we know that is not going to happen.