GUILTY VA - Noah Thomas, 5, Pulaski County, 22 March 2015 #2

[YidArmyRach]

Was there any mentioned on the time line was between the mom waking up from her nap- discovering Noah was missing- then calling 911..

If I am remembering correctly, from the first time line - the one where mum woke up around 9.30am and he was still watching tv, then she woke up again around 10 - 10.30am and he was missing - I think the call to LE was made around half an hour later.

Then the timeline changed to there being no mid-nap wake up (so around 3 hours of sleeping), so I'm not sure what timings are accurate any longer.

 

[DeeMarie]

The timeline I read was that she woke up around 10:35 and she called LE at 11, after searching for awhile herself and LE was onsight nearly immediately.

Timeline (for my thought process)

Around 8 or 8:15 a.m Noah was last seen on Sunday morning watching cartoons by his mother. His mother then went to take a nap with their infant child.
9.30am mom wakes up and sees that Noah is still watching TV. Mom goes back to bed. (maybe/maybe not)
10:35 a.m mom wakes up to find Noah missing.
11:00 a.m mom calls LE

 

[Sweetgrits]

Would an un-used, abandoned septic need to be pumped? Highly doubtful.

Slighty O/T but not really, I really just need to say THANK YOU once again to WS running a tight ship here about rumors. As I was trying to get caught up here this evening I saw the references to them on SM but I chose not to click and read the nasties. I'm so glad they're not allowed here.

. :yeahthat:

 

[SeriouslySearching]

No not offended at all, didn't mean to imply that. Just curious. And I didn't mean to imply they were common occurrences, no doubt it is rare in the wider scheme of things. I guess my point is it isn't outside the realm of possibility, and the articles do show it's happened before and why. I talked about this with a friend today and we both remember cases of kids falling in these things. Maybe the stories just stuck with me because so many of my relatives lived in rural areas and had them.

I have seen a few cases involving septic tanks and children (accidental drownings) and I believe we have a couple of those horrific cases on WS. I don't know why they are not showing up on Google search, but I do know it has happened more often than people realize and children have died by falling into them on their own. Rural America has 100 year old cisterns and septic tanks dotted across the countryside. Granted, the newer ones are less likely to cave in or be easy to open. Maybe we aren't talking about a new one here. Hard to tell, but maybe someone could tell me how large the openings are on the newer ones and if a stocky little fella like Noah could easily fit into one with his bulky jacket on.

 

[Sweetgrits]

Not sure why the dogs went to the road though. Very unfortunate.

I don't know how the dogs work but if Noah was up earlier Sun and went out to the car, wouldn't that have left a scent? And how would they be able what time the scent was generated?

 

[Sweetgrits]

The difference is, thought, she'd have noticed he was missing within minutes ...... rather than hours.

No snark, just wondering if you have children? I ask because several have shared in this thread how overwhelming it is to have 2 small kids (so have I) and I can tell you I've done this several times. Again, asked respectfully.

 

[DeeMarie]

I don't know how the dogs work but if Noah was up earlier Sun and went out to the car, wouldn't that have left a scent? And how would they be able what time the scent was generated?

Could the depth of the septic tank along with the water in it throw the sent off for the dogs?-just wondering out loud.

I am still confused about the fact that since everyone has a septic tank in the neighborhood -therefore common knowledge that they also had a septic tank- why the septic tank was not checked right away??

Also would they have not found the top of the septic tank disturbed/lose dirt? This is all so puzzling..

 

[Starry Night]

How do you post a Blue Ribbon for Noah and LE? Let's do that tonight. For love and support.

 

[iamnotagolem]

No snark, just wondering if you have children? I ask because several have shared in this thread how overwhelming it is to have 2 small kids (so have I) and I can tell you I've done this several times. Again, asked respectfully.

I know this isn't directed to me, but I have 2 little ones who are 19 months apart. I don't/didn't nap if they were awake. I did fall asleep in an airplane when they were 11 months and 30 months, I woke up in a sheer panic even though I was holding one and the other was in a window seat. I was terrified that one would be missing.

But after reading here and on SM, it seems it's pretty common to nap and leave children to their own devices.

 

[TieDyeJedi]

Would an un-used, abandoned septic need to be pumped? Highly doubtful.

The one we had removed from our yard did prior to removal, as it had gotten to the point where rainwater and sludge was able to seep into it. A very, very old one in really bad shape could likely need it.

Now, to be fair - do I believe that this is the case? That it's an old, unused one nobody knew about, and it happened to cave or have a hole down to it, partially hidden that was overlooked? No. I'm an eternal pessimist. However, I figured it doesn't hurt to point out something that could be a one in a million freak occurrance. From a few years lurking here I've definitely seen a lot of 'stranger things', haha.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

I don't believe he fell into the septic tank.I could be wrong though.I hope they say what the autopsy states what happened to him.

I am trying to keep an open mind to the possibility it was an accidental drowning since no one has been arrested. It is difficult because it does make more logical sense someone placed him in there in order to hide his body.

I am relatively sure they will offer some preliminary autopsy results, but I am not expecting anything other than the Manner Of Death not Cause Of Death. I think they will wait the full 7-8 weeks for the tox screen results.

 

[Sweetgrits]

I know this isn't directed to me, but I have 2 little ones who are 19 months apart. I don't/didn't nap if they were awake. I did fall asleep in an airplane when they were 11 months and 30 months, I woke up in a sheer panic even though I was holding one and the other was in a window seat. I was terrified that one would be missing.

But after reading here and on SM, it seems it's pretty common to nap and leave children to their own devices.

No it was not directed at you and wasn't meant to disrespect anyone. It was just a curious question

 

[Sweetgrits]

I am trying to keep an open mind to the possibility it was an accidental drowning since no one has been arrested. It is difficult because it does make more logical sense someone placed him in there in order to hide his body.

I am relatively sure they will offer some preliminary autopsy results, but I am not expecting anything other than the Manner Of Death not Cause Of Death. I think they will wait the full 7-8 weeks for the tox screen results.

BBM It just seems so unbelievable that anyone would think to hide a body in a septic tank and especially a family member. I'm still praying for an accident.

 

[Starry Night]

I've never done this before so I hope it is ok

 

[SeriouslySearching]

I know this isn't directed to me, but I have 2 little ones who are 19 months apart. I don't/didn't nap if they were awake. I did fall asleep in an airplane when they were 11 months and 30 months, I woke up in a sheer panic even though I was holding one and the other was in a window seat. I was terrified that one would be missing.

But after reading here and on SM, it seems it's pretty common to nap and leave children to their own devices.

Someone needs to start a service for sleep deprived mommies. Someone to call for an hour or so to allow for a safe nap at a very reduced price. Sounds like a good program for church ladies or other groups to offer up to new mothers.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

View attachment 71736


I've never done this before so I hope it is ok

Good job! The ribbon is lovely.

 

[Sweetgrits]

View attachment 71736


I've never done this before so I hope it is ok

Thank you

 

[TieDyeJedi]

BBM It just seems so unbelievable that anyone would think to hide a body in a septic tank and especially a family member. I'm still praying for an accident.

I feel this way about it, sort of. I do believe people would think to hide a body there, but I feel like it would have to be more premeditated than the timeline would allow - or done with help. I doubt I would be able to lift a standard above-ground septic tank lid by myself. When I start thinking about that, and about how if the lid is buried underground - how much effort and time it may have taken to access it to place him there - I start questioning foul play and move back to freak accident.

I do believe that if it were a freak accident, that this is not an in-use tank and that's probably why it was originally not searched or overlooked. Probably was partially obscured by a building or something; legal or not to put something on top, that sort of thing does happen.

 

[Starry Night]

Good job! The ribbon is lovely.

You don't have to placate me you know-just cuz I'm being bullish (lol). I will get off my high horse. My heartbroken one.

 

[Sparky]

I don't know what the law is in VA regarding abandoned septic tanks, but here in my county in FL it's law they must be drained and destroyed. Whether a hole is drilled in the bottom so it doesn't hold liquid, or the bottom and sides busted up. My hubby and I just went over this with he county last week, as we are getting ready to have a new septic installed. The old one is concrete, about three feet out of the ground and I couldn't even open it. The new one will also be concrete and will be buried. Permits have to be pulled for the old well and inspection done to make sure we've destroyed it.

It's also against the law to have more than one house hooked up to the septic and depending on how many bedrooms the home has, establishes what size septic you'll need.

Spoke to the septic company yesterday and the concrete ones last about 20 yrs. They also have plastic ones and I was informed they are flimsy and the septic company won't even use them. HTH