Verdict: GUILTY!

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impatientredhead said:
And I don't get the can two people be guilty of sexual assault if _____ question from the jury. They are suppose to be deciding if he is guilty of the charge. It isn't relevant whether one, two or a dozen other people can be charged with her sexual assault. They aren't on trial today, he is.
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I was nervous about how they phrased the question the first time - I read it as "If TLM removed her clothes, would MTR be guilty". The judge seemed to say "no, only the principal" then "depends on what he's doing", then "wait - rephrase the question".

The way they phrased it the second time makes me think think that they have accepted the crown's assertion that they were working together. The answer couldn't have been clearer - both parties would be guilty.

Cautious hope...I believe this was the part of the charge least substantiated by evidence other than TLM's statement. Thanks in no small part to Rafferty's refusal to help lead LE to her remains. I'm very glad the judge gave such specific guidance regarding the lack of clothing.

Not to toot our own horn, but we discussed this very issue extensively, and came to the same conclusion as the judge directed - to forcibly remove clothing is sexual assault as certainly as rape is sexual assault.

As angry as I am with 'His Honour', I believe the judge wants him put away as badly as we all do.
 
#Rafferty's lawyer, Dirk Derstine, said there is no way of knowing what the questions mean or how deliberations are going


I'll be back @ 7:00 {{{{ HUGS to EVERYONE }}}}

Praying: JUSTICE for Tori------->Tonight
 
After 3 + years of following the Casey Anthony trial and knowing 100% she was guilty I am so nervous right now. I don't think I can handle another not guilty verdict... especially knowing what the jury DOESN'T!
 
Has anyone had a good look at the Decision Tree, to try and decipher where they are?
 
Wondergirl said:
As we know, Victoria was found without her bottom clothes on.

Therefore, it certainly seems as if the Jury was looking for confirmation that because of that fact, they could infer a sexual assault took place.

This is good.
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WG - as I read it, they don't have to infer anything. Even better - no reasonable doubt.

Stripping someone of their clothes is a violent act in itself, in that it leaves you vulnerable and exposed. If the jury accepts that they stripped her before her death, then sexual assault is proved, regardless of whether it went further than that.

I'm hopeful this is a good sign.
 
Your explanations have actually encouraged me!

It seems that if they rephrased the question to ask if it would be sexual assault by both if the child was kidnapped, that suggests they've accepted his participation in the kidnapping. One guilty verdict.

Then the judge's answer makes it clear that no matter which of them removed her clothes, both are guilty of sexual assault. Guilty on another count.

Surely after these two they'll have to go for guilty of murder as well.

I hope.

Tink
 
Don't know why but I'm thinking Yes on the rape charge, Yes on the abduction charge but a lesser on 1st degree because they believe TLM did it or shall I say there's reasonable doubt we shall see...still gives him 25 years though and in maximum prison which is fine by me
 
Okay, now this is absolutely bizarre !!! One of my chores was to go outside to do poo patrol. People give me plastic bags as I go through a lot of them. I grabbed a bag to line the bucket (it is from a liquor store in Vancouver where i do not live). As i shook the bag to open it, what do i find in the bottom of the bag .... a purple balloon !!! I have never had a purple balloon in my house in my lifetime that I am aware of.
 
sillybilly said:
Okay, now this is absolutely bizarre !!! One of my chores was to go outside to do poo patrol. People give me plastic bags as I go through a lot of them. I grabbed a bag to line the bucket (it is from a liquor store in Vancouver where i do not live). As i shook the bag to open it, what do i find in the bottom of the bag .... a purple balloon !!! I have never had a purple balloon in my house in my lifetime that I am aware of.
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Tis a sign sillybilly .. tis a sign and a good one!
 
Wondergirl said:
Has anyone had a good look at the Decision Tree, to try and decipher where they are?
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Yes, I have and I think they are headed down the aiding and abetting and headed towards the first degree murder charge ... just moo of course.
 
Anyway you look at those trees, whether it's Principal, Supplemental or Aider/Abettor, you always end up at Guilty if you agree he was part of the kidnapping.

Bye-Bye
 
elepher50 said:
Tis a sign sillybilly .. tis a sign and a good one!
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I hope so elepher. I'm a pretty steely old coot, and can usually steel myself against a lot of things. But earlier this afternoon, I said one of the biggest prayers of my life for the right verdict for Tori ... both the butterflies and balloon happened afterwards. I can't stop crying and I just feel overwhelmed.
 
Confusedashell said:
Well now that everything of MRs past is out of the closet I am going to come out as well. I am one of the victims of MR. I was one of the women on the stand. This is one of the hardest things I have ever had to do. Reading all that stuff about him last night made me sick as I am sure it did everyone who read it. I at the time we dated had a little girl 3 years of age. I am so very thankful that neither of us were hurt in anyway. I pray for little Tori and hope to god for justice for her and her family. Through this I have become quite close with Tara. She is such a great lady. She has been amazing and I truly commend her for her strength.
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My heart goes out to you, nothing i can say will ever take away the pain you must feel. My thoughts will will always be with you! Thank you!

I had to go downtown this afternoon and made a special stop for Tori right by the court house. I looked to the skys and asked that justice is brought to Tori and that MR is found guilty, grrr im crying again.. my heart is just torn up
 
I can look at all three trees over and over again and I always end at guilty of 1st degree murder. And that without the stuff we heard last evening.
 
Oldsoul2 said:
Don't know why but I'm thinking Yes on the rape charge, Yes on the abduction charge but a lesser on 1st degree because they believe TLM did it or shall I say there's reasonable doubt we shall see...still gives him 25 years though and in maximum prison which is fine by me
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This is why Derstine wanted the 2nd degree and manslaughter charges added; he was hoping that if the jurors were having a hard time with the 1st degree, they could go with one of the lesser charges, so maybe that is what the jurors are dealing with, so hard to say. I still believe they should go with 1st as he was no innocent dupe, but the evil planner and Tori was killed while in their custody. Either deliberate or accidental death is 1st degree murder. AND by MR stopping at HD for TLM to purchase the murder weapon and MR giving her the money it's pretty clear he planned it. AND to add more salt to the wound, all the things TLM said MR said, "you know I'm going to F&^% her right?" and "we can't keep her and we can't take her back". To me that's huge and here's hoping the believe the majority of TLM's testimony. MOO
 
mofo75ca said:
After 3 + years of following the Casey Anthony trial and knowing 100% she was guilty I am so nervous right now. I don't think I can handle another not guilty verdict... especially knowing what the jury DOESN'T!
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Welcome. We are all crazy right now so jump in lol
 
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