Verdict Watch 05/03/2013

[uklady]

Yes, very very angry! I won't be surprised to hear about her getting into trouble while in prison.

One thing I fear, and believe she's totally capable of, is attempting to harm those she hates, from prison. There've been many cases of prisoners trying to hire a hit person to take someone out.

Yes I believe she is very angry. If you watch any of the trial on YT check out the videos of the closing arguement, well JMs rebuttal before choosing of jurors. Depending whose video you watch there is a brief moment at around either 53:50 or 55:30 where JA draws her thumb across her throat in a throat cutting motion. Its done quickly and slyly but its not the first time she has done things when she thinks no one can see.

 

[Hatfield]

And those "older folks" probably grew up in the 60s-70s! They may be a lot more experienced, adventurous and open-minded than one thinks! :blushing:

I agree.
My dear Gram has passed now, but she was a "HOOT". She would watch her "stories" (soap operas) religiously and she was an expert on who was having sex with who in General Hospital. :floorlaugh:

 

[Boodles]

Just throwing this out because I cannot wrap my head around the things Nurmi said in his closing. Could it be that he really does hate JA and wants the jury to vote for the DP? I want to think he made all the errors and threw out all the known lies to give them that chance.

My theory is that because JA is so hateful, Nurmi is acknowledging this and trying to "get in good" with the jurors by validating that he, too, dislikes her. It's just a ploy to get the jury more bonded to Nurmi so they might buy his statements. That's all it is.

That said, I believe he does dislike her. But no lawyer wants to lose his case.. (But, hmmmm...could this be a first?)

 

[kaydono]

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - a view from the inside: observations from our own court observers #8

This is the guide, as to what happens next in the trial, compliments of KCL, who got the information from Beth Karas.

I hope I did this right, if not, please accept my apologies.

 

[gcharlie]

I have often wondered how jurors cope when they go home, learn what we know, and then go on with their lives. Does it stick with them?

I watched Juan Martinez live but I swear every five minutes the phone rang or someone came to the door. I had no idea I had such a full life!

I had to detach some because it is just too easy for me to slip back to reliving my own experience with my son's death and my father's as well. People get away with murder quite often, apparently.

One thing I have noticed is that Jodi must have been extremely jealous of the love and admiration Travis Alexander had earned. He was the real deal, a person trying to be better, a person with compassion for others. Over years he had accumulated friends who all loved him dearly, who were not afraid of him. His friends didn't violate each other's privacy.

He lived in a world that Jodi Arias could NOT be part of-- because of her lack of character. It became really obvious, even to him, that he could do much better because she was a fake Mormon, a fake photographer, a fake Law of Attraction believer....after all, isn't she about to attract the Death Penalty????

She scammed Travis. Meaning, imo, when he said he was finally really through with her, he went to his finances and realized that the advances in commissions he had been giving her were against PPL sales which she never made. The names were bogus, etc, something like that.

I got this idea from his threat to tell Chris and Skye, who were her upline. Why tell them instead of the bishop? Because it was a PPL scam where she used her information she snooped to enter his PPL account and transfer his sales to herself, and he found out she had been doing whatever it was for some time.

And Travis was such a kind person he didn't immediately call the police or call Chris himself. He tried to use the info to get her to leave him alone. Maybe he knew how useless restraining orders can be with seriously crazy violent people.

Also, I'll bet she threatened him physically, something like, "You don't know who you are dealing with - you will regret this, Travis, I promise you. You can mark my words, if you are still alive."

That would be a provocation for his fear of her (in addition to the stalking).

Anagrammy

Anagrammy, you have come up with something that is highly credible in terms of explaining that volatile text from Travis on 5/26.

FWIW, here is a link to the LegalShield Success Guide: https://www.prepaidlegal.com/pdf/21301.pdf

In Travis's texts of 4/7 and 5/10, he gave the reason(s) he was upset with JA. The 5/26 text continues to be a mystery...even his good friend the Hughes cannot figure out what led to his response after reading all of the emails between TA and JA. Many have speculated that it had to do with her attempting to blackmail him with the sex tapes. We saw her reaction before the tapes were played in court; it seems that the DT planned on playing only Travis's voice for the jury, but JSS ruled that the tape be played in its entirety. JA came out of that meeting in chambers clearly upset, in fact it was probably the only time in court where real tears were shed. Which leads me to believe that whatever scam Travis discovered, it did not have to do with this tape.

PPL was a gateway for JA during her relationship with Travis from both a career and social perspective. It was something upon which she could build a future. If she had been scamming him here, his revealing the situation would ended any working relationship with PPL and more importantly would have exposed her for what she was. With her personality disorder, the shame would have been unbearable. Taking an excerpt from http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/stop-walking-eggshells/201201/shame-is-the-root-narcissistic-borderline-personality-disorders one BPD patient under treatment explained "Shame feels scary, like you are exposed to the world--and not just a naked kind of exposed. It's an eviscerated, everyone-can-see-your innards kind of exposed. If someone has brought me shame, I used to go into a fight or flight response just out of the pure terror of the situation. It's an unbelievably cruel and unnecessary thing to do to me, and if you do it, you are a very evil, hateful person and I need to take you down. It was one of the few things that could make me self-conscious and could puncture my Shell."

Looking at the partial information currently available, there is an escalation shown in the communications between Travis and JA from April through May. We do know there was a long phone conversation between JA and Travis in the early hours of June 2; it would stand to reason that this was an extension of the 5/26 incident.

Because of the tumultuous and dysfunctional relationship between these two individuals, common sense cannot be applied to understand events, especially during those last few months. Common sense would lead one to believe that Travis would not willingly engage in sexual activity with JA on 6/4; the truth will never be known about this aspect. Looking at the faces of both JA and Travis in those 6/4 nekked pix, their facial expressions are slack and without any clearly recognizable emotion.

Travis's body and the crime scene do provide the jury with enough information upon which to reach a verdict, however if the juror is like most of us, they will want to understand how and why this happened. Unfortunately those questions most likely will never bee answered.

 

[cubbeegirl]

I missed the feed that included the jury selection yesterday, I live in a rural area and my livestream kept cutting out...does anyone know if it is posted anywhere? TYIA

 

[dani]

Can you tell us (me, me! lol) more about your experience during deliberations. What did you do when you got in the room? How long did it take to choose a fore person? Etc, etc?

When we first got to the jury room there was an "ice breaking" period, maybe 30 minutes. (This was the 1st time we had been able to have more than "small talk" with each other since the trial began 2 weeks before.) Besides, the bailiffs were coming in and out of the jury room with evidence packets, transcripts, coffee carafes and ice chests with sodas. They also explained to us the meal breaks and bathroom breaks (escorted…ugh).

Once we were alone we elected our foreman. The choice was rather obvious after 2 weeks of lunches together. The stronger personalities with leadership qualities stood out. There was some paperwork to fill out about who our foreman was, etc.

Then we had a vote for guilty or innocent by a raise of hands. (This was the only time we didn't have a secret ballot.) If I recall there were 8 guilty, 4 innocent votes. The "innocents" spoke about their reasons why. Then the "guilties" tried to show them the "error of their ways" with evidence, transcripts, and good old common sense. At first it was normal conversation, but by the 2nd day of deliberations there were some pretty heated debates, and yes, some seriously "raised voices".

Every so often there was a secret ballot to see where we were. We never openly asked who had come on board with a guilty vote, but you could tell by how the conversation went and you could almost SEE the light bulb come on. This went on for 3 days and evenings, interspaced with boxed lunches and restaurant dinners until we had a unanimous secret ballot …and a great lobster dinner courtesy of the taxpayers of Ventura County, California.

Ours was not a murder case, so there was no deliberations on "degrees of guilt".

The fact that Jodi's jury went home in 55 minutes makes me think they only got as far as electing a foreperson. But I'm encouraged by KCL saying Juan says, "Come back for the verdict on Monday". His 25+ years of experience trumps my Magic 8 Ball.:drumroll:

 

[kaRN]

I believe that comes in during the sentencing phase. Lawyers?

Not a lawyer but I read on the last thread a link that described the process. If found guilty the state puts on a case to prove she's met the aggravating factors required to ask for the DP and the jury votes yes or no to that. If yes, the DT presents a case for mitigation and..........I'm going to search my history for the link. She's sentenced at the very end.

 

[minazoe]

Jodi Arias ‏@Jodiannarias 8h
Hypocrisy bugs. Wish we could shine a spotlight on all of Juan's lies,lies he's made on record over the years in a court of law.


jodi tweeted this??? omg...i cant understand how she can do this...she is stalking the alexander family and tormentng them via the interet???how is this possible on a murder one rap??

i know, i know no precedent...watever...they need to put a stop this pronto.

 

[Sleuth13]

I know this came up yesterday, but I am nervous because Jean C on HLN said some of the male jurors seemed to be connecting with Nurmi, very attentive and taking notes in the part talking about why premidation didn't make sense. Also I think Wildaboutrial also tweeted the same thing. I know I"m prob reading too much into this, but it just got me very worried. Nurmi did have a good way of talking during the closing, but hopefully that won't affect the jurors' thinking.

Anytime you get worried go back and read posts from KCL or PASA in the observation threads. I did last night and feel so much better!! (and I trust our gals over the talking heads any day!!!!)

 

[Ranchgirl]

I was thinking it was a reference to ALV being gay? I can't recall what made me think that. Don't know what difference that makes but I found it odd that they both addressed it.

Some of the other blogs ran wild with KN's hair and ALV's sexual orientation. Which is why I read WS...intelligent conversation with out all the name calling. I think KN did the best he could do....the bashing of TA way over the top, however, and not necessary..BIG mistake on his part.

 

[kaydono]

I have often wondered how jurors cope when they go home, learn what we know, and then go on with their lives. Does it stick with them?

I watched Juan Martinez live but I swear every five minutes the phone rang or someone came to the door. I had no idea I had such a full life!

I had to detach some because it is just too easy for me to slip back to reliving my own experience with my son's death and my father's as well. People get away with murder quite often, apparently.

One thing I have noticed is that Jodi must have been extremely jealous of the love and admiration Travis Alexander had earned. He was the real deal, a person trying to be better, a person with compassion for others. Over years he had accumulated friends who all loved him dearly, who were not afraid of him. His friends didn't violate each other's privacy.

He lived in a world that Jodi Arias could NOT be part of-- because of her lack of character. It became really obvious, even to him, that he could do much better because she was a fake Mormon, a fake photographer, a fake Law of Attraction believer....after all, isn't she about to attract the Death Penalty????

She scammed Travis. Meaning, imo, when he said he was finally really through with her, he went to his finances and realized that the advances in commissions he had been giving her were against PPL sales which she never made. The names were bogus, etc, something like that.

I got this idea from his threat to tell Chris and Skye, who were her upline. Why tell them instead of the bishop? Because it was a PPL scam where she used her information she snooped to enter his PPL account and transfer his sales to herself, and he found out she had been doing whatever it was for some time.

And Travis was such a kind person he didn't immediately call the police or call Chris himself. He tried to use the info to get her to leave him alone. Maybe he knew how useless restraining orders can be with seriously crazy violent people.

Also, I'll bet she threatened him physically, something like, "You don't know who you are dealing with - you will regret this, Travis, I promise you. You can mark my words, if you are still alive."

That would be a provocation for his fear of her (in addition to the stalking).

Anagrammy

That makes so much sense. You are onto something. WOW!!!

 

[minazoe]

also I can't beleive Nurmi expects the jury to belive that that litte tuft of yarn on the stairs is rope.

get of here..

 

[HarvestMoon]

I am still just shaking my head at the time and expense spent pounding on DV only to hear - at the almost literal eleventh hour - 'whoops! Our bad! It was really heat of the moment.' WTF? Seriously. Just wtf?

Yup $2,000,000 plus and a change of plea at the 11.5 hour. What- a- sham.

 

[SCSam]

THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I THINK!!!! 'let the water hit your face....yeah, like that.' and BOOM, she stabs him. makes perfect sense to me.

I'm one of those who think the way Dr. Drew said, "I just can't go there". I totally think she did her own PSYCHO shower scene.. and believe she may have held gun on him to make him pose. Does anyone see the SLIGHTEST glimmer of a smile on his face in any of those photos? No way this was a "fun" time using his own new camera.

 

[makayla]

Yes I believe she is very angry. If you watch any of the trial on YT check out the videos of the closing arguement, well JMs rebuttal before choosing of jurors. Depending whose video you watch there is a brief moment at around either 53:50 or 55:30 where JA draws her thumb across her throat in a throat cutting motion. Its done quickly and slyly but its not the first time she has done things when she thinks no one can see.

Oh, I really noticed that move of hers - creepy!

 

[kscornfed]

I may be in the minority but Travis looks under duress in that last photo. His look is part fear- part disgust imo, but more than simply "hurry up and finish" to me. I don't think most men would willingly fold themselves up and sit down on the shower drain by choice.

that picture will be discussed for years to come. i don't see fear. he just looks tired to me---maybe irritated. if i'm looking at a knife or a gun, my mouth is open, my eyes are big, my eyebrows are up. to me, that's fear.

bottom line, we'll never know what was going on in that picture, unfortunately. we just know he only had a couple of minutes left to live, which is chilling all by itself.

edited to add: i think he was freaked out that whole day, because she just showed up and he had no idea she was coming. i think he WAS under some duress because he realized once and for all she was potentially dangerous even living 1000 miles away. i don't think he's happy in that picture. i think he just wants to go along with it and get the nut job out of his house----and that didn't happen.

 

[Nali87]

When we first got to the jury room there was an "ice breaking" period, maybe 30 minutes. (This was the 1st time we had been able to have more than "small talk" with each other since the trial began 2 weeks before.) Besides, the bailiffs were coming in and out of the jury room with evidence packets, transcripts, coffee carafes and ice chests with sodas. They also explained to us the meal breaks and bathroom breaks (escorted…ugh).

Once we were alone we elected our foreman. The choice was rather obvious after 2 weeks of lunches together. The stronger personalities with leadership qualities stood out. There was some paperwork to fill out about who our foreman was, etc.

Then we had a vote for guilty or innocent by a raise of hands. (This was the only time we didn't have a secret ballot.) If I recall there were 8 guilty, 4 innocent votes. The "innocents" spoke about their reasons why. Then the "guilties" tried to show them the "error of their ways" with evidence, transcripts, and good old common sense. At first it was normal conversation, but by the 2nd day of deliberations there were some pretty heated debates, and yes, some seriously "raised voices".

Every so often there was a secret ballot to see where we were. We never openly asked who had come on board with a guilty vote, but you could tell by how the conversation went and you could almost SEE the light bulb come on. This went on for 3 days and evenings, interspaced with boxed lunches and restaurant dinners until we had a unanimous secret ballot …and a great lobster dinner courtesy of the taxpayers of Ventura County, California.

Ours was not a murder case, so there was no deliberations on "degrees of guilt".

The fact that Jodi's jury went home in 55 minutes makes me think they only got as far as electing a foreperson. But I'm encouraged by KCL saying Juan says, "Come back for the verdict on Monday". His 25+ years of experience trumps my Magic 8 Ball.:drumroll:

Thank you! Add to BBM, toiletbreaks before they got the jury room could add up to 50 minutes. I secretly hope they didn't even deliberate at all. And if they did a vote is it too optimistic to me to hope it was 12-0? But if that had been the case, they would've just announced it right? Sigh, this waiting SUCKS! :scared:

 

[raisincharlie]

I may be in the minority but Travis looks under duress in that last photo. His look is part fear- part disgust imo, but more than simply "hurry up and finish" to me. I don't think most men would willingly fold themselves up and sit down on the shower drain by choice.

I agree with you DebinGA - that look is not one of a happy fellow. I just keep hearing his discription of the armed robbery (the video the judge did not allow the sound to) while the feline killer is occupying his space. Seems very similar to his description during that video.

 

[Linda7NJ]

First

......I couldn't sleep last night.... I can't even imagine the jurors. To be so close and still not being about to discuss it with anyone. What a burden.


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