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I wonder if Millard will be charged for that shiv and possession of a knife and marijuana while in jail.

I think there's so many charges this guy could have against him right now. I don't know if they will charge him with everything but I think that if he ever tries to appeal
his case it won't go through, he's sealing his own fate IMO
 
There's your problem right there. You are only buying in to what can be proven beyond a doubt. But the crown has proved beyond reasonable doubt that Smich did know about the plan to kill TB but you want it to be "beyond a doubt".
I stated quite clearly that IMOO "the crown has not proven the case against MS beyond a reasonable doubt as it has with DM. I further went on to say that again, MOO What is proven beyond a doubt was that he was with DM that night and helped clean up, everything else is ones own perception and conjecture of the facts.

I believe it is reasonable to question the conflicting testimony of AM & MH regarding the "thing" and have reasonable doubt about MS's knowledge of and expectations regarding the gun MOOOOOOOO
 


Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 5m5 minutes ago
Jury is being brought into the courtroom at the Tim #Bosma murder trial. They have requested to listen to testimony from Matt Hagerman.

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 6m6 minutes ago
Back in the courtroom. Jury is being brought back in to replay them bits of Matt Hagerman's testimony (as per their Q yesterday). #Bosma

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 5m5 minutes ago
The jury will be reviewing segments of Matt Hagerman's testimony this morning.

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 5m5 minutes ago
Now in the courtroom, waiting on Justice Goodman. #TimBosma #Bosma #HamOnt #sc

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 5m5 minutes ago
#Bosma jury coming in soon to review Hagerman evidence, as they requested last night
 
Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 5m5 minutes ago
I've been told we will be in court for 60 to 90 minutes this morning. #Bosma
 
molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 5m5 minutes ago
First clip they're hearing is from April 6. #Bosma

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 5m5 minutes ago
They're going to play the recording now. It's going to take over an hour. #TimBosma #Bosma

Alex Pierson ‏@AlexpiersonAMP 5m5 minutes ago
Jury being brought in to hear matt Hagerman testimony involving Andrew Michalski. @AM900CHML


 
Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 6m6 minutes ago
#Bosma jury is here. This will take about an hour, they're told. Starting with evidence from April 6

Alex Pierson ‏@AlexpiersonAMP 6m6 minutes ago
This is a recording being played from April 6-2016 @AM900CHML

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 6m6 minutes ago
Justice Goodman is telling jury he has "isolated segments" of Hagerman's testimony. Beginning with April 6. #Bosma

Colin Butler ‏@ColinButlerCBC 5m5 minutes ago
Jury here. It's going to take an hour to review Matt Hagerman's testimony in regards to what the jury wanted last night. #TimBosma

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 5m5 minutes ago
The first testimony comes from April 6. #TimBosma #Bosma #HamOnt

 
Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 5m5 minutes ago
I've been told we will be in court for 60 to 90 minutes this morning. #Bosma

Hopefully we'll hear it all again too. I feel like we missed information through the tweets.
 
It is so important that they are seeing these segments. But, this whole process has to be beyond exhausting. My thoughts are with the members of the jury who have to wade through all of this evidence and make some hard decisions.
 
Colin Butler ‏@ColinButlerCBC 7m7 minutes ago
Hagerman said Millard wanted him to hold onto something, nothing too big, just a couple of toys as a favour. #TimBosma

Alex Pierson ‏@AlexpiersonAMP 7m7 minutes ago
but that he asked if everything was ok. And that Millard was feeling heat. not serious. nothing big. Just need u to hold onto things.

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 7m7 minutes ago
This is Crown Craig Fraser doing exam-in-chief of Hagerman. Text from Hagerman to Millard asks what toys he's talking of, so he can prepare.

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 6m6 minutes ago
Sorry, Hagerman

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 6m6 minutes ago
We're starting with Hagerman's examination in chief, by Crown Craig Fraser. He's asking about the tests he got from Millard #Bosma #TimBosma

Colin Butler ‏@ColinButlerCBC 6m6 minutes ago
Now listening to Crown lawyer Craig Fraser question Matt Hagerman in the witness box back in April. #TimBosma

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 5m5 minutes ago
In the audio, crown Craig Fraser is asking Michalski about the message to Millard, asking what the toys are in the toolbox he was dropping

Alex Pierson ‏@AlexpiersonAMP 5m5 minutes ago
Crown asking Hagerman about text he sent to Millard about "the toys so he can prepare himself." - hagerman says his phone wasn't working

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 5m5 minutes ago
Craig Fraser is asking the Qs for the Crown. He's asking Hagerman about texts between him and Millard before toolbox was dropped off. #Bosma

Colin Butler ‏@ColinButlerCBC 5m5 minutes ago
Last night jury wanted to know about the pact made between Hagerman and Michalski in regards to a toolbox left by Millard. #TimBosma

 
Colin Butler ‏@ColinButlerCBC 6m6 minutes ago
Hagerman said he was supposed to hang onto the toolbox for "just a few days" and it was "nothing serious." #TimBosma

Alex Pierson ‏@AlexpiersonAMP 7m7 minutes ago
It was only a text chat. And it was Millard using Christina Nudges phone. Millard assured him it was nothing serious. @AM900CHML

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 7m7 minutes ago
The communication was strictly via text, Hagerman agrees. Millard told him he was feeling heat and wanted him to hold sth for a few days

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 7m7 minutes ago
Hagerman said he only communicated with Millard via text during that time period. Millard told him he was feeling some heat.

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 7m7 minutes ago
The conversation was strictly by text through Christina Noudga's phone. #Bosma

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 7m7 minutes ago
Hagerman said "full of guns?" He said this was a joke. #TimBosma #Bosma

Alex Pierson ‏@AlexpiersonAMP 7m7 minutes ago
Millard referred to the toolbox. Hagerman was familiar w it, but wanted to prepare himself for what may be inside. @AM900CHML

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 7m7 minutes ago
This is from the exchange of text messages where Hagerman asked what he was getting, and Millard said "a toolbox." #TimBosma #Bosma

Colin Butler ‏@ColinButlerCBC 7m7 minutes ago
Hagerman said he made a joke "ha ha full of guns?" Because Millard was dancing around his questions about the toolbox. #TimBosma

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 7m7 minutes ago
"I made a joke, ha ha full of guns? just because of how awkward and weird the situation was," Hagerman testified.

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 7m7 minutes ago
Hagerman says he'd seen the toolbox before. He says he made a joke back "haha full of guns?" #Bosma


Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 7m7 minutes ago
"IT wasn't anything serious, it wasn't anything big. It was just a few toys," said Hagerman. Millard wanted him to hold them for a few days.

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 7m7 minutes ago
"He told me he was feeling some heat and he wanted me to hold onto something just for a few days." Hagerman said. #TimBosma #Bosma

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 7m7 minutes ago
Hagerman is talking about the conversation with Millard when he was asked to hold something for awhile. "I previous had known this toolbox"

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 7m7 minutes ago
Hagerman says Millard asked if he could do him a favour. Said he was 'feeling some heat' wanted him to hold onto something-a toolbox. #Bosma
 
I waited till I got enough courage to post this...LOL
IMO, there was A LOT of what I call "background noise" in this whole thing. The video games. I play Grand Theft Auto and other type of games like Warcraft. They're precision games and hold your attention. Not everyone likes the racing ones or the bowling or tennis ones. Does that make me violent? Does this mean I'm gonna build a catapult and storm my neighborhood? Nooooo! Again, I know it was there to show MS was into what they were describing as violent or violence minded because of the games he chose to play.
For example, in the Arias case, her lawyer tried to insinuate the victim was a pervert and a sexual deviant because he had watched one of Daft Punk's amusing/bizarre video's on his computer and the song had lyrics with "stronger" "harder" "faster" in it. So, the rap genre, in and of itself, has become way beyond violent and down right scary with lyrics about women raping, cop killing and more. Does that mean these rappers are gonna go out and actually DO those acts? Rap has become the harder and more violent, the better. Show you're a bad azz, a warning that if you mess with me, I'm gonna get payback. Do they? No! Background noise, IMO. I won't get into other stuff, that, IMO, was similar background noise.

Here I go, this WILL NOT be popular. IMO, the Eliminator, was more a part of DM and his employee, Shane S...more than MS. DM and the guy had discussions about the "size/model" they should get. DM decided to get the larger model. Shane S's name was on the receipts. I DO know MS knew of it and it's purpose. The paperwork was found in DM's Yukon when stopped.
The actual shooting was done by DM. All's my opinion, again. BUT, I can't wrap my head around the fact that the murder was "planned", per se. From DM's text, he mentions, something to the fact, when asked, said it could be an early night, or a long one.
Murder was an option, BUT, it could go either way. IMO, DM was ready for the murder to happen, though, AND MS, as well. IMO, it just affected MS differently.
When MS got home, he was visibly shaken (MY interpretation) and said things got "effed up". IMO, again, I honestly believe that MS didn't know stuff was gonna go down as it did,BUT, he had NO problem what so ever as accepting it and taking part in the horrific events that came AFTER.

But you have to admit, catapults are kind of cool. :)
 
Colin Butler ‏@ColinButlerCBC 7m7 minutes ago
Hagman said he joked about guns because Millard had shown no interest in guns and he had never seen guns in his possession. #TimBosma

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 7m7 minutes ago
He says the 'gun' text was strictly a joke. He'd never knew DM to have guns. #Bosma

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 7m7 minutes ago
"Dellen was never someone with an interest in guns, I never saw him with one. It was truly a joke," Hagerman testified.

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 7m7 minutes ago
"Dellen was never someone who had an interest in guns," Hagerman testified. We know now that's not true. #TimBosma #Bosma

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 6m6 minutes ago
One he said it was a toolbox, Hagerman says he knew the one because he'd seen it before at Maplegate. #Bosma

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 6m6 minutes ago
Millard told him it was a toolbox. Hagerman knew the toolbox and thought he knew what was inside. He had never seen Millard with guns.

Colin Butler ‏@ColinButlerCBC 6m6 minutes ago
Hagerman also wanted to know what the "toys" were so he "could prepare" himself. He knew the toolbox from previous years. #TimBosma

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 6m6 minutes ago
"He wasn't just coming out and telling me what he wanted me to hold on to. I had known the toolbox from previous years," Hagerman said

Alex Pierson ‏@AlexpiersonAMP 6m6 minutes ago
what were u preparing for? asks crown. Hagerman says Millard wouldn't say other than it was a tool box. i knew it from yrs past.

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 7m7 minutes ago
The audio quality on this is terrible. Hagerman's voice is clipping so much that it's hard to hear him. #TimBosma #Bosma

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 7m7 minutes ago
Millard assured him it was nothing serious. What did you think you were preparing for? asked Crown.

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 7m7 minutes ago
Hagerman says Millard assured him it was nothing serious. Just a few toys. He asked what the toys were so he could "prepare" himself. #Bosma

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 7m7 minutes ago
Hagerman was assured there was nothing serious in the toolbox Millard was dropping off. #Bosma
 
Colin Butler ‏@ColinButlerCBC 6m6 minutes ago
Millard later sent the message "2" Hagerman claims he doesn't know what it means. Millard met him on his driveway 4am that morning #TimBosma

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 6m6 minutes ago
Hagerman's testimony is now at the part where he met up with Millard in his parent's driveway. This was when he got the toolbox. #Bosma

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 6m6 minutes ago
Did you meet Mr Millard that night? I did. Early in the morning. Around 4am. In the driveway of my parents' home, Hagerman said. #Bosma

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 6m6 minutes ago
Millard's response to that: "2." They met at 4 a.m. on May 10 in the driveway of Hagerman home. #Bosma

Alex Pierson ‏@AlexpiersonAMP 6m6 minutes ago
Hagerman said he deleted them because he was nervous. would meet DM 4 am. May 10. driveway of his parents home.

Colin Butler ‏@ColinButlerCBC 6m6 minutes ago
When Hagerman asked "full of guns?" Millard replied "..." Hagerman said he figured he wasn't replying to his "bad joke." #TimBosma

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 6m6 minutes ago
After Hagerman jokes, "ha ha full of guns," Millard writes "..." and then later, "2"

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 7m7 minutes ago
"Ha ha, full of guns," Hagerman texted Millard back. Calls it "a bad joke."

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 7m7 minutes ago
Hagerman deleted all these text messages. "With events following, I was just nervous," explained Hagerman.

Alex Pierson ‏@AlexpiersonAMP 7m7 minutes ago
Hagerman joked about the "toys" because he didn't think that's what it might be. @AM900CHML

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 7m7 minutes ago
Hagerman admits in his testimony that he deleted all these messages. "I was just nervous," Hagerman said. #TimBosma #Bosma

Colin Butler ‏@ColinButlerCBC 7m7 minutes ago
Fraser notes Hagerman deleted all the text messages about the toolbox. Hagerman says he did because he was nervous. #TimBosma



Alex Pierson ‏@AlexpiersonAMP 7m7 minutes ago
hagerman thought drugs were inside. Said, Del was never interested in guns. hagerman deleted all text messages.
 
Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 6m6 minutes ago
Now audio from April 7 testimony. Handed toolbox in driveway at 4 a.m. Millard said to hold it for "a couple of days."

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 6m6 minutes ago
Now moving onto April 7, the second day of Hagerman's testimony. #Bosma

Alex Pierson ‏@AlexpiersonAMP 6m6 minutes ago
Millard told him he was just coming by w the tool box. Says he still didn't know what was in tool box.

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 6m6 minutes ago
Hagerman said he just assumed what was in the toolbox at that point. #Bosma

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 6m6 minutes ago
We're now moving to April 7 in Hagerman's testimony. #TimBosma #Bosma

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 6m6 minutes ago
Millard stopped by Hagerman's house that morning. He texts "2" shortly before he gets there. #Bosma

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 7m7 minutes ago
Hagerman says he "didn't know at all" what was in the toolbox. "I assumed at that point." #Bosma

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 7m7 minutes ago
Did Hagerman know what was in toolbox? "No, not at all."
 
I stated quite clearly that IMOO "the crown has not proven the case against MS beyond a reasonable doubt as it has with DM. I further went on to say that again, MOO What is proven beyond a doubt was that he was with DM that night and helped clean up, everything else is ones own perception and conjecture of the facts.

I believe it is reasonable to question the conflicting testimony of AM & MH regarding the "thing" and have reasonable doubt about MS's knowledge of and expectations regarding the gun MOOOOOOOO

It's important to control for biases. People do have "contrarian" tendencies sometimes. Examples are abundant - the apocalypse talks, gold going to $5000/oz. Most often than not, the "contrarians" assume extreme opinions and are wrong.

I also can imagine there is this chance that Smich was not aware of what's going to happen. But then I'm thinking, is it the "contrarian" speaking in me? May be it's all really really simple and I'm making up the pro-Smich arguments for some unknown subconscious reasons?

May be we can approach the problem differently? What about the following questions
1. If Millard had this planned, what are the chances that he wouldn't share the plan with Smich?
2. If Smich knew what's going to happen, would he still go or bail out or tried to change Millard's mind?
 
Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 5m5 minutes ago
Two @HamiltonPolice detectives took statement from Hagerman at office of his Toronto lawyer.

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 6m6 minutes ago
Crown asks Hagerman if he'd like to refresh his memory on that point. Refers to his May 30, 2013 statement to police. #Bosma

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 6m6 minutes ago
Fraser is asking if Hagerman is sure about how long Millard asked him to hold on to the toolbox. Hagerman checks previous statement. #Bosma

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 6m6 minutes ago
Here Hagerman corrected what he said about the duration -- he then said Millard wanted him to have the toolbox for a couple of weeks. #Bosma

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 6m6 minutes ago
He had no idea how long Millard wanted him to hang onto the toolbox for. Said a couple days. #Bosma

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 6m6 minutes ago
Now onto Apr 7. Fraser is going back to the moment in Hagerman's drive when Millard & Noudga dropped off the toolbox. #Bosma

 
Colin Butler ‏@ColinButlerCBC 5m5 minutes ago
Millard told him he'd have to hang onto the toolbox "for a couple of weeks tops," Hagerman says after looking at the statement. #Bosma

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 5m5 minutes ago
"It was not a couple of days, it was a couple of weeks, tops" Hagerman says of time he was supposed to hold toolbox, after chking stmt

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 6m6 minutes ago
He refreshes his memory and says it was "a couple weeks tops" that Millard said he needed him to hang onto the toolbox. #Bosma

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 6m6 minutes ago
"It was not a couple of days, it was a couple of weeks, tops," revises Hagerman.

Alex Pierson ‏@AlexpiersonAMP 6m6 minutes ago
Hagerman didn't know how long he was to hold on to it. Crown went to police statement where he said about 2 weeks. not a couple of days.

Colin Butler ‏@ColinButlerCBC 6m6 minutes ago
Hagerman is refreshing his memory with a May 30 police statement about how long Millard wanted him to have the toolbox. #TimBosma

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 5m5 minutes ago
At this point in the audio, Hagerman is reviewing one of his statements to police before Crown continues with Qs. #Bosma
 
Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 6m6 minutes ago
When Hagerman asked what was in the toolbox, Millard said it was better he didn't know. #TimBosma #Bosma

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 6m6 minutes ago
Hagerman didn't recall if he asked again what was in the toolbox, but agrees Millard told him it was better he didn't know. #Bosma

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 6m6 minutes ago
Hagerman doesn't recall if he asked Millard at this point what was in the toolbox. #Bosma

Alex Pierson ‏@AlexpiersonAMP 6m6 minutes ago
Hagerman doesn't recall if he asked what was inside toolbox.

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 6m6 minutes ago
Hagerman said Millard looked "dishevelled" when passing off the toolbox. #TimBosma #Bosma

Colin Butler ‏@ColinButlerCBC 6m6 minutes ago
Hagerman says Millard "appeared disheveled" and "he told me it was better if I don't know anything." #TimBosma

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 6m6 minutes ago
Handed toolbox by Millard & Hagerman says he asked if anything was wrong. "He said it was better if he didn't tell me." Looked dishevelled.

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 6m6 minutes ago
He said Millard seemed disheveled in the driveway. Hagerman asked what was wrong and Millard said it was better if he didn't tell him #Bosma

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 6m6 minutes ago
In the driveway Hagerman asked Millard if anything was wrong. "He seemed disheveled. He said it was better if he didn't tell me."

Alex Pierson ‏@AlexpiersonAMP 6m6 minutes ago
When he gets the toolbox he asked DM what was wrong. he seemed dishevelled. DM said it was better if he didn't tell him.

 
Alex Pierson ‏@AlexpiersonAMP 6m6 minutes ago
"confusion" answers Hagerman. Confused. He had seen the tool box back to 2009 so he thought he knew what was in it. (referring to drugs)

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 7m7 minutes ago
"Confusion, if anything. But I was just tired. I decided to go to bed," said Hagerman. He'd seen toolbox in 2009-2010.

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 6m6 minutes ago
Hagerman said he was confused but tired. Went to bed. #Bosma

Colin Butler ‏@ColinButlerCBC 6m6 minutes ago
Hagerman says he was "confused" "tired" he "just wanted to go to bed." #TimBosma

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 6m6 minutes ago
His state of mind was "confusion, if anything. I was tired, I decided to go to bed." #Bosma

Alex Pierson ‏@AlexpiersonAMP 7m7 minutes ago
Hagerman says it was a quick exchange. put it in his basement and goes to bed. crown questions his state of mind.

Lisa Hepfner ‏@HefCHCHNews 7m7 minutes ago
Hagerman said it was a quick exchange. He put the toolbox in his basement and went to bed. #Bosma

Colin Butler ‏@ColinButlerCBC 7m7 minutes ago
Hagerman says he took the toolbox and put it in his basement and went to bed. #TimBosma

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 7m7 minutes ago
Hagerman thought there was someone else in Millard's Yukon, but he can't tell. Put toolbox in basement and went to bed.

 
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