Viable suspect: Terry Hobbs #1

[Graznik]

Also were the woods heavy with mosquitoes that day? I know even kids dont want to be bothered with mosquitoes. How about those razors...were any of them used? Could probably get some dna if they were used.
Im sorry if I seem all over the place. I just started getting interested in this case and the Good Hart murders.
I cant follow the time line of events leading up to the discovery of the boys

Yes, I believe the woods were heavy with mosquitos that day/evening. IIRC, a police officer reported that the entrance to the area was so thick with mosquitos that she was reluctant to enter (was it Meeks?).

What issues have you got with the timeline? Maybe we can help straighten them out

 

[Justiceseeker35]

Yes, I believe the woods were heavy with mosquitos that day/evening. IIRC, a police officer reported that the entrance to the area was so thick with mosquitos that she was reluctant to enter (was it Meeks?).

What issues have you got with the timeline? Maybe we can help straighten them out

Yeah I don't get this mosquito thing. Investigators claim they didn't have mosquitos bites on them and therefore weren't killed in the woods. But everyone assumes they played out there that evening (because they were seen around the road leading into the woods) so wouldn't they have at least some bites on them. Unless we are saying they never made it to the woods and were picked up and killed somewhere else before they got there? Then just dumped out there to make it look like they were killed while playing?

 

[Angeleyez210]

Hmm interesting. And I don't think mosquitoes will feed on dead bodies? Thank you Graznik, but I think I am going to sit on the sidelines, it's way too many parameters for me and the answer was probably sitting up under our noses since 1993. Im starting to just grasp at straws to TH, John Byers, truckers, etc. It's too frustrating to me.

 

[Angeleyez210]

One more thing before I bow out
Were the boys submerged down in the ground underneath the water like somebody tried to shove them in waterbed. The reason why im asking is because when I was watching Devil's Knot the detective seemed like he was pulling the boys up from out the earth underneath

 

[Userid]

Are there alot of truckers that go pass the area where the incident happened?

Absolutely. As someone else mentioned there is the Blue Beacon Truck Wash -- but also, there used to be a huge truck stop as well -- both walking distance to where the bodies were found. The killer(s) could have easily drove through to the back of the truck stop parking lot (as there was no fence at the around the perimeter of the truck stop, around the retention and right up to the tree line.

The killer(s) also could have drove through the Blue Beacon Truck Wash lot, but in my opinion, that would have been a lot more risky. The back of the Truck Stop lot was far away from the actual truck stop building and would have been more secluded to travel through as opposed to the truck Wash's lot, which was very small and which occupied in extremely close proximity to the building/employees.

 

[Compassionate Reader]

I'd like to address the mosquitoes. IMO, the boys were attacked in or near a manhole or drainage pipe. There were several in the area. It was within about 200 feet of the discovery ditch. Then, their bodies were placed in the manhole or drainage pipe. This happened before the mosquitoes were out. Sunset that evening wasn't until 7:50 pm, IIRC. Mosquitoes are attracted to carbon dioxide, among other things. If my suppositions are correct, the boys were only breathing very shallowly after the initial attack; they were unconscious and dying. I don't think that there would have been enough carbon dioxide to attract mosquitoes. Another possibility is that the manhole or drainage ditch might have been recently treated for mosquitoes. And, mosquitoes don't attack dead bodies.

Mosquitoes

Angeleyez, please don't stop posting! No one here will criticize you or belittle you. That's one of the great things about this site. We were all "newbies" to this case once. As a retired teacher, I can assure you that the only way you can learn is to ask questions!

 

[carillion]

Well it ate my post. New sleuth here. Hi everyone! I have always wondered about TH as a suspect. It seems I remember years ago reading that he had bragged that WMPD would protect him because they were using him to bust drug dealers which was more important than Satan worshippers. Were the 80's that good to me or does anyone else recall this? (I can't remember when Or where I saw this) And has anyone pointed out that Wiccans do not believe in Satan? It's hard to worship something you don't even acknowledge. Thanks for your patience with a noob!

 

[Justiceseeker35]

I'd like to address the mosquitoes. IMO, the boys were attacked in or near a manhole or drainage pipe. There were several in the area. It was within about 200 feet of the discovery ditch. Then, their bodies were placed in the manhole or drainage pipe. This happened before the mosquitoes were out. Sunset that evening wasn't until 7:50 pm, IIRC. Mosquitoes are attracted to carbon dioxide, among other things. If my suppositions are correct, the boys were only breathing very shallowly after the initial attack; they were unconscious and dying. I don't think that there would have been enough carbon dioxide to attract mosquitoes. Another possibility is that the manhole or drainage ditch might have been recently treated for mosquitoes. And, mosquitoes don't attack dead bodies.

Mosquitoes

Angeleyez, please don't stop posting! No one here will criticize you or belittle you. That's one of the great things about this site. We were all "newbies" to this case once. As a retired teacher, I can assure you that the only way you can learn is to ask questions!

Ok this is good, I think we are really getting somewhere. So the timeline is as follows
4:45 pm The Hobb's notice that SB is not back yet from playing (they are the first to note anyone missing)
5:00 TH drives PH to work and is looking around the roads on the way and will continue to search after dropping her off
6:00 is when other parents start to worry about their kids being missing
6:30 was the last sighting around Robin Hood hills
So the kids have to be attacked, incapacitated and hidden before sunset at 7:50 before day light fades and the mosquitos come out. The killer has to be confident he can hide them, bind them and contain them in a place where they can't escape. And I think they have to be in a place where he can check them throughout the evening to be sure they won't be found or escape and do the checking under the pretense of searching for them.
He doesn't even file a report until picking PH up at work at 9:45 pm or tell her SB is still missing.
When the bodies were found the next afternoon it was about 1:45 or 2 pm ish. The rigor showed that it had been about 12 hours since tod. That places the moving of the hog tied children and drownings in the ditch at around 1:30 to 2:00 am. I think this one of those good gaps in time for TH's whereabouts. The search began again at daylight with TH right with them. Plenty of time to move and arrange the bodies during the night and see how his work looked the next day.
The most logical explanation is they were concealed in the man hole. City man holes treated for mosquitos??!! Makes sense to me!

 

[Compassionate Reader]

Well it ate my post. New sleuth here. Hi everyone! I have always wondered about TH as a suspect. It seems I remember years ago reading that he had bragged that WMPD would protect him because they were using him to bust drug dealers which was more important than Satan worshippers. Were the 80's that good to me or does anyone else recall this? (I can't remember when Or where I saw this) And has anyone pointed out that Wiccans do not believe in Satan? It's hard to worship something you don't even acknowledge. Thanks for your patience with a noob!

I don't recall him mentioning that he was a drug informant, just that the wmpd "had to protect [him]" which always bothered me! Why? I haven't heard a definitive answer to that. I have my theories, but nothing is definite. And, yes, Wiccans don't even acknowledge the existence of "Satan" so they couldn't worship Satan. Wiccans are often misunderstood, especially in a community like West Memphis with its strong Bible base. So, to them, it could easily be confused with the all-pervading "Satanic panic" of the time. Anything they didn't understand was "Devil worship." Sermons were preached on it following the murders - from several pulpits!

 

[Angeleyez210]

Awesome JS!! Thx for the breakdown. And where did TH say he was from lets say 5:30 about the time he should be coming from dropping PH off to about lets 8:30 preparing to pick up PH from work

 

[Angeleyez210]

If those boys were taken to another spot by Somebody they didn't know wouldn't they try to run or yell? Who was able to wrangle 3 8 year old active boys without a struggle or help me or...I dont know

 

[Compassionate Reader]

Awesome JS!! Thx for the breakdown. And where did TH say he was from lets say 5:30 about the time he should be coming from dropping PH off to about lets 8:30 preparing to pick up PH from work

TH claims he was looking for Steven from 4:30 until when he picked up Pam at 9:15. DJ, his friend, says that he stopped by to play guitar with him from about 5:30 to 6:30. DJ stated that he searched with TH for two 15-minute periods. He didn't specify when these periods occurred. He is TH's main alibi. Here is his sworn declaration. The problem with TH's time line is that the times he gives don't match up with what those he claims he was with (JMB, Dana Moore and others) say.

 

[Justiceseeker35]

TH claims he was looking for Steven from 4:30 until when he picked up Pam at 9:15. DJ, his friend, says that he stopped by to play guitar with him from about 5:30 to 6:30. DJ stated that he searched with TH for two 15-minute periods. He didn't specify when these periods occurred. He is TH's main alibi. Here is his sworn declaration. The problem with TH's time line is that the times he gives don't match up with what those he claims he was with (JMB, Dana Moore and others) say.

Right! DJ accounts of searching are all over the place. In one version he stated he played guitars early on and TH left while Amanda stayed and was watched at his house by DJ and DJ didn't participate in the search until after TH picked up PH. JMB stated that TH didn't show up to let him know anyone was missing until around 8:30 so after sun set then participated in the search. So that puts TH's whereabouts in question from 6-8:30 pm. One neighbor's account states the kids headed into the woods at 6:30. So there's a 6:30 to about 8 pm window they could be attacked. I think the killer would have to be real quick on his feet about attacking, binding, and hiding three incapacitated kids.

 

[Angeleyez210]

Yeah you are right!

 

[Justiceseeker35]

Ok so question is, is that enough time to do this spontaneously?? or does it have to be meticulously planned out in advance. I guess if it was planned out one of the big variables is you cannot account for is the number of children. If SB is the target you can't always plan how many kids he'll be playing with on any given night. I guess my biggest puzzlement is was it a crime of sociopathic opportunity, homocidal rage, or cold hearted advanced premeditation.

 

[Justiceseeker35]

If those boys were taken to another spot by Somebody they didn't know wouldn't they try to run or yell? Who was able to wrangle 3 8 year old active boys without a struggle or help me or...I dont know

I think so, if it was a lone man who they did not know 1 or two of the boys would run away due to fear of the stranger. If it was a lone man against 3 boys that knew him he'd put them in a situation of trust then he'd pick the boy most likely to run away to incapacitate first.

Oh! I just thought of something important. So JM states that MM ran away and he caught him and held him there until the older boys showed up then he left all together. To me that sounds coached, JM could barely id the kids from the photos. The police needed an explanation why MM's body was found further away then the other boys and the JM story explains why. But what if it simply just explained by DJ helping TH cover up the murders and he carried MM to the incorrect spot.

 

[Compassionate Reader]

I've often said that I believe DJ knows more that he's told. His big scene in West of Memphis could have been staged. However, if, as I believe, TWH is the killer, then he would be able to get the kids to trust him - easily! He could have lured them to some place (like a manhole) where he had them contained. If, as I suspect, this was discipline gone bad, after the initial attack on his step son, the others would have been frozen by fear. They're only eight years old, FFS! So, he had to act quickly to eliminate the witnesses. As has been pointed out, there wasn't an "all out" search for the boys until after dark. That gives TWH plenty of time to do the deed, hide the bodies and go pick up Pam and report Steven "missing" all innocently. IMO, his repeated returning to DJ was an attempt to confuse the times in the belief that DJ would give him a solid alibi for the time. I don't think DJ was involved with the murders, but I suspect that he might have been involved in a cover-up. The Guy/Stewart statements are interesting, but I don't believe that they are totally factual, just that they contain some nuggets of truth. However, I do believe that there was a "Hobbs family secret" and that TH confessed to his brother. Unfortunately, the only proof of that is legally inadmissible. Maybe more information will be forthcoming - soon!

 

[Justiceseeker35]

I've often said that I believe DJ knows more that he's told. His big scene in West of Memphis could have been staged. However, if, as I believe, TWH is the killer, then he would be able to get the kids to trust him - easily! He could have lured them to some place (like a manhole) where he had them contained. If, as I suspect, this was discipline gone bad, after the initial attack on his step son, the others would have been frozen by fear. They're only eight years old, FFS! So, he had to act quickly to eliminate the witnesses. As has been pointed out, there wasn't an "all out" search for the boys until after dark. That gives TWH plenty of time to do the deed, hide the bodies and go pick up Pam and report Steven "missing" all innocently. IMO, his repeated returning to DJ was an attempt to confuse the times in the belief that DJ would give him a solid alibi for the time. I don't think DJ was involved with the murders, but I suspect that he might have been involved in a cover-up. The Guy/Stewart statements are interesting, but I don't believe that they are totally factual, just that they contain some nuggets of truth. However, I do believe that there was a "Hobbs family secret" and that TH confessed to his brother. Unfortunately, the only proof of that is legally inadmissible. Maybe more information will be forthcoming - soon!

I'm right with you on all this. Except what makes me so sick is that... TH shows up and meets up with JMB and DM to talk to them about the missing kids and to aid in a search. But even then he doesn't use their phone to call the police to report it. No he waits until after he picks up his wife when she asks where he is. Almost like he's an afterthought. All I know is if my kid is missing for hours I'll be on the phone with the police asking them to find him.

 

[Compassionate Reader]

I'm right with you on all this. Except what makes me so sick is that... TH shows up and meets up with JMB and DM to talk to them about the missing kids and to aid in a search. But even then he doesn't use their phone to call the police to report it. No he waits until after he picks up his wife when she asks where he is. Almost like he's an afterthought. All I know is if my kid is missing for hours I'll be on the phone with the police asking them to find him.

He didn't even go by the restaurant (which was close to his house) to search or tell PH he was still missing. What a guy!

 

[Angeleyez210]

Lol. .im sorry that wasnt funny