Video of KC and Baez Crying together to be released UPDATE BAEZ THREATENS TO SUE

[lastchance]

What a shame the state's motion for a gag order was denied, huh? Oh, wait, that's right; JB argued against it.

I always thought that fighting that motion would come back to bite JB. I never could figure what the rationale for it was. What possible misbehavior on JB's part is he so worried about? It must be pretty unprofessional to go through all this rigamarole.

 

[lin]

You do not have to believe me if you do not want to, but I was a Booking/Classifications Lieutenant in a jail/correctional facility. I know the DOC regulations and jail guidelines.

...

Lawyers use jail, correctional facility, and prison tapes in court all of the time. Usually it is in a lawsuit an inmate has brought against the facility, but tapes and reports are also used by prosecutors to prove inmate attacks on officers, and even to show unusual behavior. I do have a feeling that this tape can be used IF there is no medical information disclosed. Maybe use the tape with no audio and stop it just before Casey asks for medication. I do not see why this tape of Casey's reaction would have anything at all to do with any medical condition. It would just show her demeanor, and IMO, the whole tape would not be shown - just her reaction to the news.

Sorry for the long post. I am just not believing that Baez could equate the tape with delving into Casey's medical records. And if he is caught on tape exibiting any untoward behavior with his client, tough. He should have behaved himself!

(Respectfully shortened and emphasis added)

Thank you very much for sharing the information and good sense in your post. This lawyer may be glad for those tapes when she's using ineffective assistance of counsel and claiming inappropriate contact during these visits. I not only believe you, it is the logical course.

Furthermore, it's my understanding that JB let the medication cat out of the pill bottle. I don't see how they can reasonably claim any sort of privilege for repeating information that's already been disclosed by them. Nancy Botwin's apt description comes to mind: Mud of his own making, applied by his own hand/mouth and expecting us to believe his whining the state is slinging it.

 

[lin]

No, no cell phones are allowed in the locked down area where Baez and Casey would be meeting.

Baez would have been patted down, and even his breifcase would have been searched before he met with Casey. I cannot imagine where the red licorice (sp) could have come from.

Usually a classroom will not have audio anyway, and that is where Baez said he and Casey usually met.

That may depend on the jurisdiction and also may change with the times. Remember he does get to bring his laptop.

 

[lin]

Could KC have bought it with all the money she has in her accoung? Is she allowed to bring "food" with her to meetings?

I have no idea if she's allowed to bring snacks. Despite how fun it is to contemplate a video showing the scene JH described to LE about the red licorice, iirc the jail spokesperson said it's not likely that actually happened. And we all know how 'telephone' goes... From DC to JH to LE... And that's assuming JH didn't totally dream it up on his own. Sorry.

 

[lin]

I always thought that fighting that motion would come back to bite JB. I never could figure what the rationale for it was. What possible misbehavior on JB's part is he so worried about? It must be pretty unprofessional to go through all this rigamarole.

Media ratings; media interviews; media money. Simple math that even JB could do. Unfortunately, he thought he could control it.

 

[Paintr]

I have no idea if she's allowed to bring snacks. Despite how fun it is to contemplate a video showing the scene JH described to LE about the red licorice, iirc the jail spokesperson said it's not likely that actually happened. And we all know how 'telephone' goes... From DC to JH to LE... And that's assuming JH didn't totally dream it up on his own. Sorry.

O/T lin, but I wanted to say that I enjoy both your well thought out posts and your siggy pics. Thank you kindly for both the food for thought and the chuckles.

 

[yolorado]

I agree with you 100% on the sunshine laws. I can't think of any valid reason that the public needs to know all this information BEFORE the trial. It victimizes everyone involved in this case, even innocent bystanders. If I were one of the parties whose information was released to the public, I would be suing the state for invasion of privacy.

As interesting as it sometimes is to disect KC's every nuance, I have to agree about FL's sunshine laws. I think they are positively invasive at the level of grand inquisition and often throw people out there who are merely witnesses and innocent bystanders.

Part of the problem is that trials take so long to get started and finished with too much emphasis put on the poor, dear defendant. Justice needs to be more swift, more even handed between the interests the criminal and the victims. Casey's crime is so frustrating (or as KC would say, 'frushtrating.) She 'lost' her child...didn't seem to phase her, never reported her missing. She just partied on until someone else came looking for the baby. Then, when the 'loss' of her child was discovered, she did absolutely nothing to help find her. In fact, she hindered efforts by providing a mountain of false evidence. THAT alone should be enough to lock someone up...at least until the lost child is located. And if the child is located dead and thrown away like trash, nothing else, not one more thing should have to be proven to put away the person who 'lost' that child, when they didn't even have the concern or decency to report the loss while they continued drinking, drugging, having sex and baking lasagna. To have to wait to have that settled is almost unacceptable. To have to hear her proclamed 'innocent,' 'a victim,' borders on unbearable. I think people derive some satisfaction in this case from seeing this dreadful woman on tape. It's not that she's remorseful or pitiful so that one watching revels in her pain. It's that she's so clearly and undeniably guilty which comes through whenever she's seen or heard. With the slow as molasses, over-concerned with the perp justice system we have in this country, that's reassuring on some level, that eventually there will be some justice for little Caylee.

But, again, I do think FL's sunshine laws are way, way over the top. Let it come at trial, and after, but let the trial come sooner.

 

[LaLaw2000]

Could KC have bought it with all the money she has in her accoung? Is she allowed to bring "food" with her to meetings?

She could have, but it should not have been allowed. She could carry her 'papers' with her.

 

[LaLaw2000]

Thank you kindly, LaLaw. I didn't know proceedure and wondered if there were two sources of tapes...one from the jail of KC's reaction to the finding of the remains and one from someone like DC (not a regular jail video) I wondered if DC could have been outside the interview room, taping JB and KC through the viewing window?

You are welcome, Paintr.

DC might have been allowed in the room with Baez when he met with Casey or even allowed to enter later in the meeting. No way he would have been allowed in the hallway outside by the window, IMO, and would not have been allowed to bring taping equipment into the facility - nor a cell phone into the locked down area.

 

[LaLaw2000]

(Respectfully shortened and emphasis added)

Thank you very much for sharing the information and good sense in your post. This lawyer may be glad for those tapes when she's using ineffective assistance of counsel and claiming inappropriate contact during these visits. I not only believe you, it is the logical course.

Furthermore, it's my understanding that JB let the medication cat out of the pill bottle. I don't see how they can reasonably claim any sort of privilege for repeating information that's already been disclosed by them. Nancy Botwin's apt description comes to mind: Mud of his own making, applied by his own hand/mouth and expecting us to believe his whining the state is slinging it.

You are welcome, lin!

I think that this is a whole mudslide of Baez own making! I am going to be so interested in seeing Casey and Baez' demeanor in court this afternoon!

 

[Macushla]

hmm that's a good question. There's a LOT going on in this motion, but we're lacking the actual details and facts upon which JB is basing this careening diatribe/motion.
I think the only way this would look bad for OCSD is if they were monitoring and taping the audio of meetings between Casey & JB. In today's media reports, I read statements from OCSD officials who stated that the monitoring is standard procedure and the jail uses video surveillance only-- no audio.

I also think it would make sense for the jail to hold onto any footage featuring an inmate who is likely "litigation prone" -- Casey Anthony seems like the kind of person who might falsely allege that a guard roughed her up or made sexual advances upon her. I think it's a good idea for them to internally retain Casey's tapes until her appeals are exhausted, actually. Just in the event they may be necessary to defend against any specious claims Casey may raise in the future. I don't know if there are rules to prevent the internal retention of such records-- but it makes sense to me, personally.

The main issue, to me, is that JB is blurring OCSD and the SA. We haven't heard any confirmation that the SA is even looking at these tapes-- let alone planning to use them as evidence or release them to the public. If they are released to the public, then maybe I will see a problem with them-- if that makes sense??

To me this is all a bit absurd because it seems like JB is sitting in a corner wiping mud all over his own face while publicly decrying the SA for slinging the mud.

I didn't get a chance to come back to this thread last night! I never even thought about KC being litigation prone and making accusations - that is a very good point! she lied about everything else and so loves being the drama queen. You bring up some excellent points. I agree that JB can't distinguish between OCSO and SA and is lumping them all together, which is not doing him any good at all.

It will be interesting to see how Judge Strickland deals with this, since it looks like it might be heard today. I wonder if JB realizes he has mud all over his face or plans to use this hearing as a 'whining time'. I've noticed him do this in previous hearings, it almost sounds like he is 'practicing' for his opening statement or rebuttal statement.

I hope you come back and post your thoughts after this hearing, I would be very interested in how you think this played out today.

 

[Reality Orlando]

Has Baez ever heard of a lil something called a Bluebook or Westlaw or Lexis. Why in the world would he cite a link from a news article instead of the actual case instead? How embarrassing?

I have a feeling that Judge Strickland is going to hold off his decision on this one which usually means that he doesn't want to laugh in JB's face as he denies him and waits until the 4 o'clock hour to do so.

The first thing I thought was why would he cite a newspaper instead of the court documents? That one really threw me...

 

[Macushla]

Wow! Absolutely excellent research and post, Chezire! Hope you don't mind me bringing it over because it is very pertinent to this discussion. I especially hope those who don't find JBP and Suburban Dr. similar take the time to read it. THANKS!

I am one of those who do feel JBP and Suburban are different. I went back and read a report that said that KC's reaction to Suburban came from seeing the news reports on a TV in the Medical Waiting Area. IF that report is true, then I would be happy to agree that her reactions in each incident are examples of consiousness of guilt (sorry if I spelled that wrong). If, however, KC did not 'collapse' until told of the discovery by jail personnel, I will still say you can't compare the two. Just my opinion, of course!

On another note: A couple of posts talk about how KC fell apart before Caylee's remains were even identified. the minute I turned on the TV and saw the coverage, I knew it was Caylee. I doubt anyone who knew anything about the case had any doubts either. While official identification had to be done, I think everyone involved in the case and 99.9% of the general public knew it was Caylee. I didn't take that into consideration when thinking about the two incidents because, to me, it was obvious it was Caylee and they all knew it.

 

[Paintr]

You are welcome, Paintr.

DC might have been allowed in the room with Baez when he met with Casey or even allowed to enter later in the meeting. No way he would have been allowed in the hallway outside by the window, IMO, and would not have been allowed to bring taping equipment into the facility - nor a cell phone into the locked down area.

Again, LaLaw, I apreciate the information. I have never visited a jail so it is nice to have someone explain the proceedures so clearly.

If taping all lawyer/client visits (without audio) is SOP, it is difficult to see how JB can make objections about this time in particular.

If I was the jail, I would document every move made by either JB or KC and retain the tapes to cover myself from any future accusation of wrongdoing.

 

[dunlurken]

Quick question. Are there two videos? One of Casey and Baez in the "outter area", and one of Casey in the infirmary? I stay confused.

 

[MiraclesHappen]

I am confused by something I read in the motion.

Now last week when I was watching the motion-I heard Judge Strickland tell Jose he could go watch the video and he asked JB if he could do it today or tomorrow and JB said he could do it on Wednesday so Strickland said ok fine then you will have 15 days after(Wednesday) to file a motion to suppress if that's what you want to do

Today I read this motion and Jose has it in there like this

So am I reading that JB thinks he still has 15 days from today when in fact if I remember correctly he only has 7 left--so if he fails to file a motion to suppress by next Thursday then we get to see it and JB is SOLI hope he forgets when he's supposed to have it done by so Judge Strickland can just authorize it's release without having another hearing on it and by the looks of it JB is going to be busy for a couple of days with this new motion.

*bold added*


That's not written in stone though.

JB has been given amazing latitude by a very patient Judge who seems to be the steady ship in very rough seas, comparatively.

The other SOL (Statute of Limitations) would not be a factor in the timing of this criminal pretrial motion. (though I like Irish's SOL way better )


If JB fails to file in time, there is still a possibility that he will file a "Motion to File a Motion to Suppress Beyond the Time Originally Allowed." :wink:

As grounds therefore, some sort of bs explaining why it was not humanly possible to do the motion on time, will be stated.
"Interests of Justice" language will probably pop up as well.

:Justice:

That creates a real dilemma, as the Judge's orders should not be taken as "optional suggestions" but as real COURT ORDERS. :gavel: :gavel:

But, do we really want to have to redo a giant costly trial because it's important to slap JB for not doing things in a timely fashion and for being tardy. :trout:

Under Florida's Criminal Rules, just as an aside, if circumstances warrant, a pretrial motion to suppress, can be delayed to a point at which it is addressed during a trial (which would have to be halted to hear that suppression issue).

Just thinkin' aloud here...Humble-Opinion:wolf:
All that aside, I admit, I really want to see the tapes. This case is making me :nuts::Banane23:

 

[zoey]

You are welcome, lin!

I think that this is a whole mudslide of Baez own making! I am going to be so interested in seeing Casey and Baez' demeanor in court this afternoon!

I just hope we get the front view....that rear view really got old that last time....:furious:

 

[maryaok]

The first thing I thought was why would he cite a newspaper instead of the court documents? That one really threw me...

Maybe since it took him eight years to pass the bar after graduation, he never learned about the Internet and how to use it to prepare for trial. You know, he's still back in dinosaur times with his defense!!!:bang:

 

[debs]

There are two tapes in question, and JB seems to be attempting to confuse people. There is one tape of Casey in the infirmary bay (the one mentioned above for the 15 days review issue) and the one of Casey meeting Jose in the classroom, a public area of the jail monitored at all times.

As confused as we've become here on WS about the two tapes, he may be successful.

 

[maryaok]

Question for posters: Who is / was more difficult to listen to try to talk: George W. Bush, Ronald Reagan, Casey Anthony or Jose Baez?