VT VT - Lynne Kathryn Schulze, 18, Middlebury, 10 Dec 1971

[Pettibon Junction]

Again, as far as Durst's status as a murderer, there has never been any DNA evidence presented which connects him to any murder, and in fact he has never been convicted of a murder.

You're splitting hairs with my use of the word "murderer." Questions of malice aforethought aside, Robert Durst is a confessed killer - he, by his own admission, shot Morris Black, cut his body into pieces, which he then tossed into Galveston Bay. It takes far less of a leap to presume that a man with a habit of leaving missing women and dead bodies in his wake for the past 30 years was probably responsible for the vanishing of a young woman who was last seen across the street from a property he owned than to start conjuring up potboiler fantasies of nuclear espionage and government cover-ups.

 

[Mountaingazer]

I've heard the rumor, but I can't remember where. I didn't find it in any of the places where I thought it might have been, so maybe it was just my own thought.

In 1971, being pregnant outside of marriage was still a big deal, and I'm not sure where the closest place to have an abortion would have been. It's before Roe V. Wade. From Vermont, it might have been Canada. She would not have been the first girl to get pregnant in college and decide she could never face her family again. Though I would expect if something like that had happened, at least one of her friends would have known. It's a comforting sort of speculation because it would offer the hope that she went off somewhere to happily live her own life, but I don't think there's much substance to it.

Middlebury to Montreal is just a bit over two hours (actual time varies a lot depending on traffic at the border). There would be busses to Montreal from the same stop across the street from All Good Things.

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[Mountaingazer]

Though feel if this were the case, someone would have come forward by now.

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[Zephyranth]

The unfortunate truth is that women (and men) go missing and/or are killed at a certain rate, nationwide. It seems as if Durst's guilt is a given--but we have at most a single death which was officially deemed, by a jury of 12 citizens, to not be murder. It's possible to pick just about any citizen in this country, unfortunately, trace their movements about the nation, and find deceased people nearby; it doesn't mean that particular citizen is responsible, however.

At any rate, we have no evidence Durst was at the store that day, no evidence he owned the store on Dec 10, 1971 nor in fact any evidence he truly lived in Middlebury/Ripton at all in 1971. The only solid "evidence" we have for Durst's connection to that area is hearsay from the Israels; the (current) town clerk has no record of any Durst living at the Ripton property claimed by the Israels. Doesn't mean they're wrong, but there simply is no evidence to date of his tenure in Ripton/Middlebury. Nor is there any record of him owning the health food store, much less being present on Dec 10, 1971 and selling prunes.

I'm not writing Durst off; I wouldn't be endlessly seeking records of his alleged residences and businesses if that wereso. But the case"connecting" him and Lynne is not only weak, it is non-existent.

I have a personal suspicion that the person who really killed Lynne, if in fact she was killed, is feeling some heat and spinning some tales. It's a great story--"A serial killer ran a health store where Lynne went to school," but upon closer scrutiny, there is no evidence for any of that. Nonetheless, I continue to spend time seeking it--which could be the point of whomever's spinning.

 

[Zephyranth]

It's so hard to understand a case which has been so fraught with misinformation/disinformation from the very beginning. The very first article (Burlington Free Press, Jan. 21, 1972) published on Lynne's disappearance cites the family as requesting "no publicity" but then removing the "lid of secrecy" that was "clamped" on Lynne's disappearance by her father. At least some of this is bunk; the family wasn't told by the school of her disappearance for days, and when they found out, they wanted immediately for her disappearance to be publicized and for her to be searched for. (I do realize that just because some family members wanted that, it doesn't mean ALL family members wanted it. Otto has long since passed, for example, and there's no way of knowing whether the children's recollection of their parents wanting Lynne searched for reflected BOTH parents' feelings, or just their mom's). However, the Burlington Free Press's immediate insistence that Otto "didn't want Lynne's case publicized" is interesting to me. It could reflect the school doing damage control and blaming Otto, when in fact the school itself had lagged in dealing with the issue; or it could reflect an actual conversation Otto had with police/press/the school wherein he, for reasons not explained, didn't want her case publicized. At any rate, some of the family today feels the school is not being truthful when it claims the family "didn't want Lynne's case publicized."

 

[Zephyranth]

An interesting philosophical point I heard once, regarding the mindset of looking for something lost: sometimes we can feel as if the missing person/object/goal no longer exists, since they have been out of our sight for so long. Worth reminding ourselves that the person (or unfortunately, sometimes, a body) does exist; something specific did happen, and it is theoretically possible to find the answer. I've found this reminder comforting and helpful over the years.

 

[Odyssey]

Wow, I haven't looked at this thread in awhile, lots of new activity!

Please correct me if I have anything wrong here, but I have some reservations about Durst being involved.

As far as I know, Durst is a hothead. I believe he did kill at least 3 people: his wife and his neighbor because they angered him, and my guess on Susan is that she knew too much about his other crimes If he did kill Lynne, I think there was more to it than just abducting a girl who happened to come bro his store to buy prunes.

I read the book about Kathie Durst's disappearance some time ago, and from the authors standpoint, Durst was pretty normal when he and Kathie married, but seemed to suffer from mental illness toward the end of their marriage/her life. I don't know of any of these issues prior to that point.

Is there any chance that she actually knew him well enough that she could have gotten hm enraged? Maybe there was a relationship that she was trying to end?

Another thing I am confused by: was there any mention of Lynne being seen in or near his store BEFORE he was all over the news as a suspected murderer?

If that sighting was reported before Durst was in the news, I'd think he would have been questioned - not as a suspect at that time, but as a witness because she had reportedly been last seen there. Yet, LE is quoted as saying they did not question him.

That makes me think that Durst's store was never mentioned until after Durst was suspected of killing his wife. It only became public fairly recently. That would be at least 12 years after the fact but somehow the witness remembered what date it was and what she was eating.

Something just doesn't seem right to me.

I know there has been lots of frustration in not knowing whether her pen was still in the dorm room, but I am also curious to know if she had the backpack and hiking boots when she was walking with her friends. They were apparently missing from her room along with an ID so knowing whether she had them on her way to the exam would also indicate whether she had actually gone back to the room.

Jmo

 

[Pettibon Junction]

Another thing I am confused by: was there any mention of Lynne being seen in or near his store BEFORE he was all over the news as a suspected murderer?

Yes. The bus stop where the last confirmed sighting of Lynne took place was directly across from All Good Things.

 

[Odyssey]

I can't believe that if LE knew at the time that she had been seen at Durst's store, that they didn't go there and talk to him.

That would be the most obvious thing to do (even if Durst wasn't thought to have any involvement) but they said in an article up thread that they had never questioned him. How is that even possible? They didn't think to go to the place she was last seen?

I know it was a bit after her disappearance that it was announced by the media that she was missing - a month or so if I remember correctly. So not a lot of people knew she was missing to have reported that they'd seen her there if ithe sighting was reported immediately. It would have to have been someone who knew her or her family.

Something just seems a little off to me.

 

[Pettibon Junction]

The police didn't really investigate Lynne's disappearance as a possible kidnapping/homicide. It was 1971 and she was a bit of a hippie. The prevailing thought was that she just took off. It happened a lot back then so sadly, many victims fell through the cracks.

 

[Odyssey]

Yeah, I get that, it just seemed weird to me that the case wasn't publicized for a month, and even her family didn't know for a week, but someone (or up to 3 people) remembered such detail about seeing her - like what time it was and what she was eating.

I was thinking on this some more this morning.

There was an earlier sighting of her eating prunes outside the store, and standing at the bus stop across the street. Then there was the later sighting at the bus stop again, after the pen incident. One of the times she was at the bus stop, she reportedly said she was going to New York and missed the bus.

I don't think that someone driving by in a car could have made out what she was eating, and she probably didn't yell to someone in a car that she was going to New York. These sightings much more likely came from someone, or different people on foot.

Being that nobody really knew about her disappearance until at least a week later, I find it odd that different people would remember such details

I am now thinking it's likely that it was Durst who reported the sightings. He would probably have been there through all three sightings, and would have known what she was eating because she'd just bought it from him. He could see her at the bus stop both times by looking out a front window or door.

This could explain why he wasn't questioned, he may have just volunteered the sighting info.

I agree that these cases often weren't investigated thoroughly but I would still think that a month later, when they took it seriously enough to put an article in the paper, that they would have at least checked out her last known sighting.

 

[Odyssey]

Just wanted to add that I was wrong in thinking Durst reported the sightings. One of the articles said both sightings were by male students.

 

[Zephyranth]

I agree - the sudden recollection of Durst, prunes, and what-not is suspicious; a journalist currently investigating this story thinks so, too, and doesn't buy the Durst angle. My theory is that it is the Israels who, for reasons yet to be explained, came forward with what I call the Prunes Phase of this story.

There is very, very little evidence indicating Durst was even IN town when Lynne was; some accounts don't have him even moving there until 1972.

The Israels seem in some ways an odd shadow of the Dursts, or visa versa; both husbands arriving in town just before their wives to operate health food stores, both wives arriving in January immediately after Lynne's disappearance was first publicized, both couples living in the same exact house (or at least area, depending on your reading of the account) on the Charlie Miller property in Ripton; and now the Israels suddenly dragging police out to that property after remembering that that's exactly where "the serial killer Robert Durst lived?"

It almost seems like someone has used the Israel's history to create a history for Durst.

Why? One thought would be that if you suspect (or know) that there's a body on your old property--and a property that was possibly recently going to be sold i.e. possibly dug up and rebuilt on--it might be prudent to suddenly remember "a serial killer lived here, too."

Not accusing anyone of murder, btw. Lynne might have OD'd during one of the area's infamous poker games, for all I know, and the then-very-young residents and visiting professors and what-not freaked out and buried her on the property.

It's still hard to ignore the fact that her father was handpicked by Admiral Rickover to lead nuclear projects, and that his (Otto's) company was scheduled to testify in industry-changing hearings within weeks of Lynne's announced disappearance.

 

[carbuff]

I hate to agree with Zephyranth, but really there's nothing except hearsay and old memories connecting Durst to All Good Things. It was a well known store and it was there before he was; I seriously doubt he was ever a part owner. (But he could well have worked there. It was pretty common for food co-ops to either require you to work as payment for your share, or allow you to.)

And again, as Zephyranth pointed out, it was pretty common for kids to tune in and drop out in those days. Especially offspring of the military-industrial complex who wanted to join the peace movement, get back to nature, live off the land, et cetera. It was so common that most police departments wouldn't even look for a kid before several days had passed.

 

[Zephyranth]

Btw, as of March, 1972, "All Good Things" was still (or had just started) announcing itself as "formerly OM Foods." If Durst opened it in 1971 or earlier, and if it was indeed called "All Good Things" at the time of Lynne's disappearance in December 1971, why would the owner still need to be saying "formerly OM Foods" three months later?



We have absolutely zero proof it was Durst who, at any time, owned this store. There is no tax or postal record of him living in Middlebury OR Ripton. The Israels claim he lived in Ripton, but the postmaster--who was still living when asked about Durst--says she has no recollection of any Dursts.

As a young professional couple owning a local store and allegedly attending the local university, there would have been mail, even in 1971.

I'm beginning to think that the "Dursts in Middlebury/Ripton" is a figment of someone's imagination.

 

[Zephyranth]

Sorry carbuff--I was composing my "hearsay" line at the same time as you apparently, lol!

 

[Zephyranth]

I hate to agree with Zephyranth, but really there's nothing except hearsay and old memories connecting Durst to All Good Things. It was a well known store and it was there before he was; I seriously doubt he was ever a part owner. (But he could well have worked there. It was pretty common for food co-ops to either require you to work as payment for your share, or allow you to.)

And again, as Zephyranth pointed out, it was pretty common for kids to tune in and drop out in those days. Especially offspring of the military-industrial complex who wanted to join the peace movement, get back to nature, live off the land, et cetera. It was so common that most police departments wouldn't even look for a kid before several days had passed.

Say, Carbuff - when you say ATG was a well known store, there before Durst was, when was it established? It seems to me that if it was advertising the name "All Good Things" as a brand-new venture in March of 1972, it was neither well known nor provably there before Durst was. Not calling you out on this, btw, I'm well aware that the accepted story is exactly that, but the accepted story (on just about everything connected to this case, it seems) is proving to be pretty flimsy.

One piece of hearsay tells us that two anonymous "male students" saw Lynne at a health food store in December 1971, but it's starting to look a bit dubious as to whether ANY health food store in Middlebury was called All Good Things at that time. Which means that a sudden, new, witness account springing up years later, claiming Lynne was at All Good Things, is very suspicious.

The real issue to me is not so much the name of the store, but the fact that that we have absolutely zero proof, to date, that Robert Durst ever set foot in Middlebury and Ripton, much less lived there.

The question looming very large now is why two current residents of Middlebury who lived on a rural property in Ripton at the time of Lynne's disappearance in 1971, would suddenly be working overtime decades later to try and establish a brand-new story of a serial killer living at this same property in 1971.

I would add the need now to examine VERY closely their claim that Durst suddenly came back to VT to visit in 1976 (laying groundwork for someone moving a body at that time--making sure it can be pinned on Durst?) None of this means that any particular person committed murder; they could be covering for someone else, or simply covering up an unfortunate accident.

 

[Zephyranth]

Note again:

"Bennington Banner
Monday, January 24, 1972

PARENTS SEEK HELP IN FINDING MISSING
MIDDLEBURY COED

Middlebury/ A general missing persons broadcast has been issued by Vermont State Police for a Middlebury College coed who hasn't been heard from since Dec. 10.

Mr. and Mrs. Otto A. Shulze of B Brook Drive, Simsbury, Conn. have appealed to the public for help in locating their daughter. 17-year-old Lynne, a freshman at the Vermont college who was last seen walking on U.S. 7 south of Middlebury on Friday afternoon, Dec. 10."


WHY did every subsequent article refer to her as 18 years old, when her own parents said she was 17?

 

[carbuff]

There was a health/natural foods co-op in in Middlebury from very early on. I am told it was one of the few in the entire region and people used to drive from as far away as the NH coast to pick up "exotic" things like chickpea flour and bulk dried fruits. I don't know whether it always went by the same name. I kind of think not. I first heard about it when I moved to upstate New York in 1976; the local co-op had some people who had worked at the Vermont one. I'm pretty sure they were calling it All Good Things at the time. I don't know exactly when it was started, only that by the mid-70's it had been in business for years.

I don't know whether All Good Things, under whatever name, would have been known outside the college hippie/liberal professor/arty-crunchy-granola crowd. I suspect not.

A friend of mine who grew up in the area remembers her family would drive over to Middlebury a couple of times a year to stock up; she would have been a preteen in 1971.

I don't remember when I first heard Durst's name associated with it. I know people who claim to have known Durst back then, but they didn't say that until recently. I used to take them at their word but given your research, it may well be hearsay or false memory suggested by the publicity.

I don't find it odd that the new management was still referring to the former name several months later. For a place heavily dependent on college students, I'd expect them to emphasize it for the returning students, at the very least.

 

[Pettibon Junction]

Durst himself admits to being in that part of Vermont during the proper timeframe. The leads were only released to the public after Durst implicated himself as a murderer during filming of 'The Jinx' and was subsequently arrested. That doesn't necessarily mean the leads are brand new - just that police were only comfortable releasing them once Durst was in custody and charged with murder. Because there could have been possible legal headaches if Durst, with all his vast resources, were to bring forth suit for defamation.

But yeah, let's forget about him. It's far more likely that Lynne owes her disappearance to a government conspiracy rather than an admitted killer with a knack for body disposal.