Was BR involved? #2

[TeaTime]

Why would PR lie about who partially opened the gifts in the basement? Because she wanted to distance BR from the basement.

I think these parents decided to take all the arrows.

 

[johnjay]

http://perezhilton.com/2016-09-09-dr-phil-ask-burke-ramsey-kill-jonbenet#.V9QQ2TWy9dg

MAYBE??????

second video

Do you think he really said that or are they playing with the edits to tease us into watching?

 

[johnjay]

Why would PR lie about who partially opened the gifts in the basement? Because she wanted to distance BR from the basement.

I think these parents decided to take all the arrows.

Except for those they flung at friends, employees, and others.

 

[madeleine]

Do you think he really said that or are they playing with the edits to tease us into watching?

He probably said it IMO.Clips so far haven't been that misleading.
The one who is teasing us is BR IMO.

 

[johnjay]

He probably said it IMO.Clips so far haven't been that misleading.
The one who is teasing us is BR IMO.

If we're left with this same sort of impression after all the interviews then how does that help him? Are we expected to think - oh the fact that he finds his mother's trauma over the loss of her daughter amusing means nothing- he's just a Sheldon Cooper type. I'm finding this very odd.

 

[madeleine]

My guess is....they knew about the upcoming CBS shows and what accusations will be made...JR tried to explain away all the RDI evidence for how many times and failed....it was time for a change?BR will explain away every piece of the story it seems, yes he has a bizarre way of doing it but maybe it is exactly why he was chosen this time instead of JR?after the Phil show the waters will be even more muddier, cause BR is the *confused* type.did you eat pineapple?MAYBE.confused for real or on purpose in order to mislead?

 

[questfortrue]

People on the autism spectrum can lie - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3482107/
I know quite a few kids with this diagnosis and a couple lie like carpets and others honest to a fault, and the other ways they present are vastly different. I know autism diagnoses are useful to employ strategies, therapies and understanding but our current characterisation of "autism" is going to go the way of hysteria and the like.

And autism is not a discrete disease - "The DSM also states that there is no assumption that each category of mental disorder is a completely discrete entity with absolute boundaries dividing it from other mental disorders or from no mental disorder." ASD and ODD can go hand in hand and you don't get an ODD diagnosis because you are honest and never violent. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23860740

Thank you, Ozazure. I've read that sometimes co-morbidity between autism and another disorder of children can occur making diagnoses difficult. Does the DSM have a separate category for SBP, as described in Kolar's book, or would it be a subset of conduct disorder or ODD? Also, because of Sharon Araji's confidence that SBP can be successfully treated within six months, it led Kolar to wonder why BR was in therapy in Atlanta for at least a year or more. I'm not inquiring for any kind of diagnosis, just wanted your thoughts.

 

[nona's mum]

@SEC 0,24
whats that?him showing how he thinks it happened?knife?cant distinguish clearly

i thought it was him demonstrating how she'd been hit in the head but I may be wrong

 

[johnjay]

My guess is....they knew about the upcoming CBS shows and what accusations will be made...JR tried to explain away all the RDI evidence for how many times and failed....it was time for a change?BR will explain away every piece of the story it seems, yes he has a bizarre way of doing it but maybe it is exactly why he was chosen this time instead of JR?after the Phil show the waters will be even more muddier, cause BR is the *confused* type.did you eat pineapple?MAYBE.confused for real or on purpose in order to mislead?

I'm thinking an answer of "maybe" to the pineapple question warrants a follow up question like: well when might have that been ...

I could understand, "maybe - my memory isn't clear about what happened that night". Trauma can effect memory. But if you say that sort of thing with a smile then I'm thinking: inappropriate affect.

 

[BOESP]

I know I am in minority here but I would hire him tokay we can't stand his clients (Ramseys) but he is doing his job and he is VERY GOOD at what he does IMO.I like the guy.And now I running off hiding lol.

Just so you won't feel alone madeleine, I'll publicly admit that I totally agree with you. The bottom line is lawyers are paid to talk and Lin Wood is very good at what he does.

 

[johnjay]

Just so you won't feel alone madeleine, I'll publicly admit that I totally agree with you. The bottom line is lawyers are paid to talk and Lin Wood is very good at what he does.

Doesn't that depend on whether or not a Ramsey is actually guilty of anything? If after 20 years my family was still being suspected of being involved with the murder of another family member, and we knew we were innocent, and the murderer was never found, I wouldn't think my lawyer did a very good job.

 

[madeleine]

pls ignore my typos , :facepalm: this phone is killing me

 

[madeleine]

Doesn't that depend on whether or not a Ramsey is actually guilty of anything? If after 20 years my family was still being suspected of being involved with the murder of another family member, and we knew we were innocent, and the murderer was never found, I wouldn't think my lawyer did a very good job.

remember their interview with M.Kane?IMO he would have arrested them at the end of it if L.Wood wouldn/t have been there!He smelled the danger right from the get go re every dangerous question and where it might have led

 

[BOESP]

Doesn't that depend on whether or not a Ramsey is actually guilty of anything? If after 20 years my family was still being suspected of being involved with the murder of another family member, and we knew we were innocent, and the murderer was never found, I wouldn't think my lawyer did a very good job.

Imo, Lin Wood kept John and Patsy from going to prison so he did what he was hired to do. That's doing a good job, especially with what he had to work with. John Ramsey even said that in the beginning his lawyers were hired to keep him from being arrested.

It wasn't Wood's job to find the killer.

Wood was hired to defend his client(s) to the extent law would allow. He did that. Legal innocence and moral innocence are, in my book, two different things.

 

[johnjay]

Imo, Lin Wood kept John and Patsy from going to prison so he did what he was hired to do. That's doing a good job, especially with what he had to work with. John Ramsey even said that in the beginning his lawyers were hired to keep him from being arrested.

It wasn't Wood's job to find the killer.

Wood was hired to defend his client(s) to the extent law would allow. He did that. Legal innocence and moral innocence are, in my book, two different things.

That's one way to look at it. But if it were me, and I was innocent, I would rather wrongly be convicted than leave the kind of record that is behind the Ramsey's. On the other hand, if one of my children somehow killed another one I might be satisfied that this outcome was the best that could be achieved under the circumstances.

And if keeping me from being arrested resulted in my son being indirectly blamed and haunted for life for something I knew he didn't do - well then I would be very unhappy with my lawyer.

 

[otg]

They were presents for his birthday in January. I've never heard that they were Christmas presents held back.

I don't think it's ever been confirmed exactly what all of the still wrapped presents were intended for, but they had planned on having a second Christmas celebration at Charlevoix with the extended family (possibly the reason for JonBenet's comment about a second visit from Santa), and there were also probably presents being held for Burke's upcoming birthday.

 

[Madeleine74]

The problem is when any of us insert what we would do in a similar situation and then make conclusions about it, that makes for an invalid argument.

It's not about *us,* it's what this family did, what their decisions were, and it was based on their rationale, good, bad, indifferent, or evil. It's really hard to do, but as Dr. Pitt or one of the lead investigators mentioned, one has to remove themselves from the equation and look at a case based on the facts.

Most people go off their feelings about things. Even Lou Smit made that error. "Well I wouldn't do what John or Patsy did..." That's correct, you probably would not. But the case isn't about you or me or what any of us would or wouldn't do.

 

[johnjay]

I don't think it's ever been confirmed exactly what all of the still wrapped presents were intended for, but they had planned on having a second Christmas celebration at Charlevoix with the extended family (possibly the reason for JonBenet's comment about a second visit from Santa), and there were also probably presents being held for Burke's upcoming birthday.

I thought John already had the Charlevoix presents loaded on the plane.

 

[IndianPaintbrush]

To me, all the pieces of the puzzle seem to fit with BDI.

Except for one important fact: He's never spilled the beans. I'm sure he's been asked many many times whether he had anything to do with the crime, and obviously he has never said a word that would incriminate him.

Why in earth would the Ramseys have let him leave the house right after the crime? Nobody could be sure he wouldn't talk. Many kids who are victims or witnesses of crimes are told to keep their mouth shut, and are threatened, yet most of them still crack after a certain period of time.

If I was a Ramsey, and knew that Burke either had killed JB or knew who else had, I wouldn't let him out of my sight, in fear of him breaking down and confessing.

That's the only problem I've got with BDI, but it's a major issue for me.

That's an issue for me too, but it makes sense if you believe that the Ramseys' primary concern that morning was keeping Burke as far from police as possible. It's far easier to deny or refute an incriminating statement made to family friends as opposed to police. Fleet White said Burke asked no questions about his sister that morning. It sounds like the Whites avoided talking to Burke about his sister the entire day.

This belongs more in the Dateline thread, but I was disappointed that the show didn't point out the obvious explanation for JonBenet's statement about a "special visit from Santa." The family was flying to Michigan that day where they would celebrate Christmas again, thus a second visit and more presents from Santa.

 

[otg]

I thought John already had the Charlevoix presents loaded on the plane.

I think that's been said, but I don't know if they had all been loaded, or whether there might have still been some not yet taken. That's the thing though -- we just don't know. I'm simply pointing out why there might be presents left in the WC.

Also note that the presents shown in the photo were wrapped with the FAO Swartz paper. Patsy bought those presents (along with the size 12/14 Bloomies for her niece) and had them wrap and ship them to Boulder. Might that be a reason to peak under the wrapping trying to find something in particular?