Was BR involved? #2

[PositiveLight]

watching the ID show from last night...
Is it true that after the phone call the rest of the detectives and FBI LEFT LA completely alone??? I thought for sure there were some officers left with her at the very least. So many screw ups in this case.
That poor beautiful girl didn't stand a chance at justice. JMOO

 

[johnjay]

Actually we were discussing whether if Burke confessed, could John be charges as an accessory after the fact and whether the statute of limitations would prevent charges against John. Of course its not that simple. Even if Burke cracked her skull, its quite likely that someone else finished her off with the garrotte. Technically if BDI, he is only guilty of aggravated assault, the person that used the garrotte would be the murderer.

As I recall, Kolar talked about this in his book (not the part about someone else "finishing her off", which I find too absurd to discuss. Sigh...) Kolar seemed to me to say that Burke was too young to be held criminally responsible and the statute of limitations for the other crimes is up. (If I'm misrepresenting Kolar's book I hope someone corrects this.)

 

[johnjay]

watching the ID show from last night...
Is it true that after the phone call the rest of the detectives and FBI LEFT LA completely alone??? I thought for sure there were some officers left with her at the very least. So many screw ups in this case.
That poor beautiful girl didn't stand a chance at justice. JMOO

What would be justice if Kolar is correct and Burke did it?

 

[PositiveLight]

What would be justice if Kolar is correct and Burke did it?

Honestly? My opinion would be lock him up in a psych facility. He probably never received proper treatment. It would be for his safety as well as others.
Personally if it was my kid that did it... I'd have had him committed regardless. He was a danger. He's showing no signs of remorse. this is just my opinion though. It's not law. It's not what everyone agrees on. I may be a small majority. I would've told the truth from the beginning no matter how ugly it was. Let the cards fall where they may. I wouldn't have hid behind lawyers. I wouldn't shield my son from proper treatment either. I would have loved him but still did the right thing.

 

[mrseeker]

This is a good question too! Anyone know what legally they could be charged with at this point depending on what they say?

As a graduate of the Google School of Law and as a member of many bars across the country...i did read somewhere that at 9 he could not be charged criminally at the time in Colorado at all so I think it would be true today. Patsy should have let him take the rap and shipped him off to a european boarding school. i bet we would have long forgot about it.

 

[PositiveLight]

As a graduate of the Google School of Law and as a member of many bars across the country...i did read somewhere that at 9 he could not be charged criminally at the time in Colorado at all so I think it would be true today. Patsy should have let him take the rap and shipped him off to a european boarding school. i bet we would have long forgot about it.

Haha! I love the beginning of your response! We went to the same law school! :laughing:I agree if it had happened and Patsy had let him take the fall it would have never made national news. Obviously he wouldn't have even had a clue he was in trouble or anything. I want what ever meds they are on and live in the world they live in. No answering for anything. Denial is great! I want to move there! :laughing:
oh wait I'm an average citizen I can't afford to live there.......

 

[Red Viewfinder]

I have read that when a person experiences a severe trauma, their mental development stops at that point. I wonder about this with BR. He acted just like a 9 year old boy during his DP interview, even his speech and sentence structure was immature. All that goofy smiling also seemed like something a child would do.
Just when I didn't think this case could get any stranger.

 

[No it's not]

posted in media thread, full episode:

[video=youtube;F-wz_e2B1SE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-wz_e2B1SE[/video]

-Nin

 

[Tadpole12]

Just watched the last 30 mins of DP EP 2
Will watch it again at 2pm,
at the midpoint of episode, DP
makes the oddest comment about the flash light
wrt it being used that day to either put BR to bed
or go down into the basement.
Didn't quite catch it.
So DP watchers, listen intently, please.

 

[Tadpole12]

Just when I didn't think this case could get any stranger. RV

Yep.

 

[IndianPaintbrush]

At this point the only possible justice is a truthful confession, unless the Boulder DA finds a charge against JR for which the statute of limitations hasn't expired.

Right now they can't prove JR did anything beyond a reasonable doubt. That's a very high standard of proof, and the touch DNA evidence muddles everything. Thanks to Mary Lacy, many people are still under the impression that the DNA clears the parents.

 

[johnjay]

Honestly? My opinion would be lock him up in a psych facility. He probably never received proper treatment. It would be for his safety as well as others.
Personally if it was my kid that did it... I'd have had him committed regardless. He was a danger. He's showing no signs of remorse. this is just my opinion though. It's not law. It's not what everyone agrees on. I may be a small majority. I would've told the truth from the beginning no matter how ugly it was. Let the cards fall where they may. I wouldn't have hid behind lawyers. I wouldn't shield my son from proper treatment either. I would have loved him but still did the right thing.

As I recall from Kolar's book, a possible psychological problem that could lead to this was discussed and it had good prognosis for being dealt with in a few months of therapy.

I personally don't believe that psychology is such a hard science and such things are well understood - we would live in a very different world if that were the case. But that may have been the kind of medical advice that the parents were given. As I recall, Burke visited some sort of therapist after JonBenet's murder. They may have felt that they dealt with the problem after the fact as best they could - and Colorado law not holding 9 years old responsible would have reinforced that belief.

 

[Tadpole12]

Don't kids just eat chunks of pineapple using
their fingers?
maybe just the sticky handed kids in my family

 

[Hatfield]

The fist episode of Dr. Phil was done really well. DP is asking a lot of the questions I hoped he would ask. This is going to be a better summary show than I thought it would be. I am ready for parts 2 and 3.

 

[No it's not]

posted in media thread, full episode:

[video=youtube;F-wz_e2B1SE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-wz_e2B1SE[/video]

-Nin

Marker 17:17

PR had ordered a customized doll looking like JBR as a Christmas present. When it arrived in a long box JR asked PR how it looked, and PR said it looked like ' JBR in a coffin'..

-Nin

 

[dgfred]

What would be the reason for a ransom note... then killing the kidnapped person there at the same location?

Note has many similarities to PR's handwriting. Left on the back stairs... why not the main ones?

Someone that JB was confortable with had to be there when she ate the pineapple. Only BR and PR prints on bowl.

Does anyone think PR would have worn the same clothes from the night before on the morning/day of JBs murder? Sure does make it seem she might have been wearing the same clothes all night.

Was JBs bed actually wet that night? Again?

Why, if JB was under enough control to keep quiet, eat pineapple and move about the house... would she need to be bashed over the head? If an accident with BR happened... how could one of them choke their own child to death???

Could all the things that happened- kidnap, snack, note... then BR wakes up to eat pineapple and ruins the plan to kidnap? The kidnapper can not get her out without being seen so he/she kills her. Then crawls out of the little window to the room.

JR sure did try to throw some of his friends under the bus... and PR sure did deflect from some of the questions when they finally agreed to be interviewed seperately.

I find their behavior totally confusing and suspicious.

Who/why would anyone make plans to leave the area just a few hours after their daughter is found dead in their own home???

Why would they hire seperate lawyer almost immediately... conflict of interest maybe?

Why didn't they do EVERYTHING to help LE?

 

[zencompass]

In my opinion, "doing the right thing" would never occur to people like the R's who seemed to only consider their outward appearances the most important way to live.
Disregard anyone's feelings or struggles - how they "look" as a family is so much more important.

This superficial way of living including house tours and beauty pageants, when clearly deeply emotional manifestations were occurring with both of their children, was
detrimental to their children's health.

The message which must have been interpreted by the children as they were not "good enough" to be helped - they
must always maintain an external view of the "perfect family". To me, this is a type of child abuse.

To me, the R's behavior demonstrated that they considered prestige and the appearance of a "perfect family" paramount to any struggles/emotional
issues within the family.

I am not meaning to be judgmental but this is a horrible way for anyone to live - stuffing down emotions and striving to show "perfection at all times" is a recipe
for psychological issues. And if there are psychological issues to begin with - well this seems to be a cruel way to live.

This is sad and tragic that these children lived in that atmosphere. Just my opinion.

 

[Tadpole12]

[video=youtube;F-wz_e2B1SE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-wz_e2B1SE&app=desktop[/video]
*************************************************
DP EP 1 Bits
@ 5:29
JR: Patsy was by the phone...
so I said call the police.
DP: (to BR)
Nothing is off limits...
...You speak about it one time.
*********************
@5:21
Narrator: .. the ransom note.
'then Patsy skimmed the words'...
**************************
@11:56
DP: Some people said that you had gone
to great lengths to distance Burke from the
Boulder Police Investigation.
JR: Not at all.
I heard rumors for
well we were hiding Burke because
he was this crazy kid.
Well, na, that wasn't the case at all
Yes we were hiding him
from the media but no
we didn't hide him from anybody
we we protected him,
we hid him
we we were worried about his
physical safety
I mean, we were under assault
by the media and press and
the cameras and people we didn't know
who they were
we just didn't want
Burke recognized.
'Cause he was growing up,
he was not a nine year old boy any more,
he was a 11 year old, 12 year old
we want him to have a normal life.
**************
DP: (wrt Burke) He agreed to answer
any and all questions
and to do so without a lawyer present.
**********************
re: hiding
BR: ..for the last 20 years
I wanted to grow up like a normal kid,
which does not include going in front of
tv cameras..
---------------------
BR: To me it seemed like
it would rouse it up again
*****************
(religious premeditation doll in coffin story)
*****************
BR received an electric train and a bike
Nintendo 64
BR: I think she got a big doll house.
We both got bikes.
**********************
re: last time he saw her
@ 18:43
DP: I think this is the last picture
BR: Really (looks at photo)
DP: That was ever taken of her alive
BR: ha, I don't remember the hair being that
long, but
DP: It's hard to believe that a short time later
that she would be dead
BR: Ya
(see photo, Is hair wrapped around her neck?)
DP: We was you bedroom in relation to hers?
BR: si, it was like, kinda around the corner,
and through the play room, down the hall...
DP: This is your room
BR: Yep
DP: After you went to bed, did you hear
anything out of the ordinary, in
the middle of the night
BR: No.
DP: You don't recall waking up,
hear anything in retrospect

BR: No.
*****************************
M Statton is referenced for scream in basement.
*****************************
JR: Right, we had reservations
to go on a family cruise with my older children
.............
JR: we both got up
Patsy had gotten dressed
I was shaving
...............
JR: we weren't gonna wake the kids up
until we were absolutely ready to go,
'cause they could stay in their pyjamas
and jump in the car.

***************
@ 20:59
JR: I heard Patsy scream my name
and I knew it was
something was seriously wrong.
DP: Were did the scream come from?

JR: it was 'either' the first or second floor....

************
DP: ...when she turns and hands you this ransom note
JR: It's hard to take it all in.
As I recall it was like what
your daughter's been taken
and it's a horrible, horrible feeling
I had that punch in the stomach feeling and
then I was trying to absorb what was 'said'
in this three pages of scribbling.
..............
@ 22:30
JR: I had it laid out on the floor 'cause
I was trying to like read it all at once.
Patsy was by the phone.
so I said, call the police.
*************
re: police
@ 20:38
JR: I wanna get as much
help as I can lay my hands on
to find my child
***************
BR on q about flash light and officer
@ 26:06
BR: to be fair, I didn't know it was a
police officer, it's just kind of..
************
BR: I guess I kinda like to avoid conflict
err I'm , I don't know, I guess I just felt safer there.
DP: Were you curious?
BR: I'm not the worry type.
I'm not the, I guess part of me
doesn't want to know
what's going on , ha ha
DP: Critics would say you weren't curious
because you already knew..
You didn't have to get up and check
because you knew exactly what had happened.
BR: I was scared, I think
I mean, i didn't know
if there was some bad
a guy downstairs
and my dad was chasing off like
gone or you know, I had no idea
.......................
JR: We knew where he was.
He was safe and at that
point that's what we wanted to be sure of.
we were so focused
on JonBenet being gone, I guess..
*********************
re: LA
@28:02
JR: I don't remember being cordial.
She was there to help me.
I was well, I was grateful for her being there.
So she interpreted that as being cordial
So be it.
**********************
JR: I called the police to help me and to find
my child.
********************
re: mail check
@ 28:38
JR: I was looking for another
communication from the kidnapper,
The police should have done that.
But they observed me doing it.
And so John was so cold and callus
that he was going through the mail
locating his bills. So that's, that's nonsense
***************
BR: They didn't say kidnapped.
They said she was missing.
***************
@ 30:38
DP: So where did you begin?
JR: went down to the basement.
DP: Why start there?
JR: That's the most logical
entry point....
************************
JR: I was just going through
methodically every square
inch of that basement .
vs [Methodically going through]
********************
re: finding JBR
JR: ...there was a red spot on her throat
....I didn't see the garrote
'cause it was too deeply embedded
in her skin...
*********************
JR: ... and that was when I was just stunned.
She 'looked very peaceful'...
**********************
@ 34:22
re: LA 'counting bullets' / 'she had 18 bullets'
JR: frightening and incompetent
Beyond incompetent
Shouldn't have been a police officer
re: LA
JR: I think her comment was
'I looked around and counted the people
and then counted the bullets in my gun.
I mean. this is crazy stuff.
Absolutely crazy stuff.
*******
re: rn
@ 36:37
BR: I don't think I've read the whole thing,
I've definitely seen pictures of it though..
*******************
EP 2 teasers:
1 - "What did you find?"
Did you speak those words?
2 - Pineapple ....

 

[Luckymanuh]

Honestly at some point I was hoping there would be no questions to BR just ask him to describe in his own words what he remembered happened from when they got home from holiday party to the events the next morning. Then ask questions.

 

[Tadpole12]

D
P
,
pineapple bowl, close up