Was BR involved? #2

[icedtea4me]

Why would any parent need to use a flashlight to put their kid to bed? Did they have a power outage? No light bulbs? WTH?!

What if John had the flashlight not to put Burke to bed, but for another purpose, i.e. possibly going to pay JonBenet a visit?

I know they tried to get fingerprints off of it, but the prints were unusable. What about a DNA swab, especially at the bottom? (It is phallic-shaped.)

 

[Mountain_Kat]

I think it is very possible, MK.

Ugh...I'll be buried in notes, blueprints and photos the rest of the evening. :thinking:

 

[SCH2326]

Hello! I have been following this case since it happened. I have never posted on here but figured I would give it a try! At times I feel like PR did it...or JR....or BR...o they were all involved because there are so many things pointing that way!! Then I think about the DNA that was found which cleared them all, especially since the new technology shows that the DNA is that of a Hispanic Male. However, I cannot stop wondering and thinking about the "coincidences" of the handwriting, the pineapple, the amount mentioned in the ransom letter, etc. Is anyone else feeling the same way?! It's driving me crazy!


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[Mountain_Kat]

Hello! I have been following this case since it happened. I have never posted on here but figured I would give it a try! At times I feel like PR did it...or JR....or BR...o they were all involved because there are so many things pointing that way!! Then I think about the DNA that was found which cleared them all, especially since the new technology shows that the DNA is that of a Hispanic Male. However, I cannot stop wondering and thinking about the "coincidences" of the handwriting, the pineapple, the amount mentioned in the ransom letter, etc. Is anyone else feeling the same way?! It's driving me crazy!


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No dna ever cleared any of the Ramseys. That is a common misperception.

 

[SCH2326]

No dna ever cleared any of the Ramseys.

I thought it did...back then and recently (within the last 4-5 years) they confirmed the DNA was from a Hispanic male.


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[Frigga]

Well if he is not involved and does not know the truth then he could have built up a lot of resentment in 20 years that her death has ruined his and the family's lives ?!

Did you see any resentment in that interview because I sure didn't.

 

[DatelineFan]

I thought it did...back then and recently (within the last 4-5 years) they confirmed the DNA was from a Hispanic male.


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That's what Team Ramsey would like you to believe.

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[questfortrue]

Burke was apparently seeing a psychologist or psychiatrist for some period of time well before the death of his sister. Those records were sealed so we don't know if his bed wetting was part of why he was seeing said professional. (source: Kolar's book)

Perhaps your book edition is different than mine. (It happens sometimes with different editions.) The only reference I've seen to BR seeing anyone was after JB's death. Here's what I found stated in FF:

It wasn’t clear from his parent’s interviews exactly how long Burke had been seeing a psychiatrist, but it seemed safe to assume that some type of treatment and psychological testing had been taking place after JonBenét’s death. Otherwise, neither of his parents would have made reference to his counseling sessions during their interviews.

JB was seeing a therapist before her death (IRMI). The BPD was unable to obtain permission from the R attorneys to view those records.

 

[SCH2326]

No dna ever cleared any of the Ramseys. That is a common misperception.

Thank you for clearing that up for me! I guess I was reading/watching the wrong articles/shows!! That clears up my opinion as to who was involved if the DNA never cleared them. Wow!


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[SCH2326]

That's what Team Ramsey would like you to believe.

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And clearly it worked!! Thank you for clearing that up for me


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[sunnylilone]

The biggest thing that has stuck out about the Dr. Phil interviews to me so far (besides his odd demeanor, which is uncomfortable to watch at best) is that BR admits to being downstairs after everyone is asleep, playing. So if there is an intruder in the house, how does he keep track of BR? He would have had to waited for Burke to go to bed if he was already in the house waiting with the ransom note that they say he would have had time to write while the family is out. How long was BR up? Does anyone ever ask him when he actually went to bed? I may have missed it somewhere. This also makes the idea of him giving JB the pineapple all the more plausible. His prints are on the tea glass, which is indicative of a child who doesn't know how to make tea just putting a tea bag in a glass. With him being up, it just makes it all the more unlikely that an intruder was already in and waiting, which makes it less likely he had time to do all that was done: wait for BR to get done and go to sleep, not just to bed, to sleep. Take JB. Give her pineapple. Hit her. An hour or two later strangle her. (How were there claw marks if she was rendered unconscious, possibly brain dead by the blow?) Sexually assault. Redress at some point. Find the blanket in the dryer and the Swiss Army knife that was hidden. Write and rewrite 2 1/2 page ransom note, and get out before 5am. Also in his 2nd taped interview with police, the detective asks "What is JB's favorite snack?" To which he immediately replies "She didn't eat anything after bed that night." That seemed odd to me.


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[sunnylilone]

And I still think the rope came from her American Girl Doll. I have seen the AGD rope "spines" at the doll hospital, some are short, some are very long. Maybe a manufacturing thing, where they are at the end of the rope and some dolls get extra?? Idk.


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[sunnylilone]

Those ropes btw are pressed against the doll tan cloth bodies with duct tape. The only two tools that they can't find the sources of from within the house.


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[Mountain_Kat]

Thank you for clearing that up for me! I guess I was reading/watching the wrong articles/shows!! That clears up my opinion as to who was involved if the DNA never cleared them. Wow!


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Well, to be fair, my answer was a little kneejerk. The actual answer is far more complex and nuanced than the one I offered. Technically, you are not wrong.

 

[SCH2326]

Well, to be fair, my answer was a little kneejerk. The actual answer is far more complex and nuanced than the one I offered. Technically, you are not wrong.

Do you care to elaborate? Just trying to understand the whole DNA thing-if they were cleared or not...or if the DNA was tampered with. Too many opinions depending on what article you read or show you watch to understand what are facts are what are "opinions".


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[Lamima]

Now I'm suddenly wondering...is it possible that Burke and Jonbenet were alone at that table eating pineapple? My gut reaction to hearing Patsy answer questions about the pineapple was that she was genuinely shocked when investigators told her about it. I've seen her lie many times, but I actually thought she was telling the truth on this. So then, how would her prints be found on the bowl? Is it possible, at some point, she stored the bowl in the fridge and Burke just took it out on the night of the 26? Is it possible that Patsy wasn't actually there during the eating of the pineapple?

Hmmmm.

She may have put the bowl away from the dishwasher and then BR got it out to put the pineapple in it. I don't think she was there for the eating of the pineapple.

 

[PositiveLight]

Just finished watching DP part 2. Ok THAT episode was much more interesting than the first one. Many more questions... but even more insight on BR and JR.
First question is when did he supposedly go to bed that night if he snuck downstairs. Did anyone see him downstairs?
Did he get in trouble?
Was JBR with him?
I wonder if his daddy is sick and dying maybe and that's why he said this will be his last interview.
I don't remember where I read it or who posted it but someone brought up a good point. Maybe they dodged questions by saying things that were half truths.
In part 2 BR was lying a lot. He was really nervous a lot. When he answered several important questions he looked off a little not making direct eye contact.
Mind you, not everyone is comfortable with eye contact. Doesn't mean they are lying. But he looked away only on certain questions. The smiling continued and still very creepy.
It's almost like he is still that 9 yr old kid in many ways.
I still am unsure which of the two did it but I'm slowly thinking it was PR and BR witnessed it.
Something that probably most of y'all already knew but was news to me was her time of death in relation to the head injury.
45 min- 2 hours later..... that's a long time. That little child suffered that long before finally being strangled !!!!!
See that right there blows the intruder theory out of the water for me. No intruder is going to sit around for up to two hours and wait for her to die and then choke her and everything else and risk getting caught. That with the length of time it took to probably write the ransom note? Nope not buying it.
That would mean the killer spent most of the night in the house committing the crime.
Add to that BR was downstairs playing and saw nothing? If it was an intruder he would've spoke up immediately.
The reason he didn't speak is because the threat was still around him. PR.
MOO of course
Y'all are right about PR having a Susan Smith affect. Wow.
Either way though BR is not balanced.

 

[PositiveLight]

I have to agree though when they discussed the pineapple, she did look shocked. It might have been her only truth but she didn't seem to be lying on that part. :thinking:

 

[BelleIsle]

Okay that interview left a lot unknown. But there is one thing I can say without a doubt.....If BR did not have anything to do with the murder of his sister he certainly does not miss her. Not an speck of emotion or a eye filling with tears from a sibling who is talking about his murdered sister. I know people who have lost a sibling and they can't talk after 20+ years without their eyes welling up with tears. Something is not right here!

BBM absolutely agree. ETA As far as the drawings go, where BR drew his family shortly after his sister was killed, and he did not include her in the drawings...I find this unusual IMO. My youngest child still includes his deceased sibling in drawings of our family and it has been a few years since our baby passed.

 

[HarmonyE.]

Do you care to elaborate? Just trying to understand the whole DNA thing-if they were cleared or not...or if the DNA was tampered with. Too many opinions depending on what article you read or show you watch to understand what are facts are what are "opinions".


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This is not directed to me, but my understanding is that this was a very small amount of "touch DNA" which involved a tiny number of skin cells which may have come from someone in contact with JonBenet's clothing, or may have been transferred by JonBenet herself or her parents sometime earlier through random contact with another person. In 1998 Patsy said she hated doing laundry and usually sent out clothes to be cleaned. My grandmother always sent every bit of her clothing and linens out to be laundered, underwear included. In JonBenet's case, the cells could have belonged to the person who folded the clothes.

A real intruder/sexual assaulter/murderer would have left far more than a tiny amount of skin cells. The DNA here clears no one. An innocent contact with the clothing or a transfer to that clothing from an unrelated personal contact is far, far more likely.