Was BR involved? #2

[andreww]

I find it hard to imagine either parent would have willingly cooperated with the other to cover up JonBenet's murder to begin with for the sake of the other parent. (You are not talking about two people who had a history of amoral behavior.) But, even if they did decide to take part in the coverup, what made them continue on with the lie? If Patsy did it, why wouldn't someone now tell the truth and free the rest of them from suspicion? Or, on her deathbed, why not finally clear her name? The only person I could see them working together and staying united to continue to protect is BR. And I do not think sticking him in a facility or allowing his reputation to be tarnished in any way, was ever an option.

Admitting Patsy did this would not absolve John and Burke from anything. Their silence over 20 years would have allowed a murderer to escape punishment for her crime. Nobody in that family was innocent. They were all complicit in maintaining the lie. They have all spent the last 20 years denying, suing anybody that suggested otherwise, and ruining lives and careers as the went. Pinning this on a dead Patsy would do nothing for them but lose the respect of the few uninformed supporters the still have.


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[SapphireSteel]

Admitting Patsy did this would not absolve John and Burke from anything. Their silence over 20 years would have allowed a murderer to escape punishment for her crime. Nobody in that family was innocent. They were all complicit in maintaining the lie. They have all spent the last 20 years denying, suing anybody that suggested otherwise, and ruining lives and careers as the went. Pinning this on a dead Patsy would do nothing for them but lose the respect of the few uninformed supporters the still have.


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As a child of abuse this sentiment makes me FURIOUS

I cannot remember any of my abuse. None of it.

The only reason I know of it is because its always been there, a part of me, also folk have told me they used to listen to it and wonder if they should intervene (they didn't).

The only incident I can remember is when I was 15 years old and my mother hit me in the face with my own shoe, and that was only because a friend was watching and the humiliation was far worse than the lump on my head.

Blaming Burke needs to Stop. He likely remembers nothing and tortures himself on a daily basis because of it.

 

[Jolamom]

As a child of abuse this sentiment makes me FURIOUS

I cannot remember any of my abuse. None of it.

The only reason I know of it is because its always been there, a part of me, also folk have told me they used to listen to it and wonder if they should intervene (they didn't).

The only incident I can remember is when I was 15 years old and my mother hit me in the face with my own shoe, and that was only because a friend was watching and the humiliation was far worse than the lump on my head.

Blaming Burke needs to Stop. He likely remembers nothing and tortures himself on a daily basis because of it.

I am sorry for any abuse you have suffered. It is something no one should ever suffer.
For me, it is not a question of blaming BR, it is more like trying to solve the murder of JBR. As far as I know, no one knows what he remembers or knows about that night anymore then they know if he tortures himself about it. He has decided to remain silent on the issue for years.
It seems a shame that a group of Internet posters and retired police officers appear to be the only ones around that are interested in finding the killer of Burke's sister and John's daughter.

 

[andreww]

As a child of abuse this sentiment makes me FURIOUS

I cannot remember any of my abuse. None of it.

The only reason I know of it is because its always been there, a part of me, also folk have told me they used to listen to it and wonder if they should intervene (they didn't).

The only incident I can remember is when I was 15 years old and my mother hit me in the face with my own shoe, and that was only because a friend was watching and the humiliation was far worse than the lump on my head.

Blaming Burke needs to Stop. He likely remembers nothing and tortures himself on a daily basis because of it.

I'm sorry but I disagree with you. It is not uncommon that people repress memories of abuse, however I believe it is quite the opposite with traumatic events. As I think back on event that happened as a young child more than 40 years ago, the only things that I remember in detail are events like car accidents, myself or friends being injured, or fights between my parents. Good memories are still there, but they are blurry. Traumatic memories are sharp and I could still recount the dialogue, tell exact locations, and even remember people that were there.

I believe Burke probably remembers every second of that night in surprising detail. He probably replays it in his mind daily.


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[DeeDee249]

It is not a matter of "blaming BR". The fact is that EVERYONE present in that house at the time of JB's death MUST be considered a suspect UNTIL the killer is identified BY NAME. Kolar, as well as other LE involved in case, believe he was involved. The finally- released GJ indictments (which the DA denied existed) spells it out, though not by name. The parents were going to be indicted for OBSTRUCTION and for protecting the one responsible. I am not suggesting her death was premeditated. It may not have even been intentional. BUT someone molested her that night, with enough force to cause her to bleed and scream. The head bash came as a knee-jerk reaction to shut her up. It did. Permanently. That's the way I see it.

 

[Juniorsleuther]

Deedee. Do you have this information to read? I would like. Look link or website ?

 

[andreww]

The finally- released GJ indictments (which the DA denied existed) spells it out, though not by name. The parents were going to be indicted for OBSTRUCTION and for protecting the one responsible. I am not suggesting her death was premeditated. It may not have even been intentional. BUT someone molested her that night, with enough force to cause her to bleed and scream. The head bash came as a knee-jerk reaction to shut her up. It did. Permanently. That's the way I see it.

I'm not saying you are wrong DeeDee because frankly I agree with you. However I still don't buy in to the fact that the Grand Jury figured it was Burke and decided to indict the parents accordingly. I still feel that based on the evidence available (Kolar says that the majority of it is in the public domain), it would be impossible to come to a conclusion as to which of the three remaining Ramsey's actually committed the crime. I think that there is mountains of evidence to show that John and Patsy did their best to obstruct justice though. That does not mean that either of them couldn't be the guilty party.

At its basic level this is a case of four people wearing gloves going in to a sealed room. A short time later three of them come out and one has been shot. The three survivors all claim they were taking a nap and saw nothing. How do you prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. This isn't an uncommon scenario, and generally police would take all three downtown and have all three go over their stories again and again and again. Watch all the interrogation tapes of Brendan Dassey's police interviews and you will get an idea how detectives will wear you down. Unfortunately BPD weren't able to question the Ramsey's in this manor and the outcome was sealed. The only way this crime would ever have been solved would have been if one of the three would have rolled on the other, but that was never going to happen because John knew his rights and had legal representation before a body was even out of his house.

 

[JeannaT]

God bless Burke. His life was basically derailed when his little sister was murdered. And now this. People are still accusing him of murder. I know there are a lot of these case followers who want him to always answer every question, always, always, and don't understand that he deserves to have a life of his own.

He shouldn't be damned to having no life whatsoever because his little sister was murdered.

 

[andreww]

God bless Burke. His life was basically derailed when his little sister was murdered. And now this. People are still accusing him of murder. I know there are a lot of these case followers who want him to always answer every question, always, always, and don't understand that he deserves to have a life of his own.

He shouldn't be damned to having no life whatsoever because his little sister was murdered.

Oh poor Burke. His little sister is DEAD and he has never said one damn word about it. He's lied to investigators and was one of three people in that house. If he's not guilty of murder he's certainly guilty of aiding in the coverup. Ya, God bless that little $hit. I think not.


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[THE BUNK]

God bless Burke. His life was basically derailed when his little sister was murdered. And now this. People are still accusing him of murder. I know there are a lot of these case followers who want him to always answer every question, always, always, and don't understand that he deserves to have a life of his own.

He shouldn't be damned to having no life whatsoever because his little sister was murdered.

Just because Burke was child then does not exclude him from being a possible murderer. Burke will hardly be the youngest person to have committed murder.

If the Parents can be called into question for the murder. Then so can Burke.

 

[THE BUNK]

God bless Burke. His life was basically derailed when his little sister was murdered. And now this. People are still accusing him of murder. I know there are a lot of these case followers who want him to always answer every question, always, always, and don't understand that he deserves to have a life of his own.

He shouldn't be damned to having no life whatsoever because his little sister was murdered.

Shouldn't the murderer be blamed for that?

 

[DeeDee249]

Deedee. Do you have this information to read? I would like. Look link or website ?

Which information? I don't come here that often anymore, and without knowing what you are looking for, I can't help you. Use the "quote" button on my post, so I'll know what you are referring to. If it is GJ indictments, they have been posted on this forum, so use the search feature. You could probably find them in a Google search too.

 

[Justice4JB]

Well his interview was weird and it definitely points out that something's wrong whether it was he himself who has done it or it was someone else, but he obviously knew something..
Him not drawing Jonbenet in the picture caught my attention..
And what was more obvious than anything else is that that family wasn't as perfect as they seemed to be, in fact in the interview, Burke's weird actions exposed them to be as dysfunctional as a family can get..

 

[THE BUNK]

Well his interview was weird and it definitely points out that something's wrong whether it was he himself who has done it or it was someone else, but he obviously knew something..
Him not drawing Jonbenet in the picture caught my attention..
And what was more obvious than anything else is that that family wasn't as perfect as they seemed to be, in fact in the interview, Burke's weird actions exposed them to be as dysfunctional as a family can get..

He also is the only person who we know violently attacked Jonbenet before.

 

[Justice4JB]

He also is the only person who we know violently attacked Jonbenet before.

You mean when he hit her with the golf club, right?
It was an accident though

 

[BoldBear]

This was described as "an accidental golf club swing" in Steve Thompson's Book. It was on her left cheek. The plastic surgeon thought Patsy was overreacting.

Read into this what you like. I read it as children being children and accidents happening.

 

[Jolamom]

This was described as "an accidental golf club swing" in Steve Thompson's Book. It was on her left cheek. The plastic surgeon thought Patsy was overreacting.

Read into this what you like. I read it as children being children and accidents happening.

I am not certain but I think this happened in Jan of 1994 so that would have made BR about 8. If this was a normal childhood accident, why does it get a mention at all? Then on the other hand, based on the Colorado Children Code, would we be given any different information even if it was not accidental? Just something to think about.

 

[Ithink]

I'll preface this by saying that I believe whatever happened in the home that night resulting in JBR's cracked skull was an accident (not premeditated murder.)

Once again I went through various scenarios that do not involve BR.

I cannot get past the part that when the accident happened, a parent would not have immediately called for medical help. Let's say it was an accident, even a deliberate action, as in a rage. At the point you realize what you just did, and your child is injured, you would panic, regret, apologize, pray and lie your a$$ off if needed, but you'd immediately want to "fix it" and get her better. The R's weren't doctors, and the extent of her head injury wasn't visible. In those first moments, the very first minutes after the accident when you'd make a 911 call, they wouldn't have known if she was knocked out temporarily or had just suffered a fatal blow. We know she was alive, with a heart beat and breathing. You would not stand around and wait for her to get worse. Hmm, I can give it 30 minutes to see if my child will die, or see if she's going to come to on her own. Even though so much of this case doesn't add up, that just doesn't add up. You wouldn't wait it out to give her time to die, just in case she might die from this. I don't think the R's were any different than any other parent with the most basic and powerful instinct to save your child's life.

On the other hand, a child's thought process could be to leave her. She's faking it or she fell asleep or she'll come to or I'm just scared to death and not saying anything for now. The R's could have found out 15, 30, 60 or however many minutes later, and with the information of knowing how long she was unconscious, assessed the extent of her injury and realized at that point she was not going to recover. And so the cover-up and staging begins.

 

[BoldBear]

I am not certain but I think this happened in Jan of 1994 so that would have made BR about 8. If this was a normal childhood accident, why does it get a mention at all? Then on the other hand, based on the Colorado Children Code, would we be given any different information even if it was not accidental? Just something to think about.

I'm sorry, but did you just imply that Steve Thomas included this in his book because he thought Burke did it? Isn't this just an example of being through and looking at all possibilities? Or are you concluding that Steve thought BR did it when his theory was that it was an outburst from Patsy.

I also think you're smart enough to reach your own conclusions as to why this was mentioned. I'm just pointing out that it was mentioned as an accident. If you want to turn BR into something more than a child who was dealing with his father's absence and his mother's stage 4 cancer, then just say it. If you think he's a sociopath, then please provide examples like killing animals and striking out at his friends and family without remorse.

I'm fine if that's your opinion, but as you so well pointed out, this was mentioned--it was mentioned as an accident. We were left with no other examples other than Burke being withdrawn and that's not a crime.

Oh and I do see both sides. JB was known to walk though Burk's Lego projects, but I'm not going to make your arguments for you.

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[andreww]

I'm sorry, but did you just imply that Steve Thomas included this in his book because he thought Burke did it? Isn't this just an example of being through and looking at all possibilities? Or are you concluding that Steve thought BR did it when his theory was that it was an outburst from Patsy.

I also think you're smart enough to reach your own conclusions as to why this was mentioned. I'm just pointing out that it was mentioned as an accident. If you want to turn BR into something more than a child who was dealing with his father's absence and his mother's stage 4 cancer, then just say it. If you think he's a sociopath, then please provide examples like killing animals and striking out at his friends and family without remorse.

I'm fine if that's your opinion, but as you so well pointed out, this was mentioned--it was mentioned as an accident. We were left with no other examples other than Burke being withdrawn and that's not a crime.

Oh and I do see both sides. JB was known to walk though Burk's Lego projects, but I'm not going to make your arguments for you.

Please don't play a passive aggressive game. If you want to say it, say it. Don't dance around it.

I think Thomas took Patsy's word for this simply because Patsy was his target, not Burke.

I've heard various accounts of when this happened, the last one putting Burke at 3 or 4, so I had dropped this theory, but if he was 8...?

I'd always felt it was odd that JB was actually hit twice in that incident, on the leg as well as in the face. That to me doesn't fit the pattern of an accidental strike.

But I really would like a definite answer as to how old Burke was when this happened?


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