Was Burke Involved ? # 3

[johnjay]

Hi Johnjay,

What if the parents had been given recommendations for therapy/counselling and they chose to ignore this?

Parents drop everything to attend to their children's needs - either physical or emotional. Did this not happen?

I just have a feeling that they could not bring themselves to be involved in family therapy or individual therapy because they were "so perfect". This makes me
so sad to type this because possibly this tragedy could have been avoided.

I understand what you are saying. Life is difficult sometimes. Difficult decisions can't always wait. I know that I do not have the answer but sometimes
in life we are given what seem like impossible choices.

I certainly don't want to come up with excuses for the Ramseys. I just know from my own family situations the lengths parents will go to making excuses for their children - even angry children who have shown violent and abusive behavior. It usually doesn't end in murder but it often ends up giving other children traumas they have to deal with for life. And I've seen therapists not recognize how bad the situation is.

How much does a child have to act out before drastic measures are taken? What should the parents have done to help Burke and protect JonBenet? The grand jury thought they should have done something. I wonder what?

 

[Frigga]

Dear Frigga,

I understand that the medical records were sealed. I keep wondering about why the Grand Jury came to the conclusion they did. Is it possible that
a doctor testified to medical records/recommendations to the Grand Jury? I am thinking that if a doctor did testify to recommendations and if they
were not followed by the parents - could this then have led to the G.Jury conclusion. What are your thoughts on this? Thank you in advance!

Gosh Zen, I wish I had a proper answer. What I do know is Jonbenet was dead and there is no logical reason, in my mind, to seal her medical records... unless there was something the Ramsey's were trying to hide... keep secret. She wasn't going to lose future benefits, a diagnosis wasn't going to follow her into adulthood- it isn't normal and I'm uncertain if supoena power was used and the Grand Jury was privvy to both Jonbenet and Burkes medical records?

What we do know is they voted to indict but Hunter chose not to pursue it. We'll never know what might have happened but I pray to God that L Lin Wood sues and that both John and Burke are made to sit for depositions.

Burkes medical records being sealed tells me almost more then Jonbenet's do. I happen to believe she was being molested, so right there makes perfect sense why but Burke... well, he was by all appearance a healthy, well developing almost 10 year old.

He was quite tall for his age so he wasn't a failure to thrive or stunted- we've heard nothing of broken bones from soccer, football or little league. What reason on earth would they have to seal HIS medical records unless there were clear mental health issues? I think there were, Kolar does too.

Fleet White spoke to the GJ- thank god- I'm sure his testimony was quite influential towards the handing down of the true bills as well.

God bless Fleet- they sent him to hell and back, the Ramsey's did.

Again- I hope Lin Wood sues. Thank you Zen for your interest in my explanation- I think you're a top notch poster, thinker and sleuth!

 

[TUB23]

TUB23,
There is zero evidence of an intruder, no entry point, no exit point, nothing, zilch nada.

BBM: All three Ramsey's can be linked directly by forensic evidence to the wine cellar, in particular, Burke Ramsey by his touch-dna and shoe footprint.


.

Why did JB leave fingernail marks around her neck fighting the strangulation if Burke already hit her in the head and killed her first? The duct tape that was used on JB, the Ramsey's didn't own and she was sexually abused in the basement something Patsy or Burke couldn't have done. And HI-TEC shoeprints in the basement linked to no one in the family. There is is an entry point, there is an exit point, there's shoeprints, foreign DNA, we have sexual assault, violent strangulation that was done by a self made garrote that Burke certainly couldn't have created and neither could Patsy or John then choke her while she's alive just to "stage" it. Stage what? That would've been murder at that point and these parents have no violent past or domestic violence to show that they could have done this.

 

[RL2]

One question I have after watching the special is, who strangled her with the garrote? The brutality involved makes it hard to believe it was the parents. But I also question if it's the brother. Was he capable of such savage?

I can see Burke hitting JB and unintentionally killing her with a blunt subject, flashlight or not, in a moment of rage. But what the garrote represents is whole other level.

So who strangled her with the garrote?

I think PR thought of her as her own living doll, for lack of a better explanation. I think PR was very selfish, narcissitic and she was able to detach from JBR when staging the whole thing. Just look at her interviews.. No tears.

Murderers rarely use their victim's name. PR says, "I loved THAT child"... She doesn't say Jonbenet's name on the 911 call, it's "my daughter.".

OTOH, JR uses Jonbenet's name all the time in interviews.

 

[UKGuy]

It wasn't a garrote, first of all. It was a cord around her neck, with a snapped-off paintbrush at one end. It was not professional, that was all ginned-up by the Ramseys to throw more red herrings up and make it look as if some crazed pedophile was on the loose. The knots were not "unusually complicated" or anything like that. Yes, a 10-year-old with basic knowledge of how to tie simple knots could have done it. I know it's hard to imagine a young child carrying out these actions, but there are certain children who think about and even sometimes carry out these kinds of crimes.

Heymom,
The forensic evidence suggests it was Patsy who applied the ligature and paintbrush ... difficult to swallow but that's how it pans out.

.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Why did JB leave fingernail marks around her neck fighting the strangulation if Burke already hit her in the head and killed her first? The duct tape that was used on JB, the Ramsey's didn't own and she was sexually abused in the basement something Patsy or Burke couldn't have done. And HI-TEC shoeprints in the basement linked to no one in the family. There is is an entry point, there is an exit point, there's shoeprints, foreign DNA, we have sexual assault, violent strangulation that was done by a self made garrote that Burke certainly couldn't have created and neither could Patsy or John then choke her while she's alive just to "stage" it. Stage what? That would've been murder at that point and these parents have no violent past or domestic violence to show that they could have done this.

Little known fact: the unused duct tape & cord WERE FOUND

Burke DID own high-tec boots.




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[HarmonyE.]

Why did JB leave fingernail marks around her neck fighting the strangulation if Burke already hit her in the head and killed her first?
.

She didn't leave any fingernail marks.

Just because Lou Smit claimed something doesn't make it true.

 

[UKGuy]

Why did JB leave fingernail marks around her neck fighting the strangulation if Burke already hit her in the head and killed her first? The duct tape that was used on JB, the Ramsey's didn't own and she was sexually abused in the basement something Patsy or Burke couldn't have done. And HI-TEC shoeprints in the basement linked to no one in the family. There is is an entry point, there is an exit point, there's shoeprints, foreign DNA, we have sexual assault, violent strangulation that was done by a self made garrote that Burke certainly couldn't have created and neither could Patsy or John then choke her while she's alive just to "stage" it. Stage what? That would've been murder at that point and these parents have no violent past or domestic violence to show that they could have done this.

TUB23,
not owning something does not mean you cannot acquire it. Nobody knows where or if she was sexually abused. The shoe print matches shoes Burke Ramsey admits he owned, never mind his friends saying he had a pair.

Foreign touch-dna not DNA proves nothing and could have arrived on JonBenet via her pet dog after it had been out for a walk around the block.

Any one of the Ramsey's could have killed JonBenet probably Patsy, her fibers are all over the garrote, and guess what because a fictional intruder brought the cord in, those fibers should not be there, LOL.

The case is RDI all day long only LW employees could think otherwise.

.

 

[johnjay]

Little known fact: the unused duct tape & cord WERE FOUND

Burke DID own high-tec boots.




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And the creepy guy seems rather pleased that the shoes couldn't be used as evidence against him because it was his house. He didn't seem to understand that also eliminates what was once thought to be intruder evidence by some.

 

[Cerin Amroth]

I think PR thought of her as her own living doll, for lack of a better explanation. I think PR was very selfish, narcissitic and she was able to detach from JBR when staging the whole thing. Just look at her interviews.. No tears.

Murderers rarely use their victim's name. PR says, "I loved THAT child"... She doesn't say Jonbenet's name on the 911 call, it's "my daughter.".

OTOH, JR uses Jonbenet's name all the time in interviews.

It wasn't a garrote, first of all. It was a cord around her neck, with a snapped-off paintbrush at one end. It was not professional, that was all ginned-up by the Ramseys to throw more red herrings up and make it look as if some crazed pedophile was on the loose. The knots were not "unusually complicated" or anything like that. Yes, a 10-year-old with basic knowledge of how to tie simple knots could have done it. I know it's hard to imagine a young child carrying out these actions, but there are certain children who think about and even sometimes carry out these kinds of crimes.

Can you please post the evidence of an intruder? I am fairly new to this case but haven't come across any solid proof of an intruder.

As for the cobweb....even in the video of Lou Smit climbing in the window, his body takes up the entire thing. And he's not that wide. So unless the intruder was super narrow, that corner of the window would have been disturbed.



As a parent, it's hard for me to imagine such brutality against one's own child. But I've seen numerous cases here on websleuths where parents do horrific things to their children. It happens way too often. I think many people don't want to believe it's possible for a "nice", white, upper class family. But violence and brutality can occur in any type of household.

Do you guys think it was Patsy who strangled her? Or was it Burke?

 

[Heymom]

Heymom,
The forensic evidence suggests it was Patsy who applied the ligature and paintbrush ... difficult to swallow but that's how it pans out.

.

Pasty threw herself on JonBenet's body once it was brought up from the basement - I believe she had an intention to muddy the forensic waters and protect Burke. I think Patsy would have done time to protect her last remaining child.

 

[Heymom]

Do you guys think it was Patsy who strangled her? Or was it Burke?

I think Burke did everything himself, except write the ransom note. John or Patsy might have put her in the blanket. Not sure on that one. Once I read Chief Kolar's book, all of the pennies dropped for me and the pieces just fit better. Occam's razor and all that.

 

[TUB23]

Little known fact: the unused duct tape & cord WERE FOUND

Burke DID own high-tec boots.




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Burke didn't wear an adult size high-tec boot which are the ones that were found in the basement, they were too small to be the same. And no the duct tape was never linked to the Ramsey's or found in their home.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Burke didn't wear an adult size high-tec boot which are the ones that were found in the basement, they were too small to be the same. And no the duct tape was never linked to the Ramsey's or found in their home.

We don't know what size the boot print was.


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[Linda7NJ]

Burke didn't wear an adult size high-tec boot which are the ones that were found in the basement, they were too small to be the same. And no the duct tape was never linked to the Ramsey's or found in their home.

The duct tape was found, near the home and its circumstantially linked to the Ramsey's


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[RL2]

Do you guys think it was Patsy who strangled her? Or was it Burke?[/QUOTE]

PR

 

[UKGuy]

Do you guys think it was Patsy who strangled her? Or was it Burke?

Cerin Amroth,
A little thought and it might be both, with one doing it manually putting JonBenet in a coma and another masking this by using a ligature and paintbrush?

Otherwise you have to argue one person did it all, and the forensic evidence does not support that.


.

 

[RL2]

The only thing that I am 99.9999% sure of... Is Patsy wrote that ransom note!
and, I think John's role in everything was limited...

**my opinion for past ten or so years since I began following this case closely

 

[RL2]

Pasty threw herself on JonBenet's body once it was brought up from the basement - I believe she had an intention to muddy the forensic waters and protect Burke. I think Patsy would have done time to protect her last remaining child.

Yes, I agree.. They all decided that if it looks like any one of them could do it, they wouldn't be able to prosecute just one.

 

[mauidreemn]

Link?