Was Burke Involved ? # 3

[Luckymanuh]

I rewatched the two episodes and I am basing this off what I picked up on the 2nd time around. In my opinion this is how I think it may have gone down. BR went downstairs to put together the toy and either JBR followed him or he woke her up. Heck they were kids that did not get enough time to play with their new Christmas toys from that day being they went to friends house and they were going to be going on a vacation. So BR fixed them a snack of pineapple and made himself an ice tea. They went back to playing and as usually with siblings an argument starts. BR grabs the train tracks and jabs it into JBR in the neck while she sat next to him. She screams PR runs downstairs. She is mad she was woken up or that they were just downstairs (being she had the same clothes on from night before) and that they should both be in bed being they had to get up early to leave. Now this is where it could have gone one of two ways. PR is angry and hits JBR right there and Burke witnesses it or she tells the kids to get up into their beds and that is when she discovers JBR had wet her bed on top of all this. She is now furious because she has to change the bedding and either hits her or shoves her into that dresses that had the curved drawers. Again BR witnesses this and is told to go to his room or runs their on his own to hide, Mom is really mad. He stays in his room even in the AM because he does not want to see his mom.
What made me feel like this possibly happened is because of that 2 hours before JBR actually died. There was no intruder. BR would have ran into him at some point being he was up and putting together a model if the intruder had be already in the house. I think being JBR did not come to or she did and PR did not want her or her son to tell anyone what happened the rest is history. The note and the staging. She messed up with wearing the same clothes and not knowing about the pineapple.
Again this is all my opinion.

 

[fedfan4life]

Is Burke involved? Well, we now know definitively that Burke was downstairs, and we already knew definitively that JonBenet was downstairs because of the pineapple. So...

 

[Lamima]

Are they older or retired? I find older people going by the A&E documentary. The ones who read People magazine and take it as truth. There's a couple grandmas on People forum who have a hard on for Burke and they shoot down everyone who dares "attack poor Burke" or the Ramseys. They spend the whole day there yenta-ring about how it was an intruder and nothing else.

Ah, yep, I think it is older retired folks. There are a couple that are really harsh on anyone that is in the RDI camp. They come up with crazy theories on how it went down in order to explain away all the oddities (like the ransom note). One claims to be a local who has heard things and swears it's an intruder.

 

[andreww]

Welcome to thread # 3 of "Was Burke Involved?"

It will be interesting to read how many of you have changed your opinion of Burke after watching two out of the three interviews with Burke and Dr. Phil.

What a lot of people came away with (myself included) is how in the world could Lin Wood or John Ramsey allow Burke to be interviewed?

Burke is an adult so perhaps there was nothing they could do to stop him. However, I got the impression that Burke would rather be anywhere else in the world than with Dr. Phil answering questions.

Continue posting and thank you for participating.

Tricia

Was Burke Involved ? # 1

Was Burke Involved ? # 2

Tricia, as I said yesterday, I believe that Burke is just being groomed as the one that will carry on the family lie. John knows his days are numbered and that one day Burke will have to come out of hiding, so better that he do it under John and Lin's tutelage. John also knows that once a person goes on national TV and tells their story, it is unlikely that they will one day admit to being a liar and tell the truth. Burke is now essentially locked in and John can rest easy. If John had died previous to all this, who knows how Burke would have handled it or what he would have said? He would have had a clean slate and nobody to pressure him. John now has Burke on record supporting his lies, and if he were to change his story at some point his credibility would definitely be called in to question.

 

[Tadpole12]

http://www.usmagazine.com/entertain...y-that-his-mom-killed-jonbenet-ramsey-w439690

Burke Ramsey Reacts to Theories That His Mom Killed JonBenet Ramsey


US mag
September14, 2016


"It doesn't make sense," Burke, 29,
told McGraw.
"Not to say she never
got upset, but nothing near laying a finger on us,
let alone killing her child."


"Speaking to Dr. Phil about why he
decided to finally break his silence,
he said, "As to why I’m doing it now,
it’s the 20th anniversary and apparently still
a lot of attention around it, and I guess I kind
of wanted to make it about remembering her
and not just another news story."

It’s hard to miss the cameras and
news trucks in your front yard, and
we’d go to the supermarket sometimes
and there’d be a tabloid with my
picture, JonBenét’s picture,
plastered on the front,
or they would follow us around,"
he added. "Seeing that as a little
kid is just kind of a chaotic nightmare,
so I was pretty skeptical of any
sort of media, like, it just made me
a very private person."



********************************


http://www.bustle.com/articles/1838...jonbenet-ramsey-anniversary-is-intense-for-me


BUSTLE
Sept 14, 2016


As A Sexual Abuse Survivor,
The JonBenet Ramsey Anniversary
Is Intense For Me


"One can't browse Huffington Post or
tune into Entertainment Tonight without
hearing mention of her death, and for many,
this influx of coverage is either an understandable
annoyance or something to take passing interest in.
Those who aren't abuse survivors themselves
might not understand why the JonBenét anniversary
is so intense for sexual abuse survivors like me,
but I want to change that."

...

"I'll continue to drudge through this anniversary as
I've had to with so many
other anniversaries of national tragedies,
but while doing so, I'll keep in mind
the countless other survivors who feel similarly
when they see the name JonBenét Ramsey
on the screen."

 

[dogperson]

I would like to see how Burke behaves in other settings. I wonder if he always smiles when stressed. He seemed to be doing it in the interview when he was 11 too. I kind of think he can't control it. If he's uncomfortable that's his reaction.
I wonder why no schoolmates or teachers have never commented (to my knowledge) regarding his personality or social interactions.
I've been an RDI theorist for a long time and still am not sure who I believe did what. The hiding in his room might have been because he knew what happened to JBR or maybe because the household was in the habit of being in uproars. He said his mom was going psycho which sounds like a disrespectful way to describe your mother. Maybe episodes of shouting and fighting were common in their house.
As to him asking no questions, maybe he knew the answer, but maybe that's just how he is. A grandparent I was very close to died when I was around BRs age. When informed of the loss I didn't ask anything. I was devastated and confused and heartbroken, but it never occurred to me to ask what happened or why. That was decades ago and even now I don't know what exactly happened.

 

[Tadpole12]

https://www.amazon.ca/Foreign-Faction-Really-Kidnapped-JonBenet/dp/098476321X

James Kolar
Foreign Faction - Who Really Kidnapped JonBenet?

 

[WhoKnowsWhat]

I woke up this morning thinking that the PR in this case is working for Burke just like CNN worked for John and Patsy. A very bad idea. Was it Mark twain that said "you can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all of the time but not all of the people all of the time.".

 

[Sez]

Hello All, a newcomer to JBR forum here. I think DP saying BR is socially awkward is probably his polite way of saying that BR has Aspergers. This ties in with the awkward smiling and hand fidgeting.

 

[Luckymanuh]

Question.....Has there ever been a approximate time of death? I know they said she was strangled about 2 hours after she was hit in the head. But the time of death could put shade some light on BR story of when he was downstairs that night

 

[buggiegirl]

Both of those kids were wetting the bed. Someone was abusing them imho. Classic red flag.

I'm torn on that one, for sure I know it is a sign of abuse, but John's older children also wet the bed so it could be genetic. Or of course, the only common parent all those bed wetters share is John and he could have been abusing all of them I suppose. I just don't know if that is common though. Does an abuser usually choose one of several children or abuse all siblings? I honestly lean more toward their family just wets the bed for a really long time. The poop issues on the other hand scream abuse of some kind to me.

 

[TeaTime]

It took 20 years before the public was made aware that BR didn't stay in bed that night but rather he sneaked downstairs to play with a toy as everyone else slept. This little tidbit It is not in any book anyone has read and not one investigator ever mentioned this fact. I suppose the reason is that they didn't know.

Why was this kept secret? Did the parents know?

It stinks to the moon and back.

So they left the White's at 9/9:30pm and got home at 9:30/10pm, JR said to DP that they went to bed at 9pm, but has stated before that he and BR stayed up to put a toy together for about an hour after PR went to bed. PR said she stayed up a while to continue packing for the trip. JR said she went straight to bed.

Now JR is using a flashlight to put BR to bed but the only flashlight mentioned anywhere had no fingerprints on it. We have a neighbor who saw what was described as a the light of a flashlight in the DR area around midnight. And we have a few LE who believe that the flashlight was the weapon to cause the head injury.

So, JR puts the kid to bed using a flashlight, leaves it in his room (?), BR uses it to go downstairs, pulls out some pineapple in the bowl with his prints on it, and uses the wrong spoon - okay - JBR eats some and 2 hours later she gets hit in the head with the flashlight so hard that she will never recover.

When asked why he didn't go downstairs during the morning while people were screaming and calling 911 and police were arriving and the doorbell ringing and friends coming over, BR says "I'm not the confrontational type", "I'm not the worried type", "I thought my dad had run off someone with a gun or something".

Sorry. Name a kid, or any person in the world, that doesn't have to pee when they wake up. BR didn't even leave his bed to go urinate? BS!

 

[TeaTime]

I don't want to come across as mean but BR is 29 years old and acts like he is 9. He is a grown man for Pete's sake. Men his age and much younger have been to war and back, are surgeons, trial lawyers, pilots, business execs, long distance truck drivers, delivery route drivers on schedules, teachers in charge of multiple students or even classes of students and this guy is a fidgeting, squirming, whiny, manipulative, 'socially awkward" (there is a scientific term if I ever heard one) mess.

If I read "Aspergers" one more time I will scream myself. Try sociopath instead.

 

[bodester413]

Yes, I think Burke was involved. I had my suspicions about it from early on in the case. When John and Patsy sued anyone that put Burke's name on the possible suspect list it made sense to me in a way. They were using it as a way to warn any of their close friends or family that had come up with the same theory.Do not voice your opinion. I don't know what to think of the Dr Phil interview with Burke. It doesn't make him look very sympathetic. Even with social anxiety and possible aspbergers thrown into the mix.....There's something strange about the whole thing. It's hard to put my finger on. Like others have said..I can't imagine who thought it was a good idea for him to go on Dr. Phil.

 

[expat79]

According to Team Ramsey now, the unknown "touch DNA" belongs to a Hispanic male.

So that narrows it.

A Hispanic male who was extremely close to the family, so close in fact that he knew the exact amount of John's bonus, who knew Patsy'a morning routine, and who Jonbenet felt comfortable enough sharing a late night pineapple snack with.

A Hispanic male who also doesn't have an alibi for Christmas.

A Hispanic male who is also a ninja, since he has the remarkable ability to break into homes without disturbing spiderwebs or vegetation outside windows.

A Hispanic male who is educated enough he knows how to spell "attaché ". ...complete with the accent! (So it would rule out migrant workers)

Should be an extremly easy case to solve. Why hasn't there been an arrest yet?

Answer: because the touch DNA is irrelevent and there was no intruder, that's why.

 

[mrseeker]

I don't want to come across as mean but BR is 29 years old and acts like he is 9. He is a grown man for Pete's sake. Men his age and much younger have been to war and back, are surgeons, trial lawyers, pilots, business execs, long distance truck drivers, delivery route drivers on schedules, teachers in charge of multiple students or even classes of students and this guy is a fidgeting, squirming, whiny, manipulative, 'socially awkward" (there is a scientific term if I ever heard one) mess.

If I read "Aspergers" one more time I will scream myself. Try sociopath instead.

I don't think sociopath. Sociopaths can be quite the charmer. They are manipulative and over confident quite often. Some might be socially awkward but remember ted bundy..so charming up until he killed ya. I would be curious of an objective evaluation of what he was pre murder. Was he a nerdy kid? Did he have problems with others? Trouble fitting in? Or did this bizarre personality develop because his parents became over protective, and well, crazy? I do think this interview was a terrible idea. DIdn't anyone prep him? Was his father off camera? Someone should have said, you look creepy with that smile, knock it off. I don't get this at all. I don't think sociopath fits at all except for patsy.

 

[rojamom]

I rewatched the two episodes and I am basing this off what I picked up on the 2nd time around. In my opinion this is how I think it may have gone down. BR went downstairs to put together the toy and either JBR followed him or he woke her up. Heck they were kids that did not get enough time to play with their new Christmas toys from that day being they went to friends house and they were going to be going on a vacation. So BR fixed them a snack of pineapple and made himself an ice tea. They went back to playing and as usually with siblings an argument starts. BR grabs the train tracks and jabs it into JBR in the neck while she sat next to him. She screams PR runs downstairs. She is mad she was woken up or that they were just downstairs (being she had the same clothes on from night before) and that they should both be in bed being they had to get up early to leave. Now this is where it could have gone one of two ways. PR is angry and hits JBR right there and Burke witnesses it or she tells the kids to get up into their beds and that is when she discovers JBR had wet her bed on top of all this. She is now furious because she has to change the bedding and either hits her or shoves her into that dresses that had the curved drawers. Again BR witnesses this and is told to go to his room or runs their on his own to hide, Mom is really mad. He stays in his room even in the AM because he does not want to see his mom.
What made me feel like this possibly happened is because of that 2 hours before JBR actually died. There was no intruder. BR would have ran into him at some point being he was up and putting together a model if the intruder had be already in the house. I think being JBR did not come to or she did and PR did not want her or her son to tell anyone what happened the rest is history. The note and the staging. She messed up with wearing the same clothes and not knowing about the pineapple.
Again this is all my opinion.

This is a very interesting theory, Luckymanuh -- you bring up some very key points! I had never considered the possibility that the train track prong abrasions occurred prior to the other injuries -- I'd always assumed they were done later -- maybe to see if JBR was still alive by jabbing her with it? But you made me think about this in a new way - thanks for the post!

 

[sgrump]

What dolls did they remove from the crime scene??

A couple days after the murder Patsy's sister was allowed into the crime scene to get funeral clothing. She was given a sheriff's jacket with a badge and took mostly things not worn to funerals including several American Girl Dolls. I doubt everyone there knew everyone else sheriff's office (DA) vs police and it may be she was assumed to be collecting evidence in an official manner. It was arranged by the office of Alex Hunter.

The dolls have tan cotton bodies and tan cotton was found on the duct tape. The company at one time offered using duct tape on the back of the dolls if customers complained about the neck strings tangling with the hair, but one of many options. One doll comes dressed in shedding navy wool and dark fibers were found wiped on her. Smit reported lots of hair was found but never attempted to connect it to a human so the possibility it was wig hair from a doll is great. The DA was told about the dolls in 2000 and did nothing. There is no valid reason for the Ramseys to want the dolls removed other than they were evidence used in the staging.

 

[rojamom]

Question.....Has there ever been a approximate time of death? I know they said she was strangled about 2 hours after she was hit in the head. But the time of death could put shade some light on BR story of when he was downstairs that night

Luckymanuh -- Investigators estimated the time of death to be between 10 p.m. on Dec. 25 and 6 a.m. on Dec. 26. Because JBR's remains had already begun to exhibit signs of decomposition by the time she was found at 1 p.m. on Dec. 26, investigators believe that she died closer to 10 p.m. than 6 a.m.

 

[andreww]

I don't want to come across as mean but BR is 29 years old and acts like he is 9. He is a grown man for Pete's sake. Men his age and much younger have been to war and back, are surgeons, trial lawyers, pilots, business execs, long distance truck drivers, delivery route drivers on schedules, teachers in charge of multiple students or even classes of students and this guy is a fidgeting, squirming, whiny, manipulative, 'socially awkward" (there is a scientific term if I ever heard one) mess.

If I read "Aspergers" one more time I will scream myself. Try sociopath instead.

I think Burke has just been removed from society for fear of what he might say. He was an awkward 9 year old, now he's an awkward 29 year old, simply because he's probably been locked in a room for 20 years playing video games. Think of it this way, if your kid were keeping a secret like that about you, would you feel comfortable with him getting drunk with his college buddies or getting close with his first girlfriend? Your late teens or early 20s is the time in life where children move away from their parents and start making friends. They share everything. I doubt Burke was ever allowed to be alone with anybody until he could be 100% trusted, so its no surprise that he seems so socially inept.