Was Burke Involved ? # 3

[Errrr]

As of right now there is no evidence to say he was or wasn't....we are here to discuss thoughts and theories of known facts. Stating that he wasn't involved isn't a known fact....it is an opinion.

He was a pretty sight kid. I doubt he would have the power to kill his sister. The most likely scenario when one child injures another is to rush the victim to the hospital, where JBR could have been saved. Instead, we are suggesting that the parents finished the job and half-staged a kidnapping?
I think those parents have isolated their son till this point for fear he would go off script and interfere with the phony scenario they swear by. He was heard asking questions on the 911 tapes like he didn't understand what was going on. Telling him to shut up, stay in his room and stick to that story was the best way to keep his playing downstairs after lights out to ruin their story of an intruder.

 

[bonjoviblonde]

I find Burke's comment that his mom was "going/acting psycho" intersting. Why would he use that word instead of just saying his mom was yelling or crying or screaming or whatever? It makes me think that Patsy frequently had bouts of anger and threw fits and he had heard someone else in the home (maybe John, the housekeeper, an older sibling) comment that Patsy was acting psycho while throwing one of her fits such as "Patsy's acting psycho again". We all saw her smartazz attitude and comments during her police interview so I can totally imagine her having a temper and acting crazy when angry. JMO.

 

[Boodles]

Just read Kolar's book on my tablet. Kinda skimmed through some of it but never saw where he stated his theory in full...did I miss it? Or are we to surmise what he thought happened by the bits and pieces (I kinda do but was hoping to read his theory in full).

IMO, he's leading the horses to water. He's smart enough to prevent stating anything that would get him sued by JR.

 

[HarmonyE.]

Burke was not involved. I can not believe this is even a serious question here on Websleuths. I hope someday the real killer is found so this family can finally get some peace.

I hear a lot of people say it's completely impossible for Burke to have been involved, here and elsewhere.

So I'll throw this out to you and to anyone who feels this way - What convinces you that Burke could not have been involved?

 

[Errrr]

I know this is horrible to say but....what if PR catches her husband assaulting her daughter by flashlight that night and kills her beauty queen in a jealous rage.? That way both parents have skin in the game. These two don't seem so in love that they would be that supportive of obscuring the others crime. BR would overhear snippets of planning without any understanding of what's going on so he is silenced for the rest of his life. That would explain why he's so backward.

 

[IndianPaintbrush]

The most common reason people give for not believing BDI is that a 9 yr-old isn't capable of the crime. But there are plenty of examples saying otherwise.

I see no physical reason why Burke couldn't swing that flashlight hard enough to fracture her skull. It's not that difficult. The strangling wouldn't have been that hard either, especially since JBR was unconscious and not struggling. It's plausible that he knew how to tie the garrote knot from his Boy Scouts training.

None of this is conclusive evidence that he was involved. But dismissing him purely on the basis of "he's not capable" is wrong IMO.

 

[mrseeker]

I know this is horrible to say but....what if PR catches her husband assaulting her daughter by flashlight that night and kills her beauty queen in a jealous rage.? That way both parents have skin in the game. These two don't seem so in love that they would be that supportive of obscuring the others crime. BR would overhear snippets of planning without any understanding of what's going on so he is silenced for the rest of his life. That would explain why he's so backward.

IMO if JR was in on it from the beginning the body would have been removed from the house before the police were called. I think he got a better look at the note and realized it was PR but they had already called 911.

 

[asyousay]

The most common reason people give for not believing BDI is that a 9 yr-old isn't capable of the crime. But there are plenty of examples saying otherwise.

I see no physical reason why Burke couldn't swing that flashlight hard enough to fracture her skull. It's not that difficult. The strangling wouldn't have been that hard either, especially since JBR was unconscious and not struggling. It's plausible that he knew how to tie the garrote knot from his Boy Scouts training.

None of this is conclusive evidence that he was involved. But dismissing him purely on the basis of "he's not capable" is wrong IMO.

He was clearly capable as he hit her months before with a golf club and that should of been a clear sign he needed a lot of help as siblings fight but never have I know anybody at the age of 9 hit out with a golf club.

 

[sgrump]

There is evidence Burke's hand was injured on 12/25/1996.

In Thomas' book they reference Burke having some sort of injury from a deer fence while at the Whites. Perhaps it was nothing to do with the fence and everything to do with hitting Jonbenet. If it was a hit strong enough to crack her skull it would have reverberated and done some damage to the hitter as well. Burke was photographed a few days later with Patsy and John when the DNA and fingerprints were collected. I can only think the deer fence story was provided because there was a mark of some sort he was asked about??? I've never read the Whites collaborated the story. The evidence keeps leaning more and more into Burke's camp.

IMO the hand injury was more likely a result of hitting Jonbenet than getting tangled with a deer fence

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Burke was not involved. I can not believe this is even a serious question here on Websleuths. I hope someday the real killer is found so this family can finally get some peace.

I would be shocked if WSer's didn't ask the question, given some of the evidence connected to Burke.

1. The tea glass found on the dining room table had BR's fingerprint on it. The pineapple bowl found on the dining room table also had his finger print on it. And we know that JB had eaten pineapple shortly before her death.
2. By his own admission, BR snuck downstairs the night of the murder, when he thought everyone else had gone to bed.
3. Burke pretended to be asleep through John (allegedly) pushing open his bedroom door, through Patsy (allegedly) running into his room, screaming, " Where's my baby!", through a police officer entering the room. He doesn't stop pretending to be asleep until John comes to whisk him away to The White's house.
4. Burke's voice can be heard at the end of the 911 call. Yet JR, PR, and BR all 3 claim he was asleep. the entire time.
5. We have accounts from friends of the family, and from people who worked in the house, of alarming behavior from Burke...from getting caught naked with a neighborhood boy, to being caught naked with JB playing "doctor", to smearing feces on the wall of his bathroom. And according to Judith Philips, she had seen outbursts from Burke several times prior to JB's death. We know that he had an outburst in school, several years after JB's death, that required the Ramsey's to come and remove him from school.

Given those things as a whole, I can't believe anyone wouldn't at least consider the possibility that Burke might somehow be involved in whatever happened to his sister.

JMO

 

[HarmonyE.]

IMO if JR was in on it from the beginning the body would have been removed from the house before the police were called. I think he got a better look at the note and realized it was PR but they had already called 911.

Curiously though, his fingerprints weren't on the note. He claims he knelt down on the floor to read the spread out note, which seems a little strange to me. I'd have grabbed it and brought it to the best light source to read it. Also strange is that he had presumably hysterical Patsy make the call instead of making it himself. He was clearly the calmer of the two. The note was very clear - over and over - about not notifying the cops, yet they didn't alert the 911 operator of this so an unmarked car could have been sent instead of a cruiser.

 

[HarmonyE.]

He was a pretty sight kid. I doubt he would have the power to kill his sister..

He was slim, but otherwise a normal-sized almost 10 year old. She was a tiny little thing. He absolutely could have caused the head injury with a heavy object. History - and last week's news - is full of stories of kids his age each badly hurting and killing younger children.

Sometimes I wonder if people give Burke an undeserved automatic pass because he was a rich boy from a good Christian family....

 

[just the facts pls]

He was slim, but otherwise a normal-sized almost 10 year old. She was a tiny little thing. He absolutely could have caused the head injury with a heavy object. History - and last week's news - is full of stories of kids his age each badly hurting and killing younger children.

Sometimes I wonder if people give Burke an undeserved automatic pass because he was a rich boy from a good Christian family....

BBM. Thank you.

I really dislike it when people bring size into the equation. I was almost sexually assaulted by a man who was 5'4 and weighed 105lbs. To look at him you would think he wasn't capable, but his strength was surprising even for him. If I hadn't screamed loud enough to wake the whole house I have no doubt what would have happened to me.

 

[just the facts pls]

He was slim, but otherwise a normal-sized almost 10 year old. She was a tiny little thing. He absolutely could have caused the head injury with a heavy object. History - and last week's news - is full of stories of kids his age each badly hurting and killing younger children.

Sometimes I wonder if people give Burke an undeserved automatic pass because he was a rich boy from a good Christian family....

BBM... sadly I do think this is the case. I think also it's partly because the media shows pictures of him when he's 5 or 6 as opposed to 4'5 almost ten year old adolescent pre-teen boy. (I'm guessing his height by what I've seen in the interview tapes, I could be wrong)

 

[BOESP]

Just wanted to add that JonBenet was 47" tall and weighed approximately 45 pounds at the time of her death (see autopsy report https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct..._cjZUGbAGJIKd8CuQ&sig2=yk3XmALKKVMXf7KfbddFSg) .

The average six-year-old child is 4'2" tall and weighs approximately 45-50 pounds.

 

[PositiveLight]

There is evidence Burke's hand was injured on 12/25/1996.

In Thomas' book they reference Burke having some sort of injury from a deer fence while at the Whites. Perhaps it was nothing to do with the fence and everything to do with hitting Jonbenet. If it was a hit strong enough to crack her skull it would have reverberated and done some damage to the hitter as well. Burke was photographed a few days later with Patsy and John when the DNA and fingerprints were collected. I can only think the deer fence story was provided because there was a mark of some sort he was asked about??? I've never read the Whites collaborated the story. The evidence keeps leaning more and more into Burke's camp.

IMO the hand injury was more likely a result of hitting Jonbenet than getting tangled with a deer fence

Wow can you link me to more on this??? This is extremely interesting! Although I do see the injury being more from a rope burn during the strangulation than from a hit on her head.
Before, I was convinced PR did the staging after BR knocked her out. BUT if it is true he had a hand injury.... that might change my opinion. Rope or cord burns might be consistent with the pulling on the cord hard enough to stop her from breathing. Some state that there was evidence that she did try to get the rope off because small crescent shaped marks were noted above and below the cord that equaled the size of JBR's nails. So she may have halfway fought the attacker even with the head injury. Which could cause the injury to his hand possibly if she wasn't completely unconscious. Super interesting!

 

[HMSHood]

I remember reading and hearing that Burke Ramsey was very jealous about JonBenet getting more attention from John and Patsy Ramsey. I also heard he had tantrum issues. If he killed JonBenet, I wonder if he did it out of jealousy at JonBenet. I can see him as the one who killed JonBenet. I think Patsy was involved in her death as well. I suspect she also struck JonBenet.

I would suspect that Burke could be a grudge holder or injustice collector. One characteristics of injustice collectors are they are envious of others. They are consumed by jealousy mixed with resentment. Injustice collectors have been in the news recently. They are often seen in mass killers, school shooters, and terrorists (eg. Dallas, UCSB, Munich, Columbine, Sandy Hook, Virginia Tech, Orlando, 9/11). I have seen female killers who would meet the definition of injustice collector; Jodi Arias, Betty Broderick, Lori Drew, Gertrude Baniszewski, Yoselyn Otrega, and Christy Sheats.

Another characteristic of injustice collectors are they complain non-stop. I do not recall reading that Burke was a constant complainer.

Murderous Envy
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/keeping-kids-safe/200905/murderous-envy

 

[AmyPond]

I find Burke's comment that his mom was "going/acting psycho" intersting. Why would he use that word instead of just saying his mom was yelling or crying or screaming or whatever? It makes me think that Patsy frequently had bouts of anger and threw fits and he had heard someone else in the home (maybe John, the housekeeper, an older sibling) comment that Patsy was acting psycho while throwing one of her fits such as "Patsy's acting psycho again". We all saw her smartazz attitude and comments during her police interview so I can totally imagine her having a temper and acting crazy when angry. JMO.

I don't read too much into the word psycho. If I recall, it was a pretty commonly used word by kids in the 80's and 90's. It was often in t.v. shows and movies and whatnot.

 

[just the facts pls]

I thought I'd share this with everyone:

http://www.cbs.com/shows/the_talk/n...-s-jim-clemente-hints-at-murderer-s-identity/

Jim Clemente talks about how there were practice ransom notes as if whoever wrote it was worried about their penmanship.

Remember BR's first reaction to the ransom note on Dr Phil where he said something about his mother always getting on his case about penmanship.

There is also the theory that PR may have written the note, and she too could have practiced before the final draft. I think this can swing either way in the RDI theories.

Jim Clemente says that the team has reached a "one comprehensive theory" about who did it. Since Kolar is on the team, I am very interested in seeing what he says (I am ordering his book).

 

[HMSHood]

I find Burke's comment that his mom was "going/acting psycho" intersting. Why would he use that word instead of just saying his mom was yelling or crying or screaming or whatever? It makes me think that Patsy frequently had bouts of anger and threw fits and he had heard someone else in the home (maybe John, the housekeeper, an older sibling) comment that Patsy was acting psycho while throwing one of her fits such as "Patsy's acting psycho again". We all saw her smartazz attitude and comments during her police interview so I can totally imagine her having a temper and acting crazy when angry. JMO.

I have read and heard Patsy Ramsey had a lot of anger issues. I saw her handwriting and it does suggest she is very volatile.