Was Burke Involved? # 4

[southernmimi]

I know. My point is that it's all according to Patsy who always wanted to portray her family as why more perfect than anyone else's.

How do you know what Patsy thought or wanted?

 

[PositiveLight]

I really don't believe that B bashed her in the head due to playing doctor. I think it was over the pineapple, because...there was only one piece of pineapple found in JB digestive track...it did not seem to be chewed well (she swallowed it in a hurry), and the fact that B was particular about his food. (When the psychologist accidently took a sip of his drink, she said he got an angry look on his face and said he couldn't drink the rest of the drink cause she had taken a sip o it).

I also don't think B strangled JB at all. I just think that he committed the head blow and then either told his mom that JB was injured, OR he left her lay there and went back to his room. I think he may have tried to rouse her first with the train tracks or maybe J or P used the train tracks to try to rouse her. We just don't know.

My theories are always changing as I find new info.
I actually just said in another post that maybe they were all awake and about in the home when BR hit JonBenet. The rest was staged.
So I can take constructive criticism anytime.
That's what the forums are for. To discuss what we know and try to reach our own conclusions. I enjoy reading everyone else's ideas too. It sometimes triggers things I haven't thought of yet.
Thank you for your reply!
ETA: And yes very good point about how he didn't like his food and objects touched by anyone. That made me go hmmmm! When I heard about that reaction of his.

 

[Afterimage]

Where did you get this information? It was not in the autopsy report. Who ever said that she ate only one piece of pineapple or that she chewed it in a hurry? Please remember not to just spread information that is not fact-based.

I don't remember where I found that...ive read thousands of documents from the case. But no one theory is based completely on facts...there just isn't enough facts to fill in the gaps from when the ramseys got home until the first officer arrived on the scene. If I find it, I will post it, but I don't have a lot of time to do a extensive search for it. I'm pretty sure though that there was just one piece of pineapple in her digestive tract and it wasn't well chewed.

 

[HarmonyE.]

How do you know what Patsy thought or wanted?

From numerous sources of those who knew her cited in numerous places.

You have never heard this?

 

[UKGuy]

I really don't believe that B bashed her in the head due to playing doctor. I think it was over the pineapple, because...there was only one piece of pineapple found in JB digestive track...it did not seem to be chewed well (she swallowed it in a hurry), and the fact that B was particular about his food. (When the psychologist accidently took a sip of his drink, she said he got an angry look on his face and said he couldn't drink the rest of the drink cause she had taken a sip o it).

I also don't think B strangled JB at all. I just think that he committed the head blow and then either told his mom that JB was injured, OR he left her lay there and went back to his room. I think he may have tried to rouse her first with the train tracks or maybe J or P used the train tracks to try to rouse her. We just don't know.

Afterimage,

because...there was only one piece of pineapple found in JB digestive track.

The Autopsy Report does not enumerate any pineapple count. e.g.

Stomach Contents
# "The proximal portion of the small intestine contains fragmented pieces of yellow to light green-tan apparent vegetable or fruit material which may represent fragments of pineapple."

JonBenet might have eaten a bowl of pineapple, 95% of which has been fully digested and the fragmented pieces represent the remaining undigested 5%.

There is no way Patsy is going to dress JonBenet in Burke's long johns and over sized size-12 underwear.

Patently the person who did this was Burke himself. So Burke assaulted JonBenet then completed the staging, from his perspective, i.e. you do not enact staging if you haven't committed a crime.

The parents come along and made it look macabre and complex, so to suggest an intruder with a fetish.

You also have the GJ declining to charge either parent with a sexual or capital offense, what does that tell you?

The Autopsy Report tells you outright that JonBenet was both sexually assaulted and whacked on the head prior to being asphyxiated.

That means however you want to cut it, e.g. Playing Doctor, etc that her death was sexually motivated.

The pineapple is a side issue to such an extent all parties forgot about it, leaving it out in plain sight, until the Autopsy Report cited it!


.

 

[Scandigirl]

I don't remember where I found that...ive read thousands of documents from the case. But no one theory is based completely on facts...there just isn't enough facts to fill in the gaps from when the ramseys got home until the first officer arrived on the scene. If I find it, I will post it, but I don't have a lot of time to do a extensive search for it. I'm pretty sure though that there was just one piece of pineapple in her digestive tract and it wasn't well chewed.

I may be able to help out on this, although I can't be completely sure, and I also unfortunately don't have time to check right now... But, I heard the same somewhere, and I think it might well have been recently in the 2-part CBS show. I have a feeling it might have been during the 2nd episode, when Jim C, Laura and Dr Spitz (and possibly Dr Henry Lee present as well) were discussing their theories surrounding BR, JB and the pineapple.

Maybe someone else might know, or be able to remember, if it was mentioned on the show at some point? Could be wrong, though...

 

[UKGuy]

I may be able to help out on this, although I can't be completely sure, and I also unfortunately don't have time to check right now... But, I heard the same somewhere, and I think it might well have been recently in the 2-part CBS show. I have a feeling it might have been during the 2nd episode, when Jim C, Laura and Dr Spitz (and possibly Dr Henry Lee present as well) were discussing their theories surrounding BR, JB and the pineapple.

Maybe someone else might know, or be able to remember, if it was mentioned on the show at some point? Could be wrong, though...

Scandigirl,
The CBS pineapple theory is just that. Anyway can you see JonBenet scooping a handful of pineapple or just one slice?

So its likely everyone assumes one piece, since it fits the theory, but the theory might be plain wrong?

.

 

[Afterimage]

I think the playing doctor was an ongoing thing with B in the months before the murder but I don't think he sexually abused her that night. I think the parents staged that part of it.

 

[Scandigirl]

Scandigirl,
The CBS pineapple theory is just that. Anyway can you see JonBenet scooping a handful of pineapple or just one slice?

So its likely everyone assumes one piece, since it fits the theory, but the theory might be plain wrong?

.

Hi UkGuy, I agree that anything mentioned on that show might not necessarily be correct- and I especially agree with that when it contradicts the Autopsy Report. I was just confirming that I, too, had heard a recent discussion about one piece of pineapple being partially digested, and was offering where I thought I might have heard it.

I agree that it's harder to imagine a scenario where only one tiny piece is eaten, rather than several. That baffled me, too!

 

[UKGuy]

I think the playing doctor was an ongoing thing with B in the months before the murder but I don't think he sexually abused her that night. I think the parents staged that part of it.

Afterimage,
Have you considered the possibility that Burke was Playing Doctor with JonBenet and that the parents attempted to mask this by staging an assault?

Thus explaining all the evidence and supplying a motive for both sets of behaviors?


.

 

[UKGuy]

Hi UkGuy, I agree that anything mentioned on that show might not necessarily be correct- and I especially agree with that when it contradicts the Autopsy Report. I was just confirming that I, too, had heard a recent discussion about one piece of pineapple being partially digested, and was offering where I thought I might have heard it.

I agree that it's harder to imagine a scenario where only one tiny piece is eaten, rather than several. That baffled me, too!

Scandigirl
For obvious reasons the CBS team did not want to run with BR Playing Doctor with JonBenet, but they needed a motive for BR whacking JonBenet on the head so dreamed up the pineapple theory.


Like BR would leave the pineapple out for everyone to know he was there when JonBenet was whacked?

.

 

[Heymom]

Scandigirl
For obvious reasons the CBS team did not want to run with BR Playing Doctor with JonBenet, but they needed a motive for BR whacking JonBenet on the head so dreamed up the pineapple theory.


Like BR would leave the pineapple out for everyone to know he was there when JonBenet was whacked?

.

That wasn't from CBS, it's always been Dr. Spitz's pet theory.

And now that you mention it, I think the idea of "one piece of pineapple" did come from the CBS show, because they mentioned "grabbing A piece of pineapple" several, if not many, times during the show. It just shows how easily we are influenced by what we see/her on TV.

 

[UKGuy]

That wasn't from CBS, it's always been Dr. Spitz's pet theory.

And now that you mention it, I think the idea of "one piece of pineapple" did come from the CBS show, because they mentioned "grabbing A piece of pineapple" several, if not many, times during the show. It just shows how easily we are influenced by what we see/her on TV.

Heymom,
Sure, but everyone doesn't know that, they just watched the CBS show. The one piece demonstrates why its an ad hoc theory, its simple, compelling but plain wrong, and we all know it!

.

 

[HarmonyE.]

Scandigirl

Like BR would leave the pineapple out for everyone to know he was there when JonBenet was whacked?

.

I think Burke was a clever little scoundrel but I doubt he'd worry too much about the bowl of pineapple being potentially damning. He probably wasn't thinking about digestive system evidence after he hit her.

 

[Scandigirl]

Scandigirl
For obvious reasons the CBS team did not want to run with BR Playing Doctor with JonBenet, but they needed a motive for BR whacking JonBenet on the head so dreamed up the pineapple theory.


Like BR would leave the pineapple out for everyone to know he was there when JonBenet was whacked?

.

UkGuy, I agree with this again. Your theory about BR being the one to place the "longjohns" on JB afterwards makes sense to me as well- as you say, explaining the oddity of them, and also JR and PR's behaviours, too.

Also, I agree with Heymom about how easy it is instantly believe everything out forward on things like the CBS show. I was a little in danger of that myself, although I was very disappointed that they studiously avoided any allusion to "playing doctors" or sexual abuse. I understand why they did, though- I think that whatever their thoughts between them, they maybe didn't feel they could prove without reasonable doubt who was responsible for what within the house?

Whereas the pineapple could definitely be proved to be linked to BR, with a timeline attached to it.

 

[Afterimage]

That wasn't from CBS, it's always been Dr. Spitz's pet theory.

And now that you mention it, I think the idea of "one piece of pineapple" did come from the CBS show, because they mentioned "grabbing A piece of pineapple" several, if not many, times during the show. It just shows how easily we are influenced by what we see/her on TV.

I think I also read it in one of the depositions.

 

[Tortoise]

I've always thought that it looks as if there was blood coming from her right ear in one of the pictures. I can't tell if it's just a shadow though, although it's a strange shadow if it is. I appreciate that there is no mention of it in the autopsy report.

Let's go back to the AR:
http://hosted.ap.org/specials/interactives/_national/jonbenet_ramsey/jonbenet_ramsey_autopsy.pdf

Which says:
Bottom of pg 4-
"The external auditory canals are patent and free of blood"
Top of pg 5-
"The nostrils are both patent and contain a small amount of tan mucous material."

Dragging this back up from a few days back, because I've noticed something in the autopsy report that I hadn't noticed before.

I'm having questions about this medical examiner.

He states -

"..lying on her back with her arms extended up over her head. The head was turned to the right"

then further on -

"the upper anterior right sleeve contains a dried brown-tan stain measuring 2.5 x 1.5 inches, consistent with mucous from the nose or mouth."

then further on -

"On the right cheek is a pattern of dried saliva and mucous material which does not appear to be hemorrhagic."



Indeed, we can see the dried saliva and mucous non-hemorrhagic 'drip' on her cheek, in the above photo. So he doesn't question the origin of this large brown-tan stain on the upper sleeve of her shirt, which would have been next to her ear, with her head turned towards her right arm, up around her head.

I'm thinking now, if her ear was oozing blood, did the parents see this, is this what made them think the head blow was fatal. Also, was there bleeding from her ear on the red turtleneck, washed out and dried by the time officers collected evidence, getting on for 24 hours later. Is this why she was put back in the white top, so they could say she had been asleep and not changed after she got home. The red top would be a sure sign she had been awake.

Was this ME competent?

 

[UKGuy]

Dragging this back up from a few days back, because I've noticed something in the autopsy report that I hadn't noticed before.

I'm having questions about this medical examiner.

He states -

"..lying on her back with her arms extended up over her head. The head was turned to the right"

then further on -

"the upper anterior right sleeve contains a dried brown-tan stain measuring 2.5 x 1.5 inches, consistent with mucous from the nose or mouth."

then further on -

"On the right cheek is a pattern of dried saliva and mucous material which does not appear to be hemorrhagic."



Indeed, we can see the dried saliva and mucous non-hemorrhagic 'drip' on her cheek, in the above photo. So he doesn't question the origin of this large brown-tan stain on the upper sleeve of her shirt, which would have been next to her ear, with her head turned towards her right arm, up around her head.

I'm thinking now, if her ear was oozing blood, did the parents see this, is this what made them think the head blow was fatal. Also, was there bleeding from her ear on the red turtleneck, washed out and dried by the time officers collected evidence, getting on for 24 hours later. Is this why she was put back in the white top, so they could say she had been asleep and not changed after she got home. The red top would be a sure sign she had been awake.

Was this ME competent?

Tortoise,
Good catch. This has been discussed before and people came to similar conclusions. It was also cited as a source for the bloodstain on the pillow. The tan stain might also have originated from a nasal discharge as this can occur due to internal head injury?

With Coroner Meyer stating there had been sexual contact along with a head injury and ligature asphyxiation. I guess he could work out it was either overkill or part assault, part staging?

After all JonBenet was like 6-years old, i.e. the violence does not match the age profile!

.

 

[TeaTime]

I am not getting how a non-hemorrhagic mucous stain on the upper anterior sleeve of the shirt ends up being a blood stain on the pillow in this theory.

 

[icedtea4me]

I am not getting how a non-hemorrhagic mucous stain on the upper anterior sleeve of the shirt ends up being a blood stain on the pillow in this theory.

What if the mucous stain came from her wiping her nose on her sleeve? She was, after all, a little kid and little kids tend to do things like that.