Was Burke Involved? # 4

[Frigga]

I'm beginning to lean towards Burke doing it all- the head bash, pseudo garrote, whatever happened vaginally- all of it- downstairs in the basement after eating pineapple around 10:00- 10:30 pm. I believe the neighbor (who ultimately backtracked) heard the scream around midnight. I think that scream happened just prior to the head blow or as she saw what was coming.

I wonder if Burke made his way back to bed when he was good and sure she was dead and tried to get some sleep before the big reveal or if Patsy heard the scream and found them together in the basement with Jonbenet clearly dead- sadistically murdered- all at the hands of Burke.

There would be no calling of an ambulance if she was found by Patsy almost exactly the way she was 'found' the next day. Even when they learned Burke was too young to be charged he was only one month away from being able to be charged and if the murder was a murder- sadistic and twisted then I can easily see a judge fighting against the statue- if that's even possible. Either way- the police, coroner and social services would be aware of how sick a child was that would do what was done and there would be ramifications.

I absolutely believe that Burke had had dealings with social services prior to the night of the nurder...that friends and family were aware of Burkes situation with his sister and that there was no way in hell that Patsy was going to let anyone dictate how her future or her sons future were going to go. She must have been out of her mind after finding Jonbenet and John went along because he had his sick part in the family dysfunction too that he was protecting. Jonbenet was hidden, the ransome note was written and the police were called.

I think that both John and Patsy were capable of deep denial and disassociation which contributed to the events leading up to the murder. I believe something went down the night of the 'accidental' 911 call and Christmas morning too. I believe whatever video was taken was destroyed- it had evidence of utter turmoil on it.

It has taken me awhile to get here but now everything makes so much sense. They moved permanently into an alternate reality and have never left and Burke couldn't be more pleased. He loved and despised all of them. He enjoyed their torment and forced defense of him for not stopping him when they could have or getting him help after the fact. HE became the puppet master of the entire family on that day and every day ever since. MOO

 

[Vi0l3tt3]

Isn't that what I just said?

Just agreeing with you.

 

[johnjay]

I'm beginning to lean towards Burke doing it all- the head bash, pseudo garrote, whatever happened vaginally- all of it- downstairs in the basement after eating pineapple around 10:00- 10:30 pm. I believe the neighbor (who ultimately backtracked) heard the scream around midnight. I think that scream happened just prior to the head blow or as she saw what was coming.

I wonder if Burke made his way back to bed when he was good and sure she was dead and tried to get some sleep before the big reveal or if Patsy heard the scream and found them together in the basement with Jonbenet clearly dead- sadistically murdered- all at the hands of Burke.

There would be no calling of an ambulance if she was found by Patsy almost exactly the way she was 'found' the next day. Even when they learned Burke was too young to be charged he was only one month away from being able to be charged and if the murder was a murder- sadistic and twisted then I can easily see a judge fighting against the statue- if that's even possible. Either way- the police, coroner and social services would be aware of how sick a child was that would do what was done and there would be ramifications.

I absolutely believe that Burke had had dealings with social services prior to the night of the nurder...that friends and family were aware of Burkes situation with his sister and that there was no way in hell that Patsy was going to let anyone dictate how her future or her sons future were going to go. She must have been out of her mind after finding Jonbenet and John went along because he had his sick part in the family dysfunction too that he was protecting. Jonbenet was hidden, the ransome note was written and the police were called.

I think that both John and Patsy were capable of deep denial and disassociation which contributed to the events leading up to the murder. I believe something went down the night of the 'accidental' 911 call and Christmas morning too. I believe whatever video was taken was destroyed- it had evidence of utter turmoil on it.

It has taken me awhile to get here but now everything makes so much sense. They moved permanently into an alternate reality and have never left and Burke couldn't be more pleased. He loved and despised all of them. He enjoyed their torment and forced defense of him for not stopping him when they could have or getting him help after the fact. HE became the puppet master of the entire family on that day and every day ever since. MOO

That's about what I think happened, although I wonder if the it was Patsy who screamed when she found JonBenet.

 

[ThinkHard]

Does anyone else besides me think BR could have written that ransom note?

I keep noticing how he repeats common phrases from his parents. And so much of the letter is movie quotes. I know Patsy was a drama queen but I'm not sure those kind of movies would neccasrily be the ones she gravitated towards.

So much of it sounds like it's from the imagination of a teenage or prepubescent boy.

I'm sure Burke has heard his mom complain plenty about his dad, and perhaps he was also angry with his dad for all his absences.

If Patsy coached his penmanship and shared his genes it would stand to reason they have similar script.just a messier version of it. Burke probably didn't think of the fact it would look like his mom. Just wanted it to seem like an adult wrote it so maybe he tried very hard for him to make it as neat as possible.

I can't help but notice all the times things are crossed out in the letter, that seems more like a kid thing to do, then a Patsy thing to do. The length could speak to his active imagination.

Regarding his reaction to the question about if his mom could have written it, and he laughs and says no it's too messy.....if he always felt he didn't do things well enough to meet his moms standard, this could strike him as sort of funny to think his writing could be taking for his perfect mothers writing.

 

[Heymom]

Burkes demeanor and apathy during interviews show far more severe psychological issues, they do not demonstrate anxiety and stress, they demonstrate someone who's perceptions are misaligned with reality......in other words what Burke displays, or doesn't....goes far beyond emotional problems.

In my opinion, his brain is definetly wired differently.

I know I keep repeating this, but I lost my mother when I was 10, and I reacted as a normal child of that age. I was sad, I missed her, I cried when people spoke about her, I didn't eat a lot, I cried at night. As I have grown up I cry at different points in my life, milestones that she has missed, especially poignant when I had my first child (he is now 25). I know this is normal behavior, and if someone had interviewed me about her death just 11 days after she had passed, I would have been upset and crying, even though I had nothing to do with her death.

And I would have probably expressed my dismay and remorse at all of the times I had sassed back at her, or disobeyed her, and I remember wondering if I had done something to cause her death. That is due to having a *conscience,* and that is also very normal for a child, not understanding the situation fully (my mother was chronically ill, and died from heart failure).

To all eyes, Burke has none of these very normal responses to a family member's death, let alone one that had been killed IN HIS HOUSE in a violent manner.

Something is very, very wrong with him.

 

[ThinkHard]

I'm beginning to lean towards Burke doing it all- the head bash, pseudo garrote, whatever happened vaginally- all of it- downstairs in the basement after eating pineapple around 10:00- 10:30 pm. I believe the neighbor (who ultimately backtracked) heard the scream around midnight. I think that scream happened just prior to the head blow or as she saw what was coming.

I wonder if Burke made his way back to bed when he was good and sure she was dead and tried to get some sleep before the big reveal or if Patsy heard the scream and found them together in the basement with Jonbenet clearly dead- sadistically murdered- all at the hands of Burke.

There would be no calling of an ambulance if she was found by Patsy almost exactly the way she was 'found' the next day. Even when they learned Burke was too young to be charged he was only one month away from being able to be charged and if the murder was a murder- sadistic and twisted then I can easily see a judge fighting against the statue- if that's even possible. Either way- the police, coroner and social services would be aware of how sick a child was that would do what was done and there would be ramifications.

I absolutely believe that Burke had had dealings with social services prior to the night of the nurder...that friends and family were aware of Burkes situation with his sister and that there was no way in hell that Patsy was going to let anyone dictate how her future or her sons future were going to go. She must have been out of her mind after finding Jonbenet and John went along because he had his sick part in the family dysfunction too that he was protecting. Jonbenet was hidden, the ransome note was written and the police were called.

I think that both John and Patsy were capable of deep denial and disassociation which contributed to the events leading up to the murder. I believe something went down the night of the 'accidental' 911 call and Christmas morning too. I believe whatever video was taken was destroyed- it had evidence of utter turmoil on it.

It has taken me awhile to get here but now everything makes so much sense. They moved permanently into an alternate reality and have never left and Burke couldn't be more pleased. He loved and despised all of them. He enjoyed their torment and forced defense of him for not stopping him when they could have or getting him help after the fact. HE became the puppet master of the entire family on that day and every day ever since. MOO

100% agree!

 

[Heymom]

That's about what I think happened, although I wonder if the it was Patsy who screamed when she found JonBenet.

Yes, I think the scream may well have been Patsy, and that they found JonBenet before midnight on 12/25, thus her death date on her tombstone. They knew she had been dead before the 26th. Otherwise Patsy certainly would have already changed clothing and gone to bed, which she never did on that night.

 

[ThinkHard]

That's about what I think happened, although I wonder if the it was Patsy who screamed when she found JonBenet.

Yes I agree it could be either. I wish we knew more about that scream.

For one a child's screech is distinct from an adults.

But there is also a difference between a pain scream (JB), a frightened scream (JB), and I shocked scream (PR). Was it one scream or was it screams? How long was the scream? ..... Wish we knew!

If its Patsy's scream of shock, it means she would have arrived at the scene early on and certainly been a big part of the coverup. If they were JBR's that leaves it open to Burke doing it all, including most of the coverup.

 

[HarmonyE.]

Yes, I think the scream may well have been Patsy, and that they found JonBenet before midnight on 12/25, thus her death date on her tombstone. They knew she had been dead before the 26th. Otherwise Patsy certainly would have already changed clothing and gone to bed, which she never did on that night.

I've always figured it was Patsy discovering her daughter. If it was high-pitched enough, I can absolutely see a neighbor thinking it was a child.

 

[Vi0l3tt3]

I've always thought that they knew that she died on the 25th as well since that is what is engraved on her tombstone. Patsy seemed like the sort of person who would never have slept in the same clothing she wore that day or put it on again immediately in the morning. It just doesn't sit right with me. I believe that she never changed clothing nor did she sleep that night. I am also inclined to believe that the scream was hers and it was one of shock upon discovering the body of JBR.

 

[ThinkHard]

Ok say Burke did it all....the pineapple, the head, the garrot, the vaginal injuries, the clean up, the staging, the ransom note.....and say Patsy IS telling the truth about finding the ransom note on the stairs.....and finding that note is the first time she comes into the picture.

She runs up to get JR and shows him the note, they immediately call 911, but at the same time the reality of her children's recent and escalating issues comes to mind, as it simultaneously does to JR, and the "oh *advertiser censored*" moment enters their mind, but they already called 911.

They "hang up" now with the full weight of this reality in their minds because they recognize the writing, or quotes from favorite movies BR loves. Enters Burke....who has been patiently waiting in his room since he finished fir his parents to wake up and discover the note he left. He hears them and enters "what did you find"......

leaving the parents less then 10 minutes to process these thoughts and present to police, still not knowing fully what happened.

Maybe when JR disappeared he was talking to Burke and Burke finally told him where the body is, which is why he went down and found her post disappearance.

So imagine, two parents with a missing kid they know their other child is responsible for, with BDP on their way over, and they don't know what he did to her, they just know he did something....so he's banished to his room basically on confinement until they get a chance alone with him to get some answers.

Then when he confesses he's sent to the whites to avoid any police questions on him. They don't fear he will speak because what kid likes admitting they have done something wrong. Getting kids to fess up to wrong doings take effort, it's unlikely something you would have willingly wanted the whites to know. And gladly kept his mouth shut.

 

[mrseeker]

I've always figured it was Patsy discovering her daughter. If it was high-pitched enough, I can absolutely see a neighbor thinking it was a child.

If she did, why would she not react physically too? When JR found her body he tore the tape away and scooped her up. In addition to screaming, why would not PR take the garrote off and remove the cords? I am not saying you are wrong, but if the 9 yo BR garroted her and assaulted her with a wooden object, that would mean he is a very sick boy. Hitting her on the head is one thing, but the rest is pathological. So if he just hit her on the head, and PR wrote the note, she then would be the one garrotting the girl to complete her staging. The desecration of the body just seems so extreme for a mother to do unless she is mentally sick.
I do think PR wrote the note. I think she or BR committed the initial deadly blow to the head first. I have thought there was a period of time PR cared for her and then thinking she was dead, staged the body as she did. But it is confusing, why would she stage the elaborate kidnapping for ransom upstairs, but stage the body for a kidnaping by a sexual predator? It is my belief the note was to get JR out of the house that morning so she could move the body undetected. But why not stick with the ransom theme. A blow to the head might be something that would happen in a kidnapping by violent kidnapper. I don't think PR was in her right mind anyway so that might explain the confused staging. I think she abused prescription pills. Maybe she read too many books. Her note was over the top so maybe her staging of the body would be. I do feel if JR had been involved before the 911 call the body would have been moved to a roadside somewhere before the police were called. I also don't think JR would have gone along with that ridiculously written note. So I guess I am asking, do you think BR garrotted his sister after hitting her?

 

[johnjay]

I've always thought that they knew that she died on the 25th as well since that is what is engraved on her tombstone. Patsy seemed like the sort of person who would never have slept in the same clothing she wore that day or put it on again immediately in the morning. It just doesn't sit right with me. I believe that she never changed clothing nor did she sleep that night. I am also inclined to believe that the scream was hers and it was one of shock upon discovering the body of JBR.

I think you're right, but if JBR did die on the 26th and Patsy knew that, I could still see her putting 25th on the tombstone just for the image of JBR sharing the day with Jesus.

 

[ThinkHard]

I worked with a ten year old girl once, and she experienced suicidal thoughts. What is more shocking then her age is what she disclosed to me in regards to these thoughts.

She once confessed that if she were ever to execute it she would have to stage it to look like a kidnapping and murder. She had it planned out to the detail. She would be walking home from school and make it look like she had been kidnapped and then hung from a tree in the woods. She said to the police it would look she had been dragged back, leaving a shoes along the way....she said she could drag two thick sticks along behind her to look as though she had been dragged. She even had specific about where her backpack would be found. The level of thought and detail and crime scene awareness by a ten year old child was alarming!

I asked her why she would go through so much detail, she said.....because I know either way it will cause my parents pain, but if it looks like a stranger did this too me they will have less guilt. They will still feel responsible, but not as much as if they think I took my own life. If they think that, they will think they did something wrong and they haven't. They are wonderful, I am just broken, it's not their fault and I don't want them to think it is.

I can't help but think about this child when I think about Burke. Could Burke have planned all the staging himself?

Could he have even walk around outside and crawled back through the window and out trying to leave some evidence but because he is thinner actually managed to not disturb the cobweb?

 

[Vi0l3tt3]

I think you're right, but if JBR did die on the 26th and Patsy knew that, I could still see her putting 25th on the tombstone just for the image of JBR sharing the day with Jesus.

True, we know that Patsy was all about image!

 

[cubbeegirl]

I'm beginning to lean towards Burke doing it all- the head bash, pseudo garrote, whatever happened vaginally- all of it- downstairs in the basement after eating pineapple around 10:00- 10:30 pm. I believe the neighbor (who ultimately backtracked) heard the scream around midnight. I think that scream happened just prior to the head blow or as she saw what was coming.

I wonder if Burke made his way back to bed when he was good and sure she was dead and tried to get some sleep before the big reveal or if Patsy heard the scream and found them together in the basement with Jonbenet clearly dead- sadistically murdered- all at the hands of Burke.

There would be no calling of an ambulance if she was found by Patsy almost exactly the way she was 'found' the next day. Even when they learned Burke was too young to be charged he was only one month away from being able to be charged and if the murder was a murder- sadistic and twisted then I can easily see a judge fighting against the statue- if that's even possible. Either way- the police, coroner and social services would be aware of how sick a child was that would do what was done and there would be ramifications.

I absolutely believe that Burke had had dealings with social services prior to the night of the nurder...that friends and family were aware of Burkes situation with his sister and that there was no way in hell that Patsy was going to let anyone dictate how her future or her sons future were going to go. She must have been out of her mind after finding Jonbenet and John went along because he had his sick part in the family dysfunction too that he was protecting. Jonbenet was hidden, the ransome note was written and the police were called.

I think that both John and Patsy were capable of deep denial and disassociation which contributed to the events leading up to the murder. I believe something went down the night of the 'accidental' 911 call and Christmas morning too. I believe whatever video was taken was destroyed- it had evidence of utter turmoil on it.

It has taken me awhile to get here but now everything makes so much sense. They moved permanently into an alternate reality and have never left and Burke couldn't be more pleased. He loved and despised all of them. He enjoyed their torment and forced defense of him for not stopping him when they could have or getting him help after the fact. HE became the puppet master of the entire family on that day and every day ever since. MOO

Same here..it's taken awhile , but now it all seems crystal clear ..

 

[Vi0l3tt3]

I worked with a ten year old girl once, and she experienced suicidal thoughts. What is more shocking then her age is what she disclosed to me in regards to these thoughts.

She once confessed that if she were ever to execute it she would have to stage it to look like a kidnapping and murder. She had it planned out to the detail. She would be walking home from school and make it look like she had been kidnapped and then hung from a tree in the woods. She said to the police it would look she had been dragged back, leaving a shoes along the way....she said she could drag two thick sticks along behind her to look as though she had been dragged. She even had specific about where her backpack would be found. The level of thought and detail and crime scene awareness by a ten year old child was alarming!

I asked her why she would go through so much detail, she said.....because I know either way it will cause my parents pain, but if it looks like a stranger did this too me they will have less guilt. They will still feel responsible, but not as much as if they think I took my own life. If they think that, they will think they did something wrong and they haven't. They are wonderful, I am just broken, it's not their fault and I don't want them to think it is.

I can't help but think about this child when I think about Burke. Could Burke have planned all the staging himself?

Could he have even walk around outside and crawled back through the window and out trying to leave some evidence but because he is thinner actually managed to not disturb the cobweb?

I think that it's possible that he could have planned it all himself. It would have taken a very intelligent 9 year old to know that he would need to wipe down the body because of dna and things though. Do we know anything about Burke's level of intelligence and critical thinking skills during this time? Or his school performance?

 

[SecretaryGal]

Ok say Burke did it all....the pineapple, the head, the garrot, the vaginal injuries, the clean up, the staging, the ransom note.....and say Patsy IS telling the truth about finding the ransom note on the stairs.....and finding that note is the first time she comes into the picture.

She runs up to get JR and shows him the note, they immediately call 911, but at the same time the reality of her children's recent and escalating issues comes to mind, as it simultaneously does to JR, and the "oh *advertiser censored*" moment enters their mind, but they already called 911.

They "hang up" now with the full weight of this reality in their minds because they recognize the writing, or quotes from favorite movies BR loves. Enters Burke....who has been patiently waiting in his room since he finished fir his parents to wake up and discover the note he left. He hears them and enters "what did you find"......

leaving the parents less then 10 minutes to process these thoughts and present to police, still not knowing fully what happened.

Maybe when JR disappeared he was talking to Burke and Burke finally told him where the body is, which is why he went down and found her post disappearance.

So imagine, two parents with a missing kid they know their other child is responsible for, with BDP on their way over, and they don't know what he did to her, they just know he did something....so he's banished to his room basically on confinement until they get a chance alone with him to get some answers.

Then when he confesses he's sent to the whites to avoid any police questions on him. They don't fear he will speak because what kid likes admitting they have done something wrong. Getting kids to fess up to wrong doings take effort, it's unlikely something you would have willingly wanted the whites to know. And gladly kept his mouth shut.

This is very interesting. So many have said that there is no way BR could have done this or done that.
Why not the garrotte and the ransom note? I'm not saying he did, but this is very interesting to discuss. ThinkHard, tell me more....

 

[ThinkHard]

I think that it's possible that he could have planned it all himself. It would have taken a very intelligent 9 year old to know that he would need to wipe down the body because of dna and things though. Do we know anything about Burke's level of intelligence and critical thinking skills during this time? Or his school performance?

We do not. But I will say in my experience, is the kids with "issues" even with LD's tend to be highly highly intelligent....and often in more abstract ways. They do not often excell in school however.

 

[ThinkHard]

This is very interesting. So many have said that there is no way BR could have done this or done that.
Why not the garrotte and the ransom note? I'm not saying he did, but this is very interesting to discuss. ThinkHard, tell me more....

....well if you keep moving forward it would also stand to reason why a lawyer comes into the picture early on....the parents are trying to unravel this story themselves while the police are in the house.

They only have limited information from Burke, who knows how much he would have fessed up to or how much detail you would have given them, how much they gathered btw the 911 call and the PD arrival, how much was gathered later when JR snuck off to speak to Burke.

But I'd assume it wouldn't be the whole story. In this context JR's comments of he didn't mean to and he wrapped her in a blanket make sense. They hadn't developed their cover stories yet, they were still in shock, and he was genuinely reacting to finding his daughter after his son confessed to where she could be found and the gist of what went down. I'm sure he nelt down and sobbed before carrying her back up. He knew who did it so he wasn't thinking about the evidence he was destroying, but he also wasn't going to tell BDP his son was responsible yet. Perhaps he felt Patsy deserved to hear the whole story first, and he was still processing it himself.

I think it's possible at this point they weren't thinking of a cover up, but we're just saying we can't tell the police anything yet until we get a chance to speak with Burke further.

They speak with lawyers, they maybe even say what happened, the lawyer advises them to keep their mouths shut if they want to keep their son living with them, and avoid child endangerment charges themselves. It is t a lawyers job to out out the truth, his job is to avoid charges against his client any way possible within the constraints of the law. The advise and the strategy begins and it's what we have seen ever since....deflect and leave reasonable doubt.

It would explain a lot of the weirdness at interviews etc. who knows how many details Burke shared with them, maybe certain things were genuinely a surprise to her, but because she knew more then she was letting on c,ear,y, we assume every bit is a lie.