Was Burke Involved? # 4

[Heymom]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/18475...sey-murder-after-experts-blame-him-for-death/

Found this today

Amazingly unsensational and accurate for The Sun! The photos they included of Burke show how inappropriate his expressions are, for the situation. Who grins like that when discussing the murder of a sibling???

The phrase he used to describe Patsy's frantic search for JonBenet, was "going psycho." That implies that he thinks it is NBD that his sister is missing, and his mom is over-reacting. He states this in an offhand way, with smiles. He enjoyed this reaction from his mother. I think if he could only tell someone about what he really did to JonBenet, we'd see the biggest smiles of all.

 

[ThinkHard]

I have seen it mentioned a lot that Burke may be autistic/aspergers. To me he seems bipolar or something similar. They can get into a rage with super human strength. Has anyone confirmed/denied this?

No I don't see either, maybe the traits of ASD, but it's far beyond that or an anxiety disorder. it's likely he has comorbid conditions. But I'm thinking more along the line of psychosis.

 

[SecretaryGal]

Exactly. So many things make sense if Burke was the culprit. I believe he did everything except the clean-up and redressing and the ransom note. I do not believe that either parent did anything to "finish off" JonBenet - I am certain they found her already dead before midnight on 12/25, and that is why her death date on her headstone declares that to be so. I do wonder whose idea it really was to stage a false crime, however. We'd have to know who was abusing JonBenet to know that - who had the most to lose?

I know some people here think he could have even written that, but having had 2 boys, I can say that getting them to write 3 pages at age 9 was almost impossible, and the CBS show demonstrated that it took adults about 25 minutes to copy the note, not taking into account that Patsy would have had to compose it or draft it before she actually wrote it out. That ransom novella must have taken at least an hour out of the timeline.

What if the note was written ahead of time and he was just copying it?

 

[Heymom]

I didn't know that, he didn't think some punishment was deserved also?

No, he never mentioned any kind of punishment. The reporter was so surprised at his unhesitating response of "forgiveness," that he repeated the question again and got the same response.

 

[ThinkHard]

The GJ voted to indict his parents for covering up for a Murder and reckless endangerment of JonBenet - and that can only mean that they didn't protect her from Burke. Now 20 years later, we can all see how the cat got his tongue when a bowel of pineapples was put in front of his face. And CBS calls him out as the killer of his sister. He had a get out of jail free card because he was a couple of weeks shy of being old enough to be criminally charged and now, thanks to CBS and his sorry performance on Dr. Phil, most people believe he killed his sister. It doesn't only matter if he cares, it also matters that many of the rest of us care.

Right. But your assuming he cares what the rest of the world thinks of him and that, that will somehow be punishment. But it's unlikely he cares, more likely he likes it.....because he knows no matter what public opinion thinks, he can't be prosecuted.

 

[johnjay]

Amazingly unsensational and accurate for The Sun! The photos they included of Burke show how inappropriate his expressions are, for the situation. Who grins like that when discussing the murder of a sibling???

The phrase he used to describe Patsy's frantic search for JonBenet, was "going psycho." That implies that he thinks it is NBD that his sister is missing, and his mom is over-reacting. He states this in an offhand way, with smiles. He enjoyed this reaction from his mother. I think if he could only tell someone about what he really did to JonBenet, we'd see the biggest smiles of all.

The lie detector offer headline didn't match the actual quote of Lin Woods. An offer to consider something is not an offer to do something.

 

[ThinkHard]

Surely you're not going to tar a whole generation with Burke behavior. Most children of the 90s know a bit about empathy.

My point is the word psycho was tossed around a lot by kids in the 90's, so it was a phrase with not much weight to it.
Remember this is a time when the same generation used the phrase "that's so gay" a lot too.....it certainly doesn't mean the 90's raised a whole generation of empathy lacking homophobes.....to kids these were just words....not a sign of emotional problems.

I think your just making a bigger deal out of that phrasing than it likely had, of course that just my opinion.

 

[SecretaryGal]

I'm not well versed -or versed at all- in legal terms and interpreting all that, but couldn't it also mean that the GJ didn't know which parent was primarily responsible so both were charged? I always assumed it was something like that. Until I came around to BDI.

No.

The grand jury true bill said PR and JR "did ... permit a child to be unreasonably placed in a situation which posed a threat of injury to the child's life or health which resulted in the death of JonBenet Ramsey, that each parent "did ... render assistance to a person, with intent to hinder, delay and prevent the discovery, detention, apprehension, prosecution, conviction and punishment of such person for the commission of a crime, knowing the person being assisted has committed and was suspected of the crime of murder in the first degree and child abuse resulting in death."

If one of them was charged with helping the other (PR and JR), one of THEM would have been charged with murder; and hence, a third person was involved.
The person is not named (because he was underage and not culpable). Only one other person in house.

 

[Heymom]

My point is the word psycho was tossed around a lot by kids in the 90's, so it was a phrase with not much weight to it.
Remember this is a time when the same generation used the phrase "that's so gay" a lot too.....it certainly doesn't mean the 90's raised a whole generation of empathy lacking homophobes.....to kids these were kits words....not a sign of emotional problems.

I think your just making a bigger deal out of that phrasing that it likely had.

But in the context he used it, with the smile and/or slight laugh as he described his mother trying to find his sister (who was later found murdered, according to the narrative), it is highly inappropriate. There was a very good reason for Patsy to be "going psycho" and most people would understand that is not a word choice that is appropriate in that context. Empathy would mean you would say, "My mom was scared and her voice was scary to me too..." or some such.

 

[Heymom]

The lie detector offer headline didn't match the actual quote of Lin Woods. An offer to consider something is not an offer to do something.

Well most headlines in The Sun don't match the rest of the articles....I just read the text and didn't focus on the headline, my bad.

 

[johnjay]

My point is the word psycho was tossed around a lot by kids in the 90's, so it was a phrase with not much weight to it.
Remember this is a time when the same generation used the phrase "that's so gay" a lot too.....it certainly doesn't mean the 90's raised a whole generation of empathy lacking homophobes.....to kids these were kits words....not a sign of emotional problems.

I think your just making a bigger deal out of that phrasing that it likely had.

If I was only going by that one phrase in Burke's interview then I could discount it, but since throughout the Dr. Phil interview he gave the impression of caring less about his sisters murder then we would of cared about his Nintendo breaking, I think his going psycho phrase is telling. By now, most of us know who really went psycho in that house that night.

 

[ThinkHard]

ThinkHard: Pure speculation, since the D.A. granted that island of privacy regarding Burke's medical records, (another one of those ah-ha makes sense now things) but what type of meds - if any - do you think Burke MIGHT have been on?

IF they were actually getting him help, it would depend on his diagnosis. Personally I am very anti-medicating children that young, as their brains are still developing, but some parents choose it anyway because it's easier to control their kid when they are doped up, and some unfortunately their just isn't an option.

Also this was 20 yrs ago so meds available then and now would have differed in some regards. But I would guess mood stabilizers, perhaps antipsychotics (but this would be less common in children 20 years ago).....perhaps something like Lithium.

But again it depends what his diagnosis was at the time, not neccasarily what he really has.

 

[Heymom]

My point is the word psycho was tossed around a lot by kids in the 90's, so it was a phrase with not much weight to it.
Remember this is a time when the same generation used the phrase "that's so gay" a lot too.....it certainly doesn't mean the 90's raised a whole generation of empathy lacking homophobes.....to kids these were kits words....not a sign of emotional problems.

I think your just making a bigger deal out of that phrasing that it likely had.

"That's so gay" didn't become a catch-phrase until much later in the 2000's. My sons were in middle school so that would have been 2005 or later.

 

[ThinkHard]

What if the note was written ahead of time and he was just copying it?

Oooh good thought!

One thing I keep coming back to are all the cross outs, that just doesn't seem like a Patsy thing, and especially not if she was trying to look like a professional foreign faction.

That part of it makes me think of the way a kid would hand in an assignment, overlooking those details.

 

[Vi0l3tt3]

"That's so gay" didn't become a catch-phrase until much later in the 2000's. My sons were in middle school so that would have been 2005 or later.

I was in middle school in 1998 and it was a catch phrase then.

 

[Heymom]

I was in middle school in 1998 and it was a catch phrase then.

Well, whatever, maybe my sons were socially retarded. But we are arguing about something that is quite indicative of Burke's attitude toward Patsy and toward what happened that morning. Stating that his mom was "going psycho" is denigrating her for freaking out about JonBenet's absence and/or death. HIGHLY inappropriate then and now.

 

[ThinkHard]

But in the context he used it, with the smile and/or slight laugh as he described his mother trying to find his sister (who was later found murdered, according to the narrative), it is highly inappropriate. There was a very good reason for Patsy to be "going psycho" and most people would understand that is not a word choice that is appropriate in that context. Empathy would mean you would say, "My mom was scared and her voice was scary to me too..." or some such.

No, not neccasarily. Your assuming he was able to put thoughts into words and execute them with that fluidity. Perhaps that was the word in his vocabulary that he felt described the situation as he remembered it. Perhaps he felt it described his moms frantic behavior that morning, not in a way that was malicious but rather what he understood the definition of psycho to be.

It does show a level if apathy toward the severity of the situation for sure, but I don't think he was actually calling his mother insane or making fun of her.

 

[ThinkHard]

"That's so gay" didn't become a catch-phrase until much later in the 2000's. My sons were in middle school so that would have been 2005 or later.

Oh no, you are mistaken, that was a phrase when I was in middle school, which would have been in the mid 90's, by later 2000's I was in grad school and knew well and good how damaging using that phrase was.....it had been around for a long time at that point!

 

[Heymom]

Oooh good thought!

One thing I keep coming back to are all the cross outs, that just doesn't seem like a Patsy thing, and especially not if she was trying to look like a professional foreign faction.

That part of it makes me think of the way a kid would hand in an assignment, overlooking those details.

The kidnappers were not the foreign faction though. They were a group of individuals that represented the small foreign faction.

The whole premise of this note is beyond absurd, but it's not the work of a 9-year-old.

 

[HarmonyE.]

I think there is a danger of losing the forest for the trees if we focus on parsing out specific phrases or words Burke used then or now. If we step back and look at the things he is now telling us, coupled with his reaction to certain key questions asked by investigators back in the day, a very clear picture emerges.

I've always been reasonably sure Burke did the head strike. There was no intruder and he was the only person both John and Patsy would have covered for. Now I'm completely sure he hit her in the head and reasonably sure he did the garroting and postmortem jabbing with his train track piece after he killed her. Where Patsy and John come in exactly, I don't know but this is now the interesting part of the debate for me. I believe very strongly that Patsy is the only person who could have written the note and John knew what happened before the 911 call was made, but everything else remains a mystery right now.