Was Burke Involved # 5

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What a frightening experience to be shocked by a fence while in an irrigation ditch. Thank you for sharing your experience. I don't think BR suffered any bodily damage from the shock. It is a part of what happened at the White's Christmas party prior to his sister's death.

Even if people have been recently selling sick dogs, what does that have to do with the Bichon's sold in Boulder in 1996?

Actually the stories are recent, but pet stores trying to sell off sick animals isn't. Patsy got the dog and she later discovered it was sick. The pet store may or may not have been aware of the animal's sickness.

There is no other explanation for the dog living with the neighbors other than BR could not be trusted around JonBenet's dog. Although, I am open to other reasonable ideas and suggestions.

John didn't like or want the dog and neither did Patsy. It was a promise made to a little girl. The family was travelling a lot. That means either the dog goes to a kennel or to a friend. The elderly couple across the street looked after the dog and became attached to it. Have you never had friends who didn't want to keep the pet they had? Oddly enough, my family acquired 2 dogs and 2 cats from similar circumstances. Come to think of it, I guess my mother had soft side and didn't want the see the pets go to the pound.

We will probably never know much about BRs childhood behavior since the Rs requested that their friends not speak to the media even though they went on national television with their version of events. Nor are we privy to what BRs teacher told the GJ regarding his behavior. IMHO, the prosecutor called his teacher as a GJ witness due to what she had to reveal and it was not good news. JB was said to have become clingy to her mother. I think it is possible that JB was scared of her brother and was seeking protection.

I'm well aware of the articles describing Burke's outbursts in school. Again, none of this happens in a vacuum. You can't have Burke go through what he experienced without being scarred. Yes, the Ramsey's friends where 'ordered' not to speak to the media. How do you put a gag order on a classroom? The teachers may not speak, but you could never expect the students to stay quiet.

BR dreamed of a job with a large corporation after graduating from Purdue in 2010. His top three choices were [from his Twitter account]:

So because Burke didn't achieve his dream job means what? I've been around tech all my life and the one thing I can say is that the jobs aren't stable. Experience is king as long as you were lucky enough to choose a technology (or programming language) that the industry didn't discard for the next latest and greatest thing.

BR did not become employed by any of those aforementioned companies. Instead, he moved back to Atlanta and worked for an IT business in a cubicle setting. There was an article about this job and his picture in the company newsletter; however, I'm unable to locate it now since the current links want to discuss the Dr Phil Show he appeared on recently. He also held a job spinning records as a DJ. He joined some skateboard group and was part of an online blog that I can no longer find the link for either.

I wasn't aware of his employment history. I've worked in a cube farm and I have friends who did the same. Some are now working from home. None of that is unusual. DJ and a skateboarding groups are not antisocial.

Therefore, BR was working with others as an adult, even though he was separated from them by partitions, during most of the working day. Why couldn't he stay with the company and build his own career? Did he pester his co-workers? Did they tease him? I do not know the answer.

Why couldn't he stay with the company and build his career? You really haven't been around the technology industry much. Staying with a company and building a career means you get promoted to senior programmer, senior analyst or senior DBA. Climbing that ladder takes maybe 4 or 5 years if you have your masters. If you want to go further you have to get your MBA and move into mid level or upper management. It's normal these days to move from one shop to the next.

I don't have any problem with BDI. He may well have committed the murder, but so could Patsy or John. I just don't find some of the things you listed to be too mysterious.

You're theory had made me think and I appreciate it. It's an interesting theory.
 
Completely agree, Boldbear. Certain things get blown out of proportion way too often when it comes to BR. There's nothing strange about a Computer Tech working from home -- why in the world wouldn't you? They make fantastic money ranging from 75,000 to 90,000 and they get to work remotely; i.e. avoid an office/cube. A childhood friend of mine is a computer tech who works remotely -- he moved to Florida and his office is a beach. All his work is done from a laptop. No annoying co-workers or bosses; almost zero stress other than deadlines of course. Who wouldn't want that?
 
Please understand that I continue in an attempt to reconcile the death of JonBenet with BDI. For many, many years, I was convinced PDI although I read the theories of BDI along the way. When I viewed the video that was posted, I realized that a child at the tender age of four years old could commit evil offences and not be phased by the harm done.

I spent an entire week in Boulder in 2014 by staying in a cabin at the foothills of the FlatIron Mountain in Chautauqua Park. Most nights, were spent reading A Mother Gone Bad by Andrew Hodges because I was still a PDI theorist.

During that week, I drove past every major player's home or office, more than once. I drove to the White's two homes and dined at Pasta Jay's and also located the Episcopal Church where JonBenet's services were held. I studied the former location of Access Graphics on Pearl Street. I drove down the [spooky] alleyway behind the Ramsey's home. That was when I realized that John Fernie, not only was the only one to park in the back, but there is no way he could read the RN from the door he claims to have done so. I feel he arrived earlier than the others, much earlier. That was also when I noted the two bedroom apartments over the garage. The apartments, to my knowledge, were never mentioned in any literature or files on the murder. All of this was done in an effort to seek understanding.

After mentioning the discounted beaver fur, I realized, well, BR was shocked by a wire meant to keep beavers away. This could explain the presence of the beaver fur at the CS. Patsy's sweater shed fibers. BR could have had her fibers on his hands when the garotte was constructed. I have no doubts that BR could have made it. There was wires twisted into knots found in the damp cellar with JonBenet. I have no doubt that BR found his hidden knife used for a favorite hobby of whittling.

Joining a blog of skateboard enthusiasts is similar to what we do here at WS. It is as if we are attending a masquerade. I do not personally know you nor do you know me. I do not consider this social activity but perhaps I am wrong. I've never had dinner with another WS member, nor taken a vacation with any members but I did send gifts to a member's handicapped child one year at Christmas.

I also have a long-time dear friend who works remotely in IT but she put in enough years with Coca Cola to retire before seeking a remote position. It certainly offers one flexibility in scheduling activities and travel plans. In no way, do I begrudge Burke for his choice of employment. He is young, lives alone and works alone. That is unusual and not the norm. It's antisocial behavior for someone his age. That is only my opinion. As mentioned, I continue to seek understanding in the death of JonBenet and most likely always will.

 
The entire Ramsey defense hinges on a compressed timeline of events. They want everyone tucked in and asleep by 10:30pm. The pineapple threw a spanner in the works, indicating that JonBenet was not carried up to bed asleep upon returning from the Whites' house. The fact that the Ramseys don't account for the pineapple in their version of events means that they were likely unaware JonBenet had eaten pineapple that night. While this does add some fuel to the BDI theory, its larger importance is that it discredits the timeline given to us by the Ramseys.

Exactly. JR said JB was asleep. SS said "They were all happy and excited." That shows me JB was awake. The fact that it's so important to JR that JB be asleep and carried up to bed to fit their timeline tells me there was a coverup.
 
I agree that Burke could have fashioned the garotte. I have a little trouble with anything after that. I can't make the connection of: "Our son just brutally strangled our daughter to death. We could lose him. Let's cover it up." Burke went over to his friend's homes to play and the neighbors and their children don't have any stories about how Burke kind-of frightened them. He liked to build forts. He liked to play basketball. He played video games and built models. Jonbenet was described as a bit of a tomboy. And a 9 year old boy wouldn't allow his 6 year old sister to enter his room--that's kind-of normal.

I don't have a problem that Burke found his pocket knife. Linda put it out of reach, but a 9 year old boy? It was his property and she was the cleaning lady and didn't have any real authority over Jonbenet and Burke. Discipline came from...Patsy? Not likely. You think that Linda would have approached John with the whittling problem. John's first question would have probably been, "You're Linda. Who are you?"

Out of curiosity, you mentioned that there were a couple of apartments over the garage. What garage? If they were there in the Ramsey home, then they had to be added after the Ramseys moved out.

The timeline with John Fernie bothers me too. They described having the RN on the floor back by the study door. The first officer arrives and they explain to him about the kidnapping. They pick up the note and put it back onto the spiral staircase. Some time before they picked the note off of the floor and put it on the spiral staircase, John Fernie was supposed to arrive at the door and see some of the words on the note before he walks around the house to the front door. It would have taken him less than 20 seconds to reach the front door, but John and Patsy had plenty of time to convince the police officer there was a problem. They never mentioned that they were interrupted by Fernie. That doesn't work at all.
 
After mentioning the discounted beaver fur, I realized, well, BR was shocked by a wire meant to keep beavers away.

Yes but don't paintbrushes have beaver fur sometimes as well?

Very interesting post and thanks for sharing!
 
I agree that Burke could have fashioned the garotte. I have a little trouble with anything after that. I can't make the connection of: "Our son just brutally strangled our daughter to death. We could lose him. Let's cover it up." Burke went over to his friend's homes to play and the neighbors and their children don't have any stories about how Burke kind-of frightened them. He liked to build forts. He liked to play basketball. He played video games and built models. Jonbenet was described as a bit of a tomboy. And a 9 year old boy wouldn't allow his 6 year old sister to enter his room--that's kind-of normal.

I don't have a problem that Burke found his pocket knife. Linda put it out of reach, but a 9 year old boy? It was his property and she was the cleaning lady and didn't have any real authority over Jonbenet and Burke. Discipline came from...Patsy? Not likely. You think that Linda would have approached John with the whittling problem. John's first question would have probably been, "You're Linda. Who are you?"

Out of curiosity, you mentioned that there were a couple of apartments over the garage. What garage? If they were there in the Ramsey home, then they had to be added after the Ramseys moved out.

The timeline with John Fernie bothers me too. They described having the RN on the floor back by the study door. The first officer arrives and they explain to him about the kidnapping. They pick up the note and put it back onto the spiral staircase. Some time before they picked the note off of the floor and put it on the spiral staircase, John Fernie was supposed to arrive at the door and see some of the words on the note before he walks around the house to the front door. It would have taken him less than 20 seconds to reach the front door, but John and Patsy had plenty of time to convince the police officer there was a problem. They never mentioned that they were interrupted by Fernie. That doesn't work at all.

"Our son just brutally strangled our daughter to death. We could lose him. Let's cover it up."

What cover-up? I don't think Patsy knew her daughter was missing until she awoke. I believe she awoke earlier than she stated.

Discipline came from...Patsy? Not likely. You think that Linda would have approached John with the whittling problem. John's first question would have probably been, "You're Linda. Who are you?"

Patsy was informed where the knife was stowed by their housekeeper. Discipline, of more correctly, the lack of discipline, with regards to handling the children, was a major problem as it created dysfunction within the household. Patsy was messy and untidy. I can only imagine the awful odor of body excrement and urine permeating the second floor. John worked all day only to arrive home often to a messy home and quite possibly without dinner prepared. John was tidy, as one typically is when they are trained in the military to neatly fold socks and other clothing items and store them in an orderly manner.

Out of curiosity, you mentioned that there were a couple of apartments over the garage. What garage? If they were there in the Ramsey home, then they had to be added after the Ramseys moved out.

The Ramsey's parked their vehicles in an enclosed garage that is accessed via the alleyway. From the garage, they entered the interior via a door that opened into the mud room near John's study. I recall the garage as being stuffed with boxes and other clutter yet I vaguely recall a mention of the apartments above it. acandyrose may have some data regarding the apartments over the garage. Astonishingly, acandyrose gave FW copies of everything that she had gathered, some of which is no longer available to us and, perhaps, some never was on her site.

JonBenet's side of the home is very dark on the ground level. Of course, the area may be darker than it was when the Rs occupied it. I've seen pictures of the interior of that side door. Patsy had a large wreath hanging on the exterior of that door. I stand by my opinion that JF could not be able to read the RN from that position. Did Patsy inform him during her phone call that there was a RN?

John Fernie was supposed to arrive at the door and see some of the words on the note before he walks around the house to the front door. It would have taken him less than 20 seconds to reach the front door, but John and Patsy had plenty of time to convince the police officer there was a problem. They never mentioned that they were interrupted by Fernie.

I have found the Ramseys not to be forthcoming with honesty. If JF saw Police arrive in a patrol car, JF could have easily slipped out either the side doors before the Officer was allowed entry, possibly using the butler's door. Wasn't it found ajar? He could have walked back to his car without anyone in authority knowing. Waited a moment, then, walked around to the front door. I've read his brief sworn testimony. His words are terse and without elaboration. It was obvious he did not wish to be under subpoena. I am convinced of his early arrival but do not expect others to follow suit. It is simply worth noting the strong possibility.

Alex Hunter refused to issue a subpoena for the Ramsey's phone records. We will never know who was called or when, other than the 911 call.
 
Again, it's not "unusual" for a young person to work remotely, particularly someone involved in the tech industry. There is absolutely nothing unusual about that, particularly in this current day in age. In addition, simply because he's a bachelor doesn't make him "abnormal" or completely devoid of friends/romantic relationships in his life.

I really can't fathom how a nine year old would know that particular device (whatever you want to call it) and/or how to properly use that device to strangle someone, let alone properly construct one. That's the one thing I notice here: some people have no problem thinking a nine year old is capable of this, and I've never seen a valid reason why someone can believe this. "Because he was a scout" doesn't suffice for me. They teach knots -- okay -- but they don't teach you different choking devices and how a garrotte functions. It would have been harder for a nine year old to use this device to strangle as opposed to the easier method of simply wrapping the cord around both his hands and foregoing the paintbrush all together.
 
What cover-up? I don't think Patsy knew her daughter was missing until she awoke. I believe she awoke earlier than she stated.

Snipped to address this particular point -- I'm confused by your question: if you are assuming BR committed the crime, are you implying that you don't believe the parents were involved in covering for BR at all? Are you saying BR wrote the ransom note, and not the parents? That his parents didn't stage anything?
 
That was also when I noted the two bedroom apartments over the garage. The apartments, to my knowledge, were never mentioned in any literature or files on the murder. All of this was done in an effort to seek understanding.

Snipped to address the garage.....I'm confused. The garage was attached to the house; it wasn't separate. Above the garage area, were JBR's and MR's bedrooms (and also two adjoining bathrooms per bedroom). There were no "bedroom apartments" at the time of the murder; they were simply, bedrooms. So I guess my question is: when did you visit the home (year)? And are you saying that there were "bedroom apartments" added after the murders occurred?
 
Again, it's not "unusual" for a young person to work remotely, particularly someone involved in the tech industry. There is absolutely nothing unusual about that, particularly in this current day in age. In addition, simply because he's a bachelor doesn't make him "abnormal" or completely devoid of friends/romantic relationships in his life.

I really can't fathom how a nine year old would know that particular device (whatever you want to call it) and/or how to properly use that device to strangle someone, let alone properly construct one. That's the one thing I notice here: some people have no problem thinking a nine year old is capable of this, and I've never seen a valid reason why someone can believe this. "Because he was a scout" doesn't suffice for me. They teach knots -- okay -- but they don't teach you different choking devices and how a garrotte functions. It would have been harder for a nine year old to use this device to strangle as opposed to the easier method of simply wrapping the cord around both his hands and foregoing the paintbrush all together.

i knew what a garrote was because as a kid i was a history buff, the last inca emperor was killed using a garrote but i agree, is an obscure method of killing and torture and way too complex for a child

it is a very personal and cruel method as the killer has to be very close to the victim while strangling them

i always thought she was strangled and the garrote was use for staging purposes
an adult would certainly know how to manufacture one

for me, the garrote says JR


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Except, it's not a garrote in a true sense. It looked like a kid contraption; a boy scout toggle rope slapped together. Even Pugh testified she'd seen the same rope and knotting around a box. There was no such thing as the using the word garrote for what Dr. Meyer described as a "wooden stick" and it is continuing the false narrative.

Besides, the red fibers on the sticky side of the duct tape and the fibers found in the ligature were a match to PR's clothes.

BR had at least two knives. He was known to whittle down sticks of wood and left the shavings everywhere he went. The ligature has a broken, whittled down piece of wood handle. In BR's own testimony during his interview with Det. Schuller in June of 1998, he says one of the reasons he likes knives is because it helps him "tie better knots."

[FONT=&quot]SCHULER: [/FONT]You have two knives?

[FONT=&quot]BURKE: I have one that says my name on it – it has Switzerland on it.

[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]SCHULER: Uh-huh.

[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]BURKE: [/FONT]That one has a big knife, small knife, saw, corkscrew, screwdriver, flat head screwdriver, toothpick and tweezers. And I think that’s it. And then I have another one that has a saw, scissors, it’s got this little hook thing that you tie knots better with. Um, I said saw? A cork opener.
 
From the above link:

[FONT=&quot]SCHULER: [/FONT]Oh, okay. So somebody must have given you that one, for a special occasion?

[FONT=&quot]BURKE: [/FONT]My mom.

[FONT=&quot]DEMUTH: [/FONT]You did ever see [Burke] whittle?

[FONT=&quot]PATSY: No, No, I didn’t.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]DEMUTH: Is there any reason why Burke would have a knife like this.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]PATSY: [/FONT]No. Huh-uh.

Yup, coverup.
 
Nice red herring. It's not about being broken off at both ends. that's clear as day. It's about being well.... whittled.

You'd have to be blind as a bat to not see it as being whittled down.

If you cannot see that as whittled well, that's your prerogative. I say it's whittled.

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Again, it's not "unusual" for a young person to work remotely, particularly someone involved in the tech industry. There is absolutely nothing unusual about that, particularly in this current day in age. In addition, simply because he's a bachelor doesn't make him "abnormal" or completely devoid of friends/romantic relationships in his life.

I really can't fathom how a nine year old would know that particular device (whatever you want to call it) and/or how to properly use that device to strangle someone, let alone properly construct one. That's the one thing I notice here: some people have no problem thinking a nine year old is capable of this, and I've never seen a valid reason why someone can believe this. "Because he was a scout" doesn't suffice for me. They teach knots -- okay -- but they don't teach you different choking devices and how a garrotte functions. It would have been harder for a nine year old to use this device to strangle as opposed to the easier method of simply wrapping the cord around both his hands and foregoing the paintbrush all together.

One of the issues I have with the garrote is the slip knot near the neck. It's prone to locking into place so it can't be controlled. This isn't what Smit claimed it was--a device designed for control by a bondage master. No. This was armature. This wasn't something someone learned how to make. It it was, it would have had a better design. I only see it being fashioned in a moment of panic.
 
Nice red herring. It's not about being broken off at both ends. that's clear as day. It's about being well.... whittled.

You'd have to be blind as a bat to not see it as being whittled down.

If you cannot see that as whittled well, that's your prerogative. I say it's whittled.

attachment.php

I'm not trying to be obstinate, but if this paint brush was whittled maybe it was whittled down by the break close to the brush. I was 9 and I whittled too. That was a scouts thing and it was for a soap box derby (not sure if that's the right term). These were from small blocks of wood that had a rough machine cut but then needed to be whittled into whatever car shape you wanted.

Whittling for a 9 year old boy does not create smooth, machined edges. When you whittled it into its basic shape, it had rough edges. The next step was to use rough and then a finer and finer sandpaper to create a smooth look. Whittling leaves bumpy edges that need to be sanded.

What I see when I look at the paintbrush is a brush that was either rough and unvarnished wood or a varnished (or painted) brush that was exposed to something like paint thinner or MEK (methyl ethyl ketone) to remove the finish. Patsy was working with oils.

The metal part near the bristles might have paint or corrosion. (Corrosion if paint thinner or other solvents stripped the protective surface off of the metal).

The part with the brushes near the break appears to have been crushed or I'll accept whittled.

I do not, however, see from this photo if you can tell with 100% certainty that it was whittled. This is something that can easily be determined by the investigators. It is not, however, something that is clear from a photo. It may have been whittled or those markings could have come from it being broken.

I really wish this stuff was black and white. It just isn't.
 
What cover-up? I don't think Patsy knew her daughter was missing until she awoke. I believe she awoke earlier than she stated.

Okay. BDI

Patsy was informed where the knife was stowed by their housekeeper. Discipline, of more correctly, the lack of discipline, with regards to handling the children, was a major problem as it created dysfunction within the household. Patsy was messy and untidy. I can only imagine the awful odor of body excrement and urine permeating the second floor. John worked all day only to arrive home often to a messy home and quite possibly without dinner prepared. John was tidy, as one typically is when they are trained in the military to neatly fold socks and other clothing items and store them in an orderly manner.

Yeah, the knife is to give weight to the BDI theory. I got it.

The Ramsey's parked their vehicles in an enclosed garage that is accessed via the alleyway. From the garage, they entered the interior via a door that opened into the mud room near John's study. I recall the garage as being stuffed with boxes and other clutter yet I vaguely recall a mention of the apartments above it. acandyrose may have some data regarding the apartments over the garage. Astonishingly, acandyrose gave FW copies of everything that she had gathered, some of which is no longer available to us and, perhaps, some never was on her site.

Those were bedrooms over the garage. JB's bedroom and the guest bedroom. Above that was John and Patsy bathrooms, John's study and Patsy's dressing room. There were no apartments.

JonBenet's side of the home is very dark on the ground level. Of course, the area may be darker than it was when the Rs occupied it. I've seen pictures of the interior of that side door. Patsy had a large wreath hanging on the exterior of that door. I stand by my opinion that JF could not be able to read the RN from that position. Did Patsy inform him during her phone call that there was a RN?

Funny that we're in agreement that the story is fishy. I get it. You put JF at the scene before the officer arrived. Okay.

I have found the Ramseys not to be forthcoming with honesty. If JF saw Police arrive in a patrol car, JF could have easily slipped out either the side doors before the Officer was allowed entry, possibly using the butler's door. Wasn't it found ajar? He could have walked back to his car without anyone in authority knowing. Waited a moment, then, walked around to the front door. I've read his brief sworn testimony. His words are terse and without elaboration. It was obvious he did not wish to be under subpoena. I am convinced of his early arrival but do not expect others to follow suit. It is simply worth noting the strong possibility.

I don't trust anything the Ramseys said. Burke was up. They awoke him and asked him if he knew what happened. Or depending on your theory, one of the parents awoke him and talked with him. Okay. I don't put a lot of faith in the Butler's pantry door being opened by whoever. It could have been opened by the police during a search.

Alex Hunter refused to issue a subpoena for the Ramsey's phone records. We will never know who was called or when, other than the 911 call.

The politics around this case is really interesting. Steve Thomas book was great. SD was great at explaining the politics and Kolar's book also went into a lot of that. I also reference PMPT all the time and some of it was there too.

I've been studying Patsy cancer scare for the last week. I wish I wouldn't get so laser focused on these things sometimes. I know that house like the back of my hand. I could walk through it blindfolded. I've been avoiding the politics and just been focusing on what lead up to that day and what happened.
 
I'm not trying to be obstinate, but if this paint brush was whittled maybe it was whittled down by the break close to the brush. I was 9 and I whittled too. That was a scouts thing and it was for a soap box derby (not sure if that's the right term). These were from small blocks of wood that had a rough machine cut but then needed to be whittled into whatever car shape you wanted.

Whittling for a 9 year old boy does not create smooth, machined edges. When you whittled it into its basic shape, it had rough edges. The next step was to use rough and then a finer and finer sandpaper to create a smooth look. Whittling leaves bumpy edges that need to be sanded.

What I see when I look at the paintbrush is a brush that was either rough and unvarnished wood or a varnished (or painted) brush that was exposed to something like paint thinner or MEK (methyl ethyl ketone) to remove the finish. Patsy was working with oils.

The metal part near the bristles might have paint or corrosion. (Corrosion if paint thinner or other solvents stripped the protective surface off of the metal).

The part with the brushes near the break appears to have been crushed or I'll accept whittled.

I do not, however, see from this photo if you can tell with 100% certainty that it was whittled. This is something that can easily be determined by the investigators. It is not, however, something that is clear from a photo. It may have been whittled or those markings could have come from it being broken.

I really wish this stuff was black and white. It just isn't.

I have five brothers who were all scouts so I recognized it as being whittled on the surface from the knife marks and the flakes. Why a paintbrush? Who knows. Pugh said BR whittled anything.

Here's another rabbit hole to go down into!

BR and whittling
 
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