Was Burke involved?

[SapphireSteel]

ITA. It's one thing to suggest that a scrawny 9-yr-old got angry with his sister and bashed her in the head and his controlling mother covered it up is a believable scenario. It is impossible for me to make a giant leap to a conclusion a 9-year-old was also sexually molesting his sister on an ongoing basis. There is absolutely nothing to support such a wild accusation.

:goodpost:

BDI is possible, but so unlikely it can be ruled out with the application of some common sense.

First of all, BDI presupposes that B and JB stayed awake and ready to party after an enirmous day full of excitement. B, maybe, but JB would probably be sleeping like the baby she was.

So, next step in BDI is that he molested her in bed...then what?

How did he half kill her silently in the bed?

Did he strangle her (not an easy feat for a large man let alone a scrawny child.

So she's half dead in her room - what then?

He calls his parents who IMMEDIATELY KNOW something that even a court would struggle with, that a 9 year old killed his sister.

This would be the LAST thing I would think of.

So, finding one child injured and the other saying "i didnt mean it" caused P or R to carry JB down to the basement (still alive), to tie her up, molest her with a paintbrush, then hit her so hard on the head her skull split in two.

So where was Burke?

Placed in his room and told not to come out, or holding the torch so his parent could see to assault JB with a paintbrush?

Common sense says he would have been shut in his room and instructed not to come out or say a word.

So why did he?

Lastly if B was raping his sister, WHO sexualised him????? That would be a massive indicator to any expert, that he'd be a victim himself.

Lastly, any parent who would stage and murder instead of calling 911 is clearly deranged. Hiw likely is it that all three members of that family all share an identical psychopathy, which caused them to treat their dying daughter like a wounded deer instead of their much loved baby?

Interfering with a corpse is illegal, murdering a suffering child is also illegal. As far as i know neither parent had murdered before so it wasnt just a regular thing to do to solve a problem.

Patsy sitting on her butt and calmly writing the note tends to indicate a massive detachment to me.

[modsnip]

 

[Frigga]

There was no small foreign faction... no kidnapping for ransom... there was no intruder. The Grand jury heard and saw the evidence and that is the conclusion they came to, I agree with the Grand jury who saw the evidence, the ones that heard Burke Ramsey's testimony. The ones who knew Burke Ramsey could never be charged. The ones who knew however that his parents could- for covering it up. I stand behind the Grand Jury. If Alex Hunter had I don't believe we would ever be here, having these discussions today. I hope Burke Ramsey got help.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Someone was chronically molesting her. Why not Burke? You prove it!

Just curious, what does the description "scrawny" have to do with anything?

Scrawny people don't get angry... or scrawny people don't have the strength to bash someone?

Whoever moved, staged and strangled JB had considerable upper body strength.

A five year old being strangled will kick and struggle. Even an angry toddler can be too much for some mothers to subdue let alone a healthy 5 year old.

Burke was simply not physically capable of moving or throttling JB.

 

[bettybaby00]

If I was the innocent sibling of a murdered baby sister, who was in the home the night she was murdered- in fact asleep in the closest room to her and was asked by detectives years later to come in and answer some questions- I would be there, after all, I have nothing to hide. I would want the perp to know I was going to be there, and I would want to do all I could to help facilitate the finding and apprehension of said perp. Even if I thought I had nothing to add or help- I would hope and I would try- for my baby sister. What if?

What if indeed...why would he care now? The Rs have successfully hid, misled, lied and failed to cooperate ever since JRB drew her last breath.

 

[Frigga]

Sapphiresteel, you have a right to your opinion.

I disagree with the last line.

I also agree with you that "Even an angry toddler can be too much for some mothers to subdue let alone a healthy 5 year old."... keeping in mind that most mothers never resort to deadly force.

 

[SapphireSteel]

What if indeed...why would he care now? The Rs have successfully hid, misled, lied and failed to cooperate ever since JRB drew her last breath.

You forget that Burke loves his parents and is quite possibly still protecting them.

I know from my own experience that the memory is a tricky thing. you can literally "block" unpleasant memories entirely.

The only way I know my mother beat me right up to teenage years is because the neighbours told me. i cant remember a thing.

 

[Mama2JML]

why? it won't be on the "approved" list of sources (because that list is so short it's nearly nonexistent)

I listed the only source of which I am aware. (TY, otg.); a tabloid 'report' per an anonymous source. If any other source exists, please cite it.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Sapphiresteel, you have a right to your opinion.

I disagree with the last line.

I also agree with you that "Even an angry toddler can be too much for some mothers to subdue let alone a healthy 5 year old."... keeping in mind that most mothers never resort to deadly force.

Gee thanks for giving me permission to have an opinion!

You're allowed one too.

 

[Frigga]

I'm sorry for what you endured as a child, sapphire, although repressed in my experience it also never leaves you. You managed to rise above it and for that I am happy!

 

[Mama2JML]

BDI is possible, but so unlikely it can be ruled out with the application of some common sense.

First of all, BDI presupposes that B and JB stayed awake and ready to party after an enirmous day full of excitement. B, maybe, but JB would probably be sleeping like the baby she was.

So, next step in BDI is that he molested her in bed...then what?

How did he half kill her silently in the bed?

Did he strangle her (not an easy feat for a large man let alone a scrawny child.

So she's half dead in her room - what then?

He calls his parents who IMMEDIATELY KNOW something that even a court would struggle with, that a 9 year old killed his sister.

This would be the LAST thing I would think of.

So, finding one child injured and the other saying "i didnt mean it" caused P or R to carry JB down to the basement (still alive), to tie her up, molest her with a paintbrush, then hit her so hard on the head her skull split in two.

So where was Burke?

Placed in his room and told not to come out, or holding the torch so his parent could see to assault JB with a paintbrush?

Common sense says he would have been shut in his room and instructed not to come out or say a word.

So why did he?

Lastly if B was raping his sister, WHO sexualised him????? That would be a massive indicator to any expert, that he'd be a victim himself.

Lastly, any parent who would stage and murder instead of calling 911 is clearly deranged. Hiw likely is it that all three members of that family all share an identical psychopathy, which caused them to treat their dying daughter like a wounded deer instead of their much loved baby?

Interfering with a corpse is illegal, murdering a suffering child is also illegal. As far as i know neither parent had murdered before so it wasnt just a regular thing to do to solve a problem.

Patsy sitting on her butt and calmly writing the note tends to indicate a massive detachment to me.

I love how folks say "KISS" and then go on to dream up the most unlikely scenarios!

KISS states that he who raped, murdered, and he who murdered, also staged.

:goodpost:

 

[MyBelle]

Whoever moved, staged and strangled JB had considerable upper body strength.

A five year old being strangled will kick and struggle. Even an angry toddler can be too much for some mothers to subdue let alone a healthy 5 year old.

Burke was simply not physically capable of moving or throttling JB.

I think the several pathologists who examined the autopsy report totally agree with you. In fact, there are several who believed she was first strangled with the garrote and she put up quite a fight and her killer was engaging in an auto-erotic fantasy. Not the handiwork of a 9-year-old. Her massive skull fracture was inflicted as she was near death but it required some force.

JMO

 

[Linda7NJ]

:goodpost:



BDI is possible, but so unlikely it can be ruled out with the application of some common sense.



First of all, BDI presupposes that B and JB stayed awake and ready to party after an enirmous day full of excitement. B, maybe, but JB would probably be sleeping like the baby she was.



So, next step in BDI is that he molested her in bed...then what?



How did he half kill her silently in the bed?



Did he strangle her (not an easy feat for a large man let alone a scrawny child.



So she's half dead in her room - what then?



He calls his parents who IMMEDIATELY KNOW something that even a court would struggle with, that a 9 year old killed his sister.



This would be the LAST thing I would think of.



So, finding one child injured and the other saying "i didnt mean it" caused P or R to carry JB down to the basement (still alive), to tie her up, molest her with a paintbrush, then hit her so hard on the head her skull split in two.



So where was Burke?



Placed in his room and told not to come out, or holding the torch so his parent could see to assault JB with a paintbrush?



Common sense says he would have been shut in his room and instructed not to come out or say a word.



So why did he?



Lastly if B was raping his sister, WHO sexualised him????? That would be a massive indicator to any expert, that he'd be a victim himself.



Lastly, any parent who would stage and murder instead of calling 911 is clearly deranged. Hiw likely is it that all three members of that family all share an identical psychopathy, which caused them to treat their dying daughter like a wounded deer instead of their much loved baby?



Interfering with a corpse is illegal, murdering a suffering child is also illegal. As far as i know neither parent had murdered before so it wasnt just a regular thing to do to solve a problem.



Patsy sitting on her butt and calmly writing the note tends to indicate a massive detachment to me.



I love how folks say "KISS" and then go on to dream up the most unlikely scenarios!



KISS states that he who raped, murdered, and he who murdered, also staged.

It's a falsity that only victims become perps. Children that were NEVER molested are known to have perpetrated on other children.

I've linked it here before but IMO the very best studies of the subject have done done on polygraphed sex offenders, yes...even polygraphed juvenile sex offenders are part of the research.

IMO Patsy is a narcissist she viewed her children as only an extension of herself, void of their own wants, needs or opinions.

IMO sure was lured or forced to the basement by Burke with the knife as he described the perp doing.

In my version of this theory anyway.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Linda7NJ]

I listed the only source of which I am aware. (TY, otg.); a tabloid 'report' per an anonymous source. If any other source exists, please cite it.

Search feature on this site should bring it up. It's been discussed and linked previously.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[bettybaby00]

You forget that Burke loves his parents and is quite possibly still protecting them.

I know from my own experience that the memory is a tricky thing. you can literally "block" unpleasant memories entirely.

The only way I know my mother beat me right up to teenage years is because the neighbours told me. i cant remember a thing.

Sorry for your horrible experiences.

 

[Mama2JML]

Search feature on this site should bring it up. It's been discussed and linked previously.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It has been mentioned often in support of BDI theories ('discussed' not so much), but my many searches have not resulted in a source. ...other than, as I have previously stated, the tabloid 'report' per an anonymous source.

ETA, the tabloid 'source':
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Intruder theories only - RDI theories not allowed! *READ FIRST POST* #2

 

[questfortrue]

I believe Burke was responsible for the actions that caused JonBenet’s death. There. I’ve said it. For years it was hard to say without most other posters jumping down my throat for even writing the suggestion, or so much as making an implication of such. But since Kolar's book, a lot of the gaps in the public's perception have been filled in, and the subject can at least be openly discussed -- for the most part.

Still, I usually try to avoid saying it unless it’s brought up by someone else who asks a question that makes me feel compelled to answer. I do try to dance around it by referring to the person who tied the ligature, sexually assaulted her, or struck the head blow by saying “he/she”, or “the assailant”, or some other such generic term referring to the person when talking about the evidence because no one here can be certain about it (as I am not either). And I would much rather discuss the evidence and let readers and posters decide for themselves who they think it implicates.

But I have to say that no one here keeps the BDI theory alive more than those who try to dispute it. Whenever the discussion gets “hot” about this subject (as it did recently), I get messages or emails from members here who either don’t post much, or who in some cases have never posted, saying they agree, or that they have just realized it may be true because of what was said by me or others who joined in on the discussion. So I realize that when we discuss this with someone who tries to dispute the possibility, it most likely won’t change that person’s mind -- but it will lead others to realize that this might be the reason JonBenet needlessly died. Regardless of who physically did the actions that caused her death that night, (as I’ve said before) I still think the ultimate responsibility for the circumstances that caused it to happen lies at the feet of both John and Patsy Ramsey. But that too is just my humble opinion. I wish I was wrong, but I don’t think I am about that.

So I say, here and now, thank you to those who like to try and dispel BDI theories, because you are helping to convince others of just the opposite of what you think. If enough of the public realizes the possible involvement of this person (who was a mere child himself at the time, and not legally or morally responsible for his actions), more pressure may come for him to answer questions from the investigators who would like to clear up this blemish on the reputation of their community. Maybe because of our discussions someone who works with him will read something one day and say to him while standing at the company coffee pot, “You know, there are a lot of people who think you were involved with your sister’s death.” Maybe someone will say something to John one day that makes him feel compelled to say something more than that it’s all “just more drama.” And if one of them does come forward to actually speak with investigators (although not likely), perhaps those who have carried the torch of “justice” for JonBenet for so long will get some real answers -- even (and especially) if the answers point to someone else.

Thanks again for all the help,

(otg)

Kolar appears to be an honorable, intelligent, and courageous man. And I believe you’ve gone one better on the continuum of “courageous” putting your theory of BDI out there. Further, I pray you are correct that somehow someday someone may speak more about what they know. ST said that he hoped a chance arrow would hit a target. Quoting Cohen, it’s been my hope a crack in the iron-clad defense would allow “light” to illuminate more in this case. You’ve basically said, wait a minute, look here. Yours is a theory which answers much, and I’m personally glad you said it the way you did. Bravo.

Recently listened to the December podcast of Kolar on “Generation Why” and thought that this quote from the host was interesting and pertinent: “Anyone who is still intrigued by this case, there are still clues out there. So I don’t think people should mark this one off as 'secretly solved' or that it 'will never be solved'; I think there is still a lot of intriguing evidence out there.
Kolar: “ I agree.”

 

[bettybaby00]

Posting comment you replied to...

Originally Posted by SapphireSteel
Whoever moved, staged and strangled JB had considerable upper body strength.

A five year old being strangled will kick and struggle. Even an angry toddler can be too much for some mothers to subdue let alone a healthy 5 year old.

Burke was simply not physically capable of moving or throttling JB.

I think the several pathologists who examined the autopsy report totally agree with you. In fact, there are several who believed she was first strangled with the garrote and she put up quite a fight and her killer was engaging in an auto-erotic fantasy. Not the handiwork of a 9-year-old. Her massive skull fracture was inflicted as she was near death but it required some force.

JMO

BBM

where was that ever documented?

Over the last couple of days there have been numerous stats posted re: juvenile offenders, and what they're capable of, including sexual molestation & /or rape, as well as murder. Quite a few of those stats highlighted these types of crimes in the under 10 set.

Whether or not burke committed this crime or whether he was capable of perpetrating this type of crime are 2 different arguments, and shouldn't be combined.

And sorry the "he's so frail," defense is pretty weak. In none of the stats cited was it a prerequisite that a juvenile be some oversized, strapping youth.

 

[questfortrue]

One thing I have come to understand in my almost 49 years on this planet is that human beings are capable of anything.

Under the right circumstances they are capable of noble feats of strength, bravery and selflessness. Think of all those people who lose their own lives trying to save the life of a stranger... a complete and utter stranger. Someone who has lifted a thousand pound car off of a loved one or stranger. People who have put themselves in the line of fire to save someone they may not know. The best of the best as far as us humans go, in my humble opinion.

But there are people who under the wrong circumstances are capable of the most vile, disgusting, heinous things. People who everyone who knows them, intimately or otherwise, say this person is not capable of what they are being accused of. People who never in their right mind would believe themselves capable of eating the flesh of another human being then find themselves stranded, on a mountaintop, with no other hope of survival but to eat another human being. People who, upon finding a spouse or mate in an intimate act with someone else become full of rage and find themselves in the middle of a murderous rampage. People whose minds snap under military or civilian distress and find themselves doing something previously thought abhorrent.

If it is physically or humanly possible- we are all capable of things we never fathomed we might do under the wrong or right circumstances.

I think this is what happened to the Ramsey's. John and Patsy, at least. I fear Burke may be a sociopath or psychopath. It does happen.

Thankyou, Frigga, for a great post. One of the reasons the TV series “Breaking Bad” was so incredible, imo, is that it presented the many sides of our humanity. I liked Walter White’s desire to protect his family after being diagnosed with cancer; he adored his wife and children. But early on, one could sometimes catch glimpses of something else in him, the dark edges which allowed him to make choices that harmed or caused the death of others. No one can diagnose the ‘complexities’ of the human heart. This is a case that certainly proves that.

As far as BR, jury still out. MHO.

 

[RANCH]

It has been mentioned often in support of BDI theories ('discussed' not so much), but my many searches have not resulted in a source. ...other than, as I have previously stated, the tabloid 'report' per an anonymous source.

ETA, the tabloid 'source':
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Intruder theories only - RDI theories not allowed! *READ FIRST POST* #2

I would also like to see another source that supports the tabloid claim. Without one, it's more rumor than fact.

 

[UKGuy]

Thanks. I totally agree. Just because something is a possibility doesn't make it evidence in this case. There is absolutely no evidence Burke sexually abused his little sister. If she was a victim of abuse, her father would be a far likely suspect.

JMO

MyBelle,
You cite no evidence to support your view, you simply assert what you believe as fact.

Whereas in the real world any of the R's might be responsible for JonBenet's molestation.

If you wish to refer to the realm of probability, with respect to, JR abusing his daughter you must publish the relevant data.

Your opinion whilst interesting, is not definitive!

.