Was Burke involved?

[midwest mama]

My current theory is close to this one! I think B had been caught with JB more than once. Also that Patsy would become just as mad at JB for "allowing" this to happen- either by going into B's room or not yelling- and would then angrily scrub her (and possibly molest her out of anger).
John's role in this was that every time Patsy would bring up the situation to him, John would be dismissive of her concerns. From his view, Patsy was overdramatizing everything and "boys will be boys" or "it's just a stage". Perhaps B learned this behavior directly from JR, IDK.

When Patsy caught them this last time, she was enraged. Tired and mad from a long Christmas and trying to pack from the trip, this just sent her over the edge. She screamed at JB and dragged her out of the room. JB started to throw a tantrum. P caused her head injury, then went into hysterics. JR rushes in and they, thinking JB dead, go over all the repercussions if they go with the straight story. JR does the majority of the staging, unstaging and restaging. P writes the ransom note (for the first staging) as he is doing this- maybe after taking some meds? IMO P and JR are arguing/blaming each other as she was writing the note- which would also explain their attitudes towards each other the next day.

Anyways, I think JR was pretty desperate the next day to get both P and B away from LE so I think he was "in charge" of the cover up. I also think a lot of the puzzling things found are part of the staging/unstaging or just things forgotten about (like his robe in the wrong room) Just My Current Theory!

At the point Patsy went hysterical, and JR would have become involved, with as much wealth and obvious political connections the R's had, why would JR, with no reason to have responsibility that night for anything that had happened, not have made whatever calls necessary to bring medical help for the entire family?

If JB had been taken quietly by ambulance, the morning headline would simply have been about her being fatally injured in a household accident. Ramsey could have succeeded in keeping the molestation between the kids under wraps because of the legal ramifications any media would have been under due to the age of the kids.

Bueff could have claimed he had no knowledge of the kids' sexual games, and then sealed the kids' medical records just as he did, Burke would have been in the care of relatives during the next days, (he ended up being sent to Georgia for about 6 months prior to the R's relocating back to Atlanta later on) Patsy would have been under hospitalization and medication throughout the few weeks that followed of the tragedy, and the family would have received empathy from friends, family and nationally till the cows came home.

Instead, JR managed to meet Det. Arndt at the door, quite CORDIALLY, according to Arndt, as the scenario began to unfold. His daughter supposedly kidnapped by a 'foreign faction' being held for ransom, and He was CORDIAL! I can't imagine it.

 

[Mitsana]

Anyways, I think JR was pretty desperate the next day to get both P and B away from LE so I think he was "in charge" of the cover up. I also think a lot of the puzzling things found are part of the staging/unstaging or just things forgotten about (like his robe in the wrong room) Just My Current Theory!

I agree that JR was anxious to get away, but I don't think that means he was in charge of the cover up. He might just be able to adapt quickly when he figures out the truth. I'm leaning towards JR finding the body around 11:00 (3 separate "tells" plus observation of changed demeanor). It's also hard for me to believe that JR would think that ransom note was a great idea.

If PR were horrified by accidentally whacking JBR, she might try to cover it even from JR, esp since there was no great affection between them (LPH). So, after staging, PR might wait until morning, then scream for JR, pretending to find the note. The fuss about JBR missing also wakes BR (who may have only seen JBR whacked and not know the whole story).

JR may immediately realize something is fishy, but PR calls 911 before he can stop her (IIRC, in an interview PR was quick to point out the 911 call was *her* idea, not JR's). I imagine BR in the background asking JR "Did you find [JBR]?" "No." "What *did* you find?" "We're not talking to you."

IMO P and JR are arguing/blaming each other as she was writing the note- which would also explain their attitudes towards each other the next day.

I think PR-solo-initially explains their behavior the next day. If they were in on it together from the start, even with contention, I think they would want to stay together so they would be able to know all the (false) details that their partner might be telling others.

IMO, JR wouldn't really be fooled by the note so wouldn't be surprised when the 10AM deadline passed. Then he might wander off to see if he could find out what had actually happened. In the time he was missing, maybe after finding the body, he cleared out some evidence left by PR (could he stick it in the car?). Maybe he knew about BR's bad habit and checked the body to see/clean up evidence there, possibly wearing work gloves (the four fibers).

At any event, he might well get on board the cover-up when he did find the body even if he hadn't been part of the original staging.

 

[deca]

At the point Patsy went hysterical, and JR would have become involved, with as much wealth and obvious political connections the R's had, why would JR, with no reason to have responsibility that night for anything that had happened, not have made whatever calls necessary to bring medical help for the entire family?

You are right---- I don't think I wrote my previous post that well. Basically I DO think JR had some sort of responsibility that night. I think he knew JB was getting abused, ignored it and continued to let it happen OR he was the abuser (possibly co-abuser).
So he didn't pull strings and try to write this off as an accident when JB was killed. He knew that at some point in the investigation he would have had the finger pointed at him.

Basically I am trying to find a theory that explains what I believe is true/hinky:
1. Neither parent would cover for the other if they were totally innocent.
2. Patsy wrote the note
3. Burke had some knowledge or involvement- hence his sequestering.
4. No fear of FF
5. Trying to get the "heck outta Dodge"
6. Odd behavior by P and J including P getting drugged
7. Bed wetting, fecal smearing, lots of doc visits, prior CPS visit
8. Beuf being called immediately, JR having a private converstation and walk with him.
9. JR looking through the binoculars.
10. Requests for specific items (golf bag) in time of crisis.

Mitsana- I do not think JR or PR was happy with the ransom note. I think they kicked themselves afterward for letting it get out or for not just writing "Have your girl. We want 100,000 or she's dead. No police. We will contact you." I think they were probably in a panic that night and made some mistakes. Luckily for them they had $$ and they made SO MANY mistakes that it created a jumbled mess that no one can figure out.

 

[deca]

This might be good fodder for another thread: I would really be interested in what facts of the case or generally accepted points of the case each of you use to try to base your theories around. Obviously there are so many points in this case that it would be close to impossible, unless you wrote a book, to include them all. I try to narrow it down to a few dozen. etc.
Like:
1. Ransom note written by insider (IMO Patsy)
2. Patsy was still in the same clothes
3. etc.

 

[dodie20]

You are right---- I don't think I wrote my previous post that well. Basically I DO think JR had some sort of responsibility that night. I think he knew JB was getting abused, ignored it and continued to let it happen OR he was the abuser (possibly co-abuser).
So he didn't pull strings and try to write this off as an accident when JB was killed. He knew that at some point in the investigation he would have had the finger pointed at him.

Basically I am trying to find a theory that explains what I believe is true/hinky:
1. Neither parent would cover for the other if they were totally innocent.
2. Patsy wrote the note
3. Burke had some knowledge or involvement- hence his sequestering.
4. No fear of FF
5. Trying to get the "heck outta Dodge"
6. Odd behavior by P and J including P getting drugged
7. Bed wetting, fecal smearing, lots of doc visits, prior CPS visit
8. Beuf being called immediately, JR having a private converstation and walk with him.
9. JR looking through the binoculars.
10. Requests for specific items (golf bag) in time of crisis.

Mitsana- I do not think JR or PR was happy with the ransom note. I think they kicked themselves afterward for letting it get out or for not just writing "Have your girl. We want 100,000 or she's dead. No police. We will contact you." I think they were probably in a panic that night and made some mistakes. Luckily for them they had $$ and they made SO MANY mistakes that it created a jumbled mess that no one can figure out.

about your #1. I agree. I Do think PR might cover for JR, but IMO, that doesn't look to be the case here. IMO, she had something on JR, even if it had nothing to do with the actual murder. In the ransom note, she said, 'speaking to anyone about your situation'...could the molestation have been the 'situation'? This is a weird choice of words for a kidnapping. kidnapping=situation? I don't think so. When I think about it, it makes sense. If PR killed JB, then her back would have been against the wall and she would have used anything she could to protect herself and also bring JR down with her. JR, on the other hand, would be just as desperate to not have his situation made public. What would happen to his image if people found out? or if people thought PR killed his daughter because of the molestation? He would look horrible and in some ways, guiltier than the actual murderer. So, IMO, this may be the basis for their alliance...the 'it's up to you now John!'IMO, PR had something big on JR.

 

[dodie20]

Another thing about this. IF JR was molesting JB, and IF PR had been covering for him, it would make even more sense that he would join forces with his daughter's murderer. PR would have the goods on him and he would know it. (because he'd realize that he hadn't fooled her and she knew all along?) She could explain how he was molesting their daughter, but in an attempt to salvage her family-because she was so sick-she made the awful decision to ' make do', hoping it would stop. Things finally came to a head, and JB, instead of the real monster, suffered the consequences. She could tell how she frantically cleaned JB, (she had a friend to back this up), and took her to the dr in an attempt to keep her from getting sick. Yes, this is just another scenario , but considering that the grand jury voted to indict JR too, I think it might be close.

 

[dodie20]

You are right---- I don't think I wrote my previous post that well. Basically I DO think JR had some sort of responsibility that night. I think he knew JB was getting abused, ignored it and continued to let it happen OR he was the abuser (possibly co-abuser).
So he didn't pull strings and try to write this off as an accident when JB was killed. He knew that at some point in the investigation he would have had the finger pointed at him.

Basically I am trying to find a theory that explains what I believe is true/hinky:
1. Neither parent would cover for the other if they were totally innocent.
2. Patsy wrote the note
3. Burke had some knowledge or involvement- hence his sequestering.
4. No fear of FF
5. Trying to get the "heck outta Dodge"
6. Odd behavior by P and J including P getting drugged
7. Bed wetting, fecal smearing, lots of doc visits, prior CPS visit
8. Beuf being called immediately, JR having a private converstation and walk with him.
9. JR looking through the binoculars.
10. Requests for specific items (golf bag) in time of crisis.

Mitsana- I do not think JR or PR was happy with the ransom note. I think they kicked themselves afterward for letting it get out or for not just writing "Have your girl. We want 100,000 or she's dead. No police. We will contact you." I think they were probably in a panic that night and made some mistakes. Luckily for them they had $$ and they made SO MANY mistakes that it created a jumbled mess that no one can figure out.

I'm having a complete brain freeze here. Can you explain, (without compromising privacy), what you mean by #4? I'm at a loss with what FF means.

 

[wengr]

I'm having a complete brain freeze here. Can you explain, (without compromising privacy), what you mean by #4? I'm at a loss with what FF means.

Most likely foreign faction.

 

[midwestphd]

FF=foreign faction?

 

[deca]

Yes, sorry about that. FF= foreign faction

I was in a hurry :blushing:

 

[Tricia]

In my opinion, at the absolute very least, Burke has the information needed to finally solve this case.

Burke Ramsey needs to do the right thing. He needs to help right his parents wrongs when it comes to accusing innocent people of the crime.

Be a man and do the right thing Burke Ramsey. Please tell the truth.

The truth really does set you free.

 

[Courage100]

Wasn't there a report that showed that in the background of the phone call they could hear Burke's voice? But then afterwards, the parents said that he was sleeping the whole time? I might be mistaken, but I thought I read that somewhere.

 

[dodie20]

This is in regards to what BR might know. I read a print interview awhile back with JR . It was after PR's death, but before he got remarried. Anyway, 1 of the things that I found alarming, was his attitude towards BR. He even went so far as to say that if anything happened to BR, that he wouldn't be able to go on, or some such. I was stunned because, #1, he has other children. What if something happened to one of them? #2, he had already lost 2 children-one who wasn't much more than a baby and was viciously murdered. The tortuous thoughts of her last hours on earth didn't do him in and he managed to keep on truckin', just fine. Also, he had recently lost his devoted wife, but admitted that he didn't think about her much...so what's so different about BR? IMO, BR knows something, JR knows he knows, and this was him pressuring BR to not talk about it. I don't know what it would take to convince BR to do right by his sister, if doing right by her would include ' ruining' his father's life. IMO, somebody should convince him that the only person with the power to ruin JR's life, is JR. There is no forgiveness without repentance, and yes, the truth will set you free. Living under an umbrella of suspicion until the day you die, is no way to live. Image is a shallow allusion, but truth and repentance are real and everlasting.

 

[DeeDee249]

Wasn't there a report that showed that in the background of the phone call they could hear Burke's voice? But then afterwards, the parents said that he was sleeping the whole time? I might be mistaken, but I thought I read that somewhere.

You are correct. Years later the parents admitted that BR actually WAS awake that morning. BR himself admitted he had only pretended to be asleep.

 

[Courage100]

You are correct. Years later the parents admitted that BR actually WAS awake that morning. BR himself admitted he had only pretended to be asleep.

hm, that's odd. Did they say why they changed their story?

 

[dodie20]

hm, that's odd. Did they say why they changed their story?

Actually, it was BR's grand jury testimony that forced JR to change his story. He said that BR admitted that he only pretended to sleep, and this was supposedly the 1st he had heard of it! Coincidentally, it was also BR, who contradicted the R's story of JB being asleep when they got home that night. He said that she was awake and walked into the house.

 

[DeeDee249]

BR also admitted to police that he owned a a pair of Hi-Tec shoes. (the type that made the shoeprint in the mold on the wine cellar floor). His parents denied he had such a pair. Some of BR's friends, also questioned as to whether they knew anyone who owned Hi-Tecs, told police BR owned a pair. Hi-Tec also makes work shoes, and some of the LE in the house that day also wore those shoes. The shoeprint could have been left by anyone who had been in the house that day as well as LE who had been in the wine cellar. One thing about it- it was RECENT. The mold on the floor was a kind of loose, white substance that is common on uncured, unsealed concrete. It is fragile and easily smeared. It would not have survived removing the family's Christmas trees and other decorations that were stored there and taken out to decorate the house. Nor would it have survived anyone moving the paint cans or her body, really. IMO I feel that print was left by LE that day.
BTW, BR's Hi-Tecs "disappeared" and were not able to be tested against the print. (Not that anyone tried to match any LE shoes either),

 

[deca]

So, if there were train tracks in BR's bedroom---

Are there any pictures available of his room? I would like to see if there are other toys in there/ state of cleanliness.

 

[UKGuy]

BR also admitted to police that he owned a a pair of Hi-Tec shoes. (the type that made the shoeprint in the mold on the wine cellar floor). His parents denied he had such a pair. Some of BR's friends, also questioned as to whether they knew anyone who owned Hi-Tecs, told police BR owned a pair. Hi-Tec also makes work shoes, and some of the LE in the house that day also wore those shoes. The shoeprint could have been left by anyone who had been in the house that day as well as LE who had been in the wine cellar. One thing about it- it was RECENT. The mold on the floor was a kind of loose, white substance that is common on uncured, unsealed concrete. It is fragile and easily smeared. It would not have survived removing the family's Christmas trees and other decorations that were stored there and taken out to decorate the house. Nor would it have survived anyone moving the paint cans or her body, really. IMO I feel that print was left by LE that day.
BTW, BR's Hi-Tecs "disappeared" and were not able to be tested against the print. (Not that anyone tried to match any LE shoes either),

DeeDee249,
I wonder, any connection with events of 96/25/? What footwear did BR wear to the Whites?


.

 

[OpenMind4U]

So, if there were train tracks in BR's bedroom---

Are there any pictures available of his room? I would like to see if there are other toys in there/ state of cleanliness.

As an example, here is photo of Burke's bedroom from December 26.
http://www.acandyrose.com/042burkebedroom.jpg

...and here is photo of JonBenet bedroom from the same date.
http://www.acandyrose.com/002jonbenetbed.jpg

...photo of JAR bedroom...
http://www.acandyrose.com/jar-bed.jpg

...JR and PR bedroom
http://www.acandyrose.com/047parentsbedroom.jpg

....and finally, the Train Room in basement...
http://www.acandyrose.com/trainroom-window.jpg

So, which room won the first place for 'state of cleanliness'???:seeya:


jmo