West Memphis 3

[Jeana (DP)]

Jeana, I think Jessie's IQ or lack thereof makes him a better candidate for a coerced confession, but to me, the more telling evidence is that he gets nearly everything wrong. To wit: the victims were NOT sodomized. Testimony to that effect came from an inexperienced investigator who did not understand the effect of death on the sphincter muscle.

(ETA: and he wasn't smart enough to excuse himself. In fact, it was his story that he caught one of the boys and dragged him back to Damian that got Jessie convicted of murder. I'll agree that anyone who doesn't know the law could make that mistake. It doesn't prove he is a moron, but his confession also doesn't prove he is a rocket scientist.)

I don't know Nova. The fact that he would know so many details about things that happened (sure, not all of them), leads me to believe that he was there. I think he may have had MORE of a hand in what happened and that's why his stories seem to change a bit. I think he was trying to keep his hands clean as much as he could, but I think he did way more than he's telling.

 

[tezi]

Jeana, the information about Jessie's polygraph in the book you are reading is wrong. Jessie passed his polygraph! The only question he ever showed deception on was the question about whether or not he ever did drugs. It's all in the book, "Devil's Knot." That book is the bible for this case!

The transcripts for the trial, or at least some of them are available at www.WM3.org

I need to catch up with the posts about this case. I have had the baby since Thursday, and tonight I have a free night. So, I will try to catch up.

 

[Nova]

Well, if he was alone between 6:00 and 6:30, that would give him time to tie them up. If he went home and alerted everyone else in the house that Chris was late and he was going to look for him, that leaves too many variables in the mix. Anyone could come across the boys before he got back to do the deed. Not only that, but how could he be 100% certain that his wife wouldn't call 911 and have a million cops out there searching. I think its highly unlikely that he would have a plan to murder the boys, but call attention to the fact that they were missing.

Jeana, I don't think Byers knew Chris had run off until Byers returned at 6:30. If Byers committed the murders, I believe he improvised when he found the boys. I've never thought this a carefully preplanned crime.

I think these were rage killings. There is no evidence of sexual assault, no evidence of "satanic" ritual and certainly no reason for robbery. (ETA: I should correct this last remark. Obviously, the injuries to Chris' genitals had something to do with sex in the broad sense of the word. I just meant there was no evidence of penetration/rape.)

Based on my admittedly limited knowledge, Byers is the one who seems most likely to have been angry enough to kill somebody. (And, of course, it was his stepson who was the target of the most vicious attacks.)

I don't have Devil's Knot. I'm trying to stay away from anything done simply to bring attention to the defendants' "plight to get out of prison."

I promise you Devil's Knot is no more biased than Death of Innocents. And the former wasn't written "simply to bring attention to the defendants' plight." To date, it is by far the most comprehensive published account of the case. (I'm not saying you have to agree with the author. I'm just saying "DOI" doesn't provide the depth and breadth of info, and IIRC doesn't begin to cover the screw ups and deliberate cover ups by WMLE.)

 

[tezi]

I don't have Devil's Knot. I'm trying to stay away from anything done simply to bring attention to the defendants' "plight to get out of prison."

Jeana, "Devil's Knot" wasn't written to bring attention to the defendants'
"plight to get out of prison." "Devil's Knot" was written by Mara Leveritt who started with the premise that they were guilty. In the book she exposes all the LE corruption that was going on before, during, and after the murders and the trials. She believes, I think that LE corruption was the reason this case wasn't investigated properly, and that Echols and Company do deserve a fair trial. I believe at the very least they do deserve another trial. Another trial that is fair. Not to be railroaded the way they were by some mail-order expert on cults and the occult.

 

[Nova]

I don't know Nova. The fact that he would know so many details about things that happened (sure, not all of them), leads me to believe that he was there. I think he may have had MORE of a hand in what happened and that's why his stories seem to change a bit. I think he was trying to keep his hands clean as much as he could, but I think he did way more than he's telling.

There is nothing in Miskelly's confession--at least nothing accurate--that he wasn't fed by his interrogators or that wasn't "common knowledge" in WM at the time. The police later tried to claim that Jessie gave them info "that could only be known to the perps," but this turned out to be completely untrue. The investigation was plagued by leaks, and small-town gossip had thoroughly covered everything Jessie said, including the FALSE info that the boys were sodomized.

I agree with you that Jessie framed the story in a way that made Damian and Jason more culpable, but we would expect him to do so whether he was telling the truth or merely saying what he thought his captors wanted to hear.

A coerced confession doesn't necessarily mean the speaker merely parrots everything demanded from him. A person may well lie to please his interrogators while trying to minimize his own involvement. That's instinctive, I think, and doesn't require a genius.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Jeana, the information about Jessie's polygraph in the book you are reading is wrong. Jessie passed his polygraph! The only question he ever showed deception on was the question about whether or not he ever did drugs. It's all in the book, "Devil's Knot." That book is the bible for this case!

The transcripts for the trial, or at least some of them are available at www.WM3.org

I need to catch up with the posts about this case. I have had the baby since Thursday, and tonight I have a free night. So, I will try to catch up.

I think I read later that one expert said what you did above, but yet another expert said that he failed the test miserably. I guess its one of those "my expert can beat up your expert" things.

The only trial excerpts found on the WM3.org site are the ones that benefit them. I want to read the ones they didn't want anyone to read. You know, the ones that they refuse to put on their site.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Jeana, I don't think Byers knew Chris had run off until Byers returned at 6:30. If Byers committed the murders, I believe he improvised when he found the boys. I've never thought this a carefully preplanned crime.

I think these were rage killings. There is no evidence of sexual assault, no evidence of "satanic" ritual and certainly no reason for robbery. (ETA: I should correct this last remark. Obviously, the injuries to Chris' genitals had something to do with sex in the broad sense of the word. I just meant there was no evidence of penetration/rape.)

Based on my admittedly limited knowledge, Byers is the one who seems most likely to have been angry enough to kill somebody. (And, of course, it was his stepson who was the target of the most vicious attacks.)



I promise you Devil's Knot is no more biased than Death of Innocents. And the former wasn't written "simply to bring attention to the defendants' plight." To date, it is by far the most comprehensive published account of the case. (I'm not saying you have to agree with the author. I'm just saying "DOI" doesn't provide the depth and breadth of info, and IIRC doesn't begin to cover the screw ups and deliberate cover ups by WMLE.)

Do you know if the autopsies of the boys are available?

 

[Jeana (DP)]

There is nothing in Miskelly's confession--at least nothing accurate--that he wasn't fed by his interrogators or that wasn't "common knowledge" in WM at the time. The police later tried to claim that Jessie gave them info "that could only be known to the perps," but this turned out to be completely untrue. The investigation was plagued by leaks, and small-town gossip had thoroughly covered everything Jessie said, including the FALSE info that the boys were sodomized.

I agree with you that Jessie framed the story in a way that made Damian and Jason more culpable, but we would expect him to do so whether he was telling the truth or merely saying what he thought his captors wanted to hear.

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I thought he wasn't smart enough to "pick up" on things that weren't black and white and placed within arm's reach? We can't have it both ways. We can't have him barely able to function slightly better than a turnip, yet still be able to pick up on exactly what the cops want him to say and how they want him to say it??? He knew exactly which side of the ditch the boys were set down and bled on and the luminol tests confirmed his confession on this point.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

That would be very interesting. IIRC, Hutcheson's story was always rather vague and, again IIRC, the police ended up discounting his tale. Wasn't his mother one who claimed she had been strong-armed by the WM police because she had outstanding warrants for unrelated offenses?

I don't know about that, but Aaron, the boy I asked about earlier who said he saw some of what happened to the boys, is the SON of the lady who tried to infiltrate Damien's little scene and get a confession from him.

Apparently, she (Vicky Hutcheson), got to be friends with Misskelley. After the murders, Jessie passed along very strange stories to her about a great many things. Eventually, Jessie introduced her to Damien, she gained his trust, and engaged in long conversations with him. She said he told her all about the boys' murders. She asked why the were picking on him, he told her "Because I'm evil." He never admitted nor denied committing the murders. She is one strange bird. There's more, but I don't believe one word of this stuff, so I'm not going to go on and on about it. Its about page 154 if anyone's got this book.

 

[Nova]

I think I read later that one expert said what you did above, but yet another expert said that he failed the test miserably. I guess its one of those "my expert can beat up your expert" things.

The problem in this case is that the quality of the respective experts is WILDLY uneven. What apparently passes for "expertise" in Arkansas is laughable.

The only trial excerpts found on the WM3.org site are the ones that benefit them. I want to read the ones they didn't want anyone to read. You know, the ones that they refuse to put on their site.

I agree with you. But let's look at it from their point of view: they believe the WM3 were convicted because small town folks in rural Arkansas were all too ready to believe highly inflammatory and prejudical nonsense about satanic cults and heavy metal music. Were I the WM3.org webmaster, I might well be reluctant to put that same nonsense on display for more people in Arkansas to read.

 

[Nova]

Do you know if the autopsies of the boys are available?

I'm not sure. If I get a chance tomorrow, I will try to look for them. (I'm still looking for my copy of Devil's Knot. This is why I don't like to clean.)

 

[kazzbar]

Hi Everyone, been catching up with posts.I am going to by 'devils Knot' as soon as I can get it...i keep thinking about this case all the time.
I wait everyday to read all your posts...

 

[Nova]

I thought he wasn't smart enough to "pick up" on things that weren't black and white and placed within arm's reach? We can't have it both ways. We can't have him barely able to function slightly better than a turnip, yet still be able to pick up on exactly what the cops want him to say and how they want him to say it??? He knew exactly which side of the ditch the boys were set down and bled on and the luminol tests confirmed his confession on this point.

Exactly which side of the ditch? Well, he had a 50/50 chance of being right, didn't he?

As for getting exactly what the cops wanted him to say, Jessie never did. LE had to settle for a confession that was obviously false and then the prosecutor had to finesse past the glaring errors. Unfortunately, the jury was in the grip of satanic panic and none too concerned with details.

As for how Jessie spins his story, as I'm sure you know, most 5-year-old kids know how to spin a story so they look like angels. (My granddaughter is the World Champ. She just turned 4.) Moreover, we know how false confessions are obtained: the interrogator says things like, "We want to help you, Jessie. We know you're a good kid. It was Damian that did that bad stuff. Tell us about that."

"Turnip" may go too far, but Jessie is not bright and certainly isn't sophisticated. IIRC, even after he was convicted, he thought he might be allowed to go home to his father. Since we know far brighter individuals have falsely confessed under the pressure of interrogation, that Jessie did so shouldn't surprise us.

 

[Nova]

I don't know about that, but Aaron, the boy I asked about earlier who said he saw some of what happened to the boys, is the SON of the lady who tried to infiltrate Damien's little scene and get a confession from him.

Apparently, she (Vicky Hutcheson), got to be friends with Misskelley. After the murders, Jessie passed along very strange stories to her about a great many things. Eventually, Jessie introduced her to Damien, she gained his trust, and engaged in long conversations with him. She said he told her all about the boys' murders. She asked why the were picking on him, he told her "Because I'm evil." He never admitted nor denied committing the murders. She is one strange bird. There's more, but I don't believe one word of this stuff, so I'm not going to go on and on about it. Its about page 154 if anyone's got this book.

That's what I thought. She was being investigated for stealing from her employer at the time of the murders and quickly agreed to help LE. Chargers were never filed against her. After the trial, she said she gave the testimony she gave to avoid prosecution.

There is no doubt that Damian said a lot of weird things. He was trying very hard to be Goth in a place where Goth role models were in short supply.

I need to look up who knew whom when.

 

[tezi]

Aaron's mother admitted to a defense investigator, after the trials, that she testified to what the WM police told her to say. IMO, she had to save her butt so she did whatever LE told her to do and say. She's not credible in my opinion. And Aaron's stories were filled with so many inconsistensies (sp), that they can't even be deemed remotely credible.

I was wrong when I said Jessie had the intelligence of a turnip. I will say he's not the brightest crayon in the box.

No matter which way this case is looked at, these boys did not receive a fair trial. They were railroaded from day one by crooked LE officials, most of which were under investigation by either the FBI or other officials in AR for theft of money, drugs, and guns. These murders could not have come at a better time for West Memphis LE. All the investigations into LE's wrongdoing went away when this happened. Now, Echols and Company are in prison paying for the sins of crooked LE. If Echols and Company committed these murders then they are where they belong. But, IMHO, reasonable doubt says they didn't do this. And whoever did the crime is laughing because they got away with it.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

The problem in this case is that the quality of the respective experts is WILDLY uneven. What apparently passes for "expertise" in Arkansas is laughable.



I agree with you. But let's look at it from their point of view: they believe the WM3 were convicted because small town folks in rural Arkansas were all too ready to believe highly inflammatory and prejudical nonsense about satanic cults and heavy metal music. Were I the WM3.org webmaster, I might well be reluctant to put that same nonsense on display for more people in Arkansas to read.

I can see that, but I lean more towards showing the public everything and asking them to make up their own minds. Anything less and it appears that they're trying to hide certain things. That's always a red flag.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

That's what I thought. She was being investigated for stealing from her employer at the time of the murders and quickly agreed to help LE. Chargers were never filed against her. After the trial, she said she gave the testimony she gave to avoid prosecution.

There is no doubt that Damian said a lot of weird things. He was trying very hard to be Goth in a place where Goth role models were in short supply.

I need to look up who knew whom when.

If you hand picked a group of characters for a story, you couldn't hit the target any closer to the center than these ones do. GEEZ, there's not one normal person in the bunch in this town.

 

[tezi]

If you hand picked a group of characters for a story, you couldn't hit the target any closer to the center than these ones do. GEEZ, there's not one normal person in the bunch in this town.

That is funny Jeana, because I am beginning to wonder if there is anyone who is normal in my little corner of AR! Besides me of course.:crazy:

In all seriousness, I think one of the reasons that all the ended up on TV was this was the biggest thing to ever happen to them. Have you seen some of the interviews with witnesses who later ended up on TV? Narlene Hollingsworth is a piece of work. She is the one who says she seen Damien and Domini walking along the service road on the night of the murders. And well, we've discussed Byers, I think his name should be "Teflon Byers," considering all of the crimes he got away with before and after the murders.

 

[Nova]

I can see that, but I lean more towards showing the public everything and asking them to make up their own minds. Anything less and it appears that they're trying to hide certain things. That's always a red flag.

Sorry, I should have been clearer. I understood your point and agree with it. "Sunshine is the best disinfectant," as they say.

 

[Nova]

If you hand picked a group of characters for a story, you couldn't hit the target any closer to the center than these ones do. GEEZ, there's not one normal person in the bunch in this town.

Ain't it the truth? If I didn't know better, I'd swear West Memphis was Hollywood's idea of the South. All the characters come from Central Casting.

Of course, as we now know from reality TV, turn a camera on and lots of people go goofy.